Spyderco Forums

Is a framelock stronger than a lockback?

I'm pretty sure a backlock is stronger than a framelock. i thing i read before that this is the list of locks in order from strongest to weakest:

Ball lock
compression lock
backlock
framelock
linerlock

Depends on the lock. Is the lock on the Manix stronger than the frame lock on a Kershaw Leek? I would bet.

On equal sized knives I would bet the frame lock is stronger.

Out of all locks I think that the Ball Lock and the Compression Lock are the strongest.

A fixed blade....

WORKER#9 wrote:A fixed blade....

+1 full tang :D
kd

i would stand behind frame locks since when you hold the handle, you are by nature squeezing the lockbar and making the lock almost unbreakable as long as the lockbar and the blade stopper don't fail

also, i've heard that over time, lockback knives would have a little bit of blade play

For folding knives, definitely the stop pins on a balisong. Other than that, my opinion would be:

Ball Lock or Comp. Lock
Frame Lock or Back Lock/Front Lock (whatever you want to call it)
Liner Lock

Of course it completely depends on the size of knife, the manufacturer and the tolerances they take it to.

:spyder: Who cares? An MBC rated lock will take 200 pounds per inch of blade. :spyder:

In theory, the balisong should be the strongest 'lock', after fixed blade.
In practice, most locks are irrelevant on strength, given that it's from spyderco.
The next thing to worry about locks is its durability and reliability. and Spyderco's got that covered, too. :D

Michael Cook wrote: :spyder: Who cares? An MBC rated lock will take 200 pounds per inch of blade. :spyder:

What's MBC?

nathan310 wrote:What's MBC?

MBC = Martial Blade Craft

I think you may be asking the wrong question. The theoretical strength of a lock's design is useless if the lock is made poorly and/or with poor materials. Many people rate linerlocks as one of the weakest if not the weakest, but I'd trust a Spyderco linerlock more than I'd trust a Smith&Wesson lockback. When well made, framelocks are exceedingly strong, but they have to be well made. I guess what I'm trying to say is comparing lock types is a tricky subject. It's better to compare locks of the same type made by different companies. It looks like Spyderwings already summed that up. :o

A lot of people are usually disappointed to hear this, and some simply won't accept it, but I couldn't name a single frame lock that is as strong as one of the stronger lockbacks.

In principle, the question is useless as you can engineer any lock to be the strongest lock. You simple take a certain locking mechanism, see where it breaks, reengineer that part test again....until you have the strongest lock. How practical that lock is, in the end is a different question, though. A framelock that is so stiff that you can unlock it only with pliers isn't going to be of much use.

But the question is not so useless anymore, when you consider what locks are easier to make stronger than others. The ball lock, the back lock and the compression lock would be among those......The framelock and the liner lock are not. If you compare the lockback and the framelock specifically then the lockbar is in tension on the lockback and in compression on the framelock. Metals are much stronger in tension than in compression.

You can try that for yourself. Take a coat hanger and cut a straight piece from it. Now push onto the straight piece. If there is even the slightest bend in the wire (and there always is), it will be trivial to deform the wire. Now take the same wire, tie a handle or loop onto the ends and try to pull it apart in tension. I would be very impressed if you succeeded. It is MUCH more difficult.

Back to the locks: Sal gave some numbers and he is always very cautious with them to avoid bad blood, but I think here on the Spyderco forum it is ok to repeat them (I hope). The Sebenza comes in at a lockstrength of about 400 lbs total. The Manix/Chinook at over 900 lbs total and the blade/handle length is about the same.

I agree with SoCal though that reliability is much more important than ultimate strength. However, there are situations in which that ultimate strength can offer a lot of piece of mind. If a blade is stuck in something, so that you lever the blade against the spine, and if the knife handle is in a position below the hip, it is *trivial* for a grown man to exceed 100 lbs/in.

I'd have to agree with HoB. Plus, if you look at the lock ratings that Spyderco has done, you'll find lockbacks, compression locks and (I think?) BB locks with an MBC rating, but no liner or frame locks, and while I can't say for certain, I'm pretty sure it's not because they're not trying!

Which Spyderco's are MBC rated is the next question??!!
If anyone knows please unfold the secret :p

I would guess;

Manix
minimanix
Para-Milly
Milly???
Chinook
Yojimbo
Lil'Temp
Persians???
Kriss??
Lava???
Karambit
(Waved) deli enduri???
New auto's???(citadel embassy)
Barong
kukhri
Native??
Shabara??
Civilian
Matriarch
Police??
Zowada??
Gunting
Jot Singh Kala
Pical
Captain
Phoenix??
Smallfly
Sabo fly
Spyderfly
Harpy??
Leafstorm
Rocklobster
Dodo
Rookie???
Superhawk



Baliyo ?? (LOL)

I bet the ones without questionmarks are and with i'm not sure about.

I would like to now.. What do you guys think of my list pretty close i guess?

MAT888 wrote:Which Spyderco's are MBC rated is the next question??!!
If anyone knows please unfold the secret :p

I would guess;

Manix - yes
minimanix - yes
Para-Milly - first production runs very likely not, later models: yes
Milly??? - no
Chinook - yes
Yojimbo - yes
Lil'Temp - yes
Persians??? - no
Kriss?? - no
Lava??? - don't know, with these very short blades it is hard to say and I haven't seen it mentioned
Karambit - I don't think so
(Waved) deli enduri??? - no
New auto's???(citadel embassy) - no clue
Barong - no clue
kukhri - no clue
Native?? - no
Shabara?? - no
Civilian - no
Matriarch - no
Police?? - no
Zowada?? - no
Gunting - yes
Jot Singh Kala - no
Pical - don't know
Captain - don't know, don't think so
Phoenix?? - no clue
Smallfly - likely
Sabo fly - likely
Spyderfly - likely
Harpy?? - no
Leafstorm - no clue
Rocklobster - don't know but I doubt it
Dodo - yes
Rookie??? - no
Superhawk - very likely



Baliyo ?? (LOL)

For me it's more about the maker that determines how I'd spend my money. Spyderco is one of the few companies out there that seem to put equal effort into making the various locking systems safe for the user. That said I hate liner locks, never liked em, and have a very hard time buying one. I have frame lock knives from two makers Kershaw and Strider, both of which I trust and have no problem buying because the lock is solid and won't fail.

Cheers,
Rob