Spyderco Laguiole/Ramco on the bay

[davec]

http://cgi.ebay.com/SPYDERCO-1994-LAGUI ... dZViewItem

What a beauty, wish I had the cash. Went for a nice bit of change but surely the rarest of Spydies.

[fellyjr]

http://cgi.ebay.com/SPYDERCO-1994-LAGUI ... dZViewItem

surely the rarest of Spydies.

I don't know the whole story about this knife but I do know that it wasn't made by Spyderco or sold AS a Spyderco, but was marketed by Spyderco. I personally think $535 is an insane amount of money to spend on a knife llike that, but it is pretty cool looking.

[4 s ter]

I don't know the whole story about this knife but I do know that it wasn't made by Spyderco or sold AS a Spyderco, but was marketed by Spyderco.

I'm not sure that this is quite accurate (althought some might disagree). The following text from posts by Sal and Joyce certainly indicates to me that they consider the Laguiole to be "a Spyderco" and that Spyderco had much more than just a marketing role.


**************************
Spyderco Laguiole

Spyderco produced a Laguiole "style" knife about 8 years ago. It was a front lock folder designed by Dennis LeMaire. We produced it in Seki. Steel was GIN-1. We designed our own "bee" for the traditional look. Quality was excellent. Came in Plain or serrated. Custom made leather sheath also had the "bee" embossed on the sheath.

It was/is IMO the best quality Laguiole ever to hit the market. We actually lost quite a bit of $ in the project.

Dealer support wasn't there and the model was dropped. One of the Spyderco crew just purchased one of the remaining pcs at the last Spyderco "Crew sale" last week.

They were, however, quite expensive. As I remember, Over $130 retail + sheath.

sal

***********************

Denis Lemaire was an creative French Canadian cutlery designer, maker, and friend of Spyderco. In the early '90s Spyderco made a French-style Laguiole model which Denis had engineered and designed. He was adept at producing innovative concepts and was well-acquainted with French influenced cutlery designs. A folder named the AKMA was one of his inventions and is produced today by Florinox Cutlery of Thiers, France.

The Spyderco Laguiole debuted as a high-tech version of a time-honored design. It featured:

~ A front lock (developed by Al Mar and Harvey McBurnette), the first ever lock-back Laguiole
~ A handle of black Micarta with brass liners
~ Blade steel was G-2
~ The traditional Laguiole "bee" found its' appearance underwent a subtle, buggy make-over
~ Notably absent were the Spyderco round hole and a pocket clip
~ Notably present, Spyderco serrations
~ It came with a tooled leather belt sheath
~ Spyderco's French design was manufactured under the Ramco label in Seki City, Japan
The Laguiole was discontinued in 1995-1996 and the MSRP at that time was $119.95, the sheath $19.95.

Strange knife, a French design, Americanized with serrations and made in Japan....

Joyce

[jaislandboy]

thanks for the background info David, I've often wondered /lusted for one after i saw Peter1960's photos of his.... :)
Wow it sold for over $500!

[kwakster]

To Mr Glesser;

Now don't start calling me JD, :D , but this is a knife i really want to see back in production.

When the first series was being produced, Spyderco, at least in our part of the world, was not yet the well known cutlery brand that it is today.
I think that this fact had something to do with the acceptance of this particular model by the general knife buying public.

You will not believe how many substandard Laguiole clones made from Pakistani beercansteel i have seen and handled, and although the Ramco-Laguiole cannot be compared to these, it wasn't recognized as what it actually was: the highest quality version of this specific knife model.

On a monthly estimate we sell around 15 to 40 knives from the Forge the Laguiole brand, one of the best of it's kind from the current crop, but in quality nowhere near the Spyderco version.
People pay a good amount of money, most of the time over 100 Euro for a knife which design hasn't changed much over hundreds of years.
No lock, not the best steel, and best of all, waiting periods up to two months.
For us to receive them that is, they still have to be sent to the customer after final inspection by us.
And that is really necessary, because i have seen blunt edges from touching the handle within, crooked blades, missing pins etc.
Many needed complementary sharpening before shipping.

And you know what, most of these knives we sell overseas, to Americans.

My suggestion would be to produce a new version with only the best steels like VG10, S30V, or better still ZDP189 being the latest flavor.
Produce versions with, and versions without bolsters.
Give it the Kopa sauce, meaning 600 with Micarta handle, 600 with Jigged Bone, 600 with Yellow Dutch Klump Hardwood :D , any way you get my drift.

I have a feeling it will sell this time.

Thanks for listening,

[Peter1960]

Thanks for making the whole story transparent, David. In my eyes the Ramco Laguiole is a Spyderco (without "Spyderco" on the blade and without hole).

Look at some other :spyder: 's and you will see, that exceptions proves the rule:

the Jess Horn jigged bone - it is clipit (without hole) + the Anniversary Delica - it is a clipit (without clip)

So the logic that "C" stands for clipit and a Spyderco has a hole isn't 100% - this for example.

