traditional african spydie? any interest?

[clovisc]

i'm curious -- who'd be interested in a spydie folder based on a traditional african design?

when i lived in zambia, i bought quite a lot of knives made by the chokwe tribe. they're a crucial part of the culture, as well as agricultural practices... people use the same blades to cut cassava stalks for planting, to butcher LARGE game, and to cut kitchen vegetables. it is said a chokwe man is not comfortable moving through the bush without a knife. perhaps the most interesting usage of knives out there, though, was in the circumcision camps, which continue in secret, even though they're illegal. (i was fortunate enough to visit some and talk about HIV/AIDS). traditionally, mukanda, or circumcision camp, begins with a song accusing the elder who performs the cutting rights of being too old, of having a knife that is too dull... he answers by saying his knife is sharp as ever, so bring forth the young boys!

don't have any of my chokwe knives with me in virginia, and i'm not too good at knife pictures anyway... but the design has a triangular handle, a full flat ground blade (forged from a large nail, or scrap metal), and a good tip. there are even indexing holes drilled into the handle, and a full tang through the handle!

thus far, spyderco's "ethnic" series (persian, karambit, kris, etc...) doesn't represent africa at all... not only is this the "cradle of civilization," and the birthplace of some of the earliest flaked knives and stone tools, it's a place where the same traditional designs HUNDREDS of years old are still used for EDC.

the knifemaker in my village, who was, at the age of 50-something, considered VERY old and wise, told me that a knife with a blade shorter than about 4" was useless. most of my chokwe knives had 4-5" blades, though i also had one the size of my forearm. i used them ALL the time around the house, and would also carry them in the bush, or while travelling. traditionally chokwes are said to be the finest knifemakers in the sub-saharan world... they refused to trade for knives from the portuguese in angola, because their traditional designs out-performed european designs.

here's what i propose... anyone else interested?

-- H1 blade (to deal with the 7 month rainy season chokwes face... they don't bother to clean rust off of their blades...)
-- 4" blade, 4.5" would be even better
-- full flat grind
-- nestled steel liners in FRN, to keep down weight, but to maintain strength
-- indexing points
-- strong enough for light chopping, heavy cutting, and aggressive slicing, but with a tip suited to detailed cuts.
-- a survival whistle in the handle... chokwes traditionally used whistles for communicating in the bush.

possible names (in chokwe):
tuuta -- giant bush rat (a clever animal said to be good luck)
mpoko -- knife
tanga-tanga -- a type of poisonous spider

as an "mbasela" ("bonus"), i think it would be great if an african-themed knife somehow benefited the people of the country from which the design came... i personally wouldn't object to paying $10 more if this money were to go towards funding sustainable development projects or HIV/AIDS education in africa. $10 is a LOT of money in rural zambia... if you even made and sold just 1,000 knives, you'd have a small fortune that would do an astonishing amount of good (providing it was paired with the right program).

anyone else interested??? there'd be nothing else like it on the market...

[Puyallupknifegu]

Hello Clovisc!

I absolutely love ethnic designs! I am very excited at this idea. You can count me as your first vote for this project in any format! :D

You are welcome to PM to discuss the project and see if I may be able to help in some way. :D



Tim

[Darkfin]

I'm stuck on the triangle handle--I just cant wrap my head around what this looks like. Could you perhaps sketch it out and take a cell phone shot? I'm just confused by it's geometry.

[clovisc]

"triangular"

actually, a trapezoid.

[Th232]

Definitely interested in the concept!

[Darkfin]

Like a Strider?



Ethnics are cool! I would love to see a Viking/Scandinavian Seax, Pukko or Barrel knife! I wish Ed/Sal would make the Persian with a more EDC friendly handle material. I am afraid to ruin the beautiful bolsters.

[John G.]

I've seen some "triangular handles" that were triangular in cross section that worked well. The left side was a typical flat scale, but the right side scale's middle