So what, the Ramco Laguiole has no hole, no clip, no Spyderco stamp on the blade - but it's a :spyder: :D

[The Deacon]

Thanks for making the whole story transparent, David. In my eyes the Ramco Laguiole is a Spyderco (without "Spyderco" on the blade and without hole).

Look at some other :spyder: 's and you will see, that exceptions proves the rule:

the Jess Horn jigged bone - it is clipit (without hole) + the Anniversary Delica - it is a clipit (without clip)

So the logic that "C" stands for clipit and a Spyderco has a hole isn't 100% - this for example.

So what, the Ramco Laguiole has no hole, no clip, no Spyderco stamp on the blade - but it's a :spyder: :D

Peter, I guess it's a question of where one draws the line. My collection includes knives with aftermarket embellishment which some Spyderco collectors would not include in theirs.

The logic I use regarding the Ramco Laguiole is fairly straightforward, one can agree with it, or not.

The Jess Horn, although not having a round hole opener, does use an opener consistent with Spyderco's patent - a depression in the blade that facilitates one handed opening using the pad of the thumb. It also carries the Spyderco name on the blade.

The SKU's of the 25th Anniversary Delica, and the Kiwi for that matter, may not follow the numbering convention but they both carry the name on the blade.

On the other hand there are the Solo knives. These were designed by Sal, at least some had Spyderedge serrations and they were made for and marketed exclusively by Spyderco but most do not regard them as Spyderco models. They do not use the round hole opener, or any other opener consistent with the patent and do not have the Spyderco name or the "bug" logo on them.

The Ramco Laguiole, in my opinion follows that same pattern. How anyone else chooses to view it is up to them. I choose to consider it, like the Solos, and the Byrds, as a separate product line. I would also point out that Sal's post quoted by David clearly states the Laguiole was "manufactured under the Ramco label" which, to me means "not under the Spyderco label". As previously said, YMMV.

[sal]

Thanx much David, I appreciate your efforts for the keystrokes you saved me.

Thanx much Paul, Someone asked, "how we keep our records?" The answer is Deacon.

We tried, from the beginning, not to make any folders that did not conform to the Spyderco patent (thumb operated depression), and later trademark (round hole specifically located on a folding knife blade). This is done in an effort to protect intellectual property. Consistency is critical in this area.

Knives that we made that didn't fall within that framework, used different brand names.

Interesting notion Kwakster. The marketing question is whether they are purchasing the "made in France, tradition, spirit, history" or they plan to use the knife?

the higher quality and better performance from superior steels, only has value if you are going to cut something with it.

We could remake the model, add a round hole and sell it as a Spyderco, but it would be impossible to open it with one hand using the thumb....or we could redesign the knife so it does. That's what we need, another project. :eek:

As an ex beekeeper, I designerd the bee for accuracy so there wouldn't be a "is it a fly or a bee?" question.

That thing went for a lot of money.

sal

[Peter1960]

Peter, I guess it's a question of where one draws the line...

Absolutely right, Paul! I don't know the reason why, but for any reason the Ramco Laguiole is more :spyder: co than the Solos - as I wrote before - in my eyes. Is it Sal's bee :rolleyes:

...and the Kiwi for that matter...

As I wrote my post, I thought you will mention the Kiwi :D

[zenheretic]

I know I am less than an ankle biter for knowledge about the rising trends of the knife world, but it seems there may be a rising interest in the Laguiole in at least American afi.

If it is a solid design, as many have said, I would like to see a return to it. Kwakster has a good idea IMO. Even if it doesn't fall under the Spyderco name, it is a Sal design, and would have a Spyderco assured quality. Not to mention, it certainly is an ethnic design...is it not?

With the experience in short runs such as the kopa, Kwaksters idea of short runs of different woods would be quite interesting.

Kwakster, what do you think of SE vs PE for such a knife as the Laguiole?

[kwakster]

Thanx much David, I appreciate your efforts for the keystrokes you saved me.

Thanx much Paul, Someone asked, "how we keep our records?" The answer is Deacon.

We tried, from the beginning, not to make any folders that did not conform to the Spyderco patent (thumb operated depression), and later trademark (round hole specifically located on a folding knife blade). This is done in an effort to protect intellectual property. Consistency is critical in this area.

Knives that we made that didn't fall within that framework, used different brand names.

Interesting notion Kwakster. The marketing question is whether they are purchasing the "made in France, tradition, spirit, history" or they plan to use the knife?

the higher quality and better performance from superior steels, only has value if you are going to cut something with it.

We could remake the model, add a round hole and sell it as a Spyderco, but it would be impossible to open it with one hand using the thumb....or we could redesign the knife so it does. That's what we need, another project. :eek:

As an ex beekeeper, I designerd the bee for accuracy so there wouldn't be a "is it a fly or a bee?" question.

That thing went for a lot of money.

sal

What you said about the higher quality and the better performance from superior steels is very much, but not limited to, in the using.
As strange as it sounds, most of the people that buy these kind of knives simply want the best quality that can be had in this particular kind of knife, and they are willing to pay the higher price for it.
Many of them are fully aware that a Delica or a Native is a higher quality knife than a Forge de Laguiole, but it's the specific style they are after.
They want classic sleek lines without a big opening hole in the blade.
They want something that can and will cut, is socially acceptable, even when a bit longer, and can be had with a variety of inlays so they have a choice in this matter.

About the trademark Spyderco hole; make it small just like in the Hossom series.
People will need to open the knife using two hands which is no big deal for the targeted knife buying group.
They find the slower opening even more socially acceptable.
:)

[kwakster]

I know I am less than an ankle biter for knowledge about the rising trends of the knife world, but it seems there may be a rising interest in the Laguiole in at least American afi.

If it is a solid design, as many have said, I would like to see a return to it. Kwakster has a good idea IMO. Even if it doesn't fall under the Spyderco name, it is a Sal design, and would have a Spyderco assured quality. Not to mention, it certainly is an ethnic design...is it not?

With the experience in short runs such as the kopa, Kwaksters idea of short runs of different woods would be quite interesting.

Kwakster, what do you think of SE vs PE for such a knife as the Laguiole?

Most people would opt for the Plain Edge version just like it has been made for the last couple of hundred years.
But i would certainly experiment with CE or even SE in smaller quantities.

[JD Spydo]

[quote="kwakster"]To Mr Glesser]

Hmmm??? I thought I heard my name mentioned :rolleyes: :D But I do agree with the good brother that the design was a super design. You can certainly see some of the attributes from it in the Catcherman model. I really miss Spyderco not having a fillet knife in it's line up.

I also liked some of Spyderco's other off-shoot brands like G-Sakai, Solo and Moki. G-Sakai had a fillet knife that you can see on page 27 in the ALL GOD's CRITTERs 1997 Spyderco dealer's catalog. It was called the Angler GS111. It had Micarta handle and a 440c blade. Great thread :cool:

[lmilhan]

Take a look at the buyers feedback, and dig around to see other items that he has recently purchased. This guy isn't playing games. He is a knife nut, and I am pretty certain that price was no object when it came to this particular knife. As long as he got it in his collection, I bet he wouldn't have even flinched to spend twice that much for it (or even more).

[jaislandboy]

I'm very interested in a rebirth of a Spyderco Laguiole folder.....I came real close to pulling the trigger on a non- :spyder: one 4 months ago.....but after reading threads in the Off Topic section of this forum...I came to the realization that purchasing a "quality made" one would require spending a little more than I wanted to...and i read something about the blades in most Laguiole folders lacking a "kick" that potentially could cause edge damage when closing it....
so I held off on purchasing one...

If :spyder: can one day again produce a plainedge Laguiole Folder....at a street price of under $250 USD I would definiitely buy one..... :rolleyes:

[Axlis]

I got a naive question:

Is EVERY Ramco Laguiole model that looks like this (long tooth pick thing as it looks to me) that has the bee a Spyderco made one? How do you tell which Ramco Laguiole is a Spyderco

There is a shop in town that has about six of those sitting in a case, that have the bee (with a bee pouch) and look just like that. Can't remember the price, but it was not that high, and there was plain and SE.

[The Deacon]

Axlis, the only Ramco Laguioles are the ones made for Spyderco - Grab them!

[The General]

Find out if they are slip joints or locking models.

Look for the Seki City markings on the blade.

I doubt there are 6 of these out there in one shop at a low price!

If there are, I would like a plain edge one please!

Good luck! :D

[The General]

I'm very interested in a rebirth of a Spyderco Laguiole folder.....I came real close to pulling the trigger on a non- :spyder: one 4 months ago.....but after reading threads in the Off Topic section of this forum...I came to the realization that purchasing a "quality made" one would require spending a little more than I wanted to...and i read something about the blades in most Laguiole folders lacking a "kick" that potentially could cause edge damage when closing it....
so I held off on purchasing one...

If :spyder: can one day again produce a plainedge Laguiole Folder....at a street price of under $250 USD I would definiitely buy one..... :rolleyes:

The lack of a kick is a serious design flaw that has been adressed in a very complex manner... usually a but of foam padding or material inside the handle :rolleyes:

The other thing I dislike about the basic pattern is many of them have a VERY strong slipjoint action and it is one of the few knives that are quite frightening to open and close as a result. People who let the knife snap closed are usually treated to a lot of edge damage near the tip.

However, in its quarter, the design does pack just about the most edge for handle length of any knife I have used. I remember discussing this pattern with Sal in Germany a few years ago after buying a couple of nice handmade ones and I think he said the Spyderco Police model knife is the next knife with such a good ratio of handle to blade length.

Its a design classic, but then so is the horse and cart! I prefer a clippit with a super steel blade thank you very much! :spyder:

[Airlsee]

Oops, was just quoting a comment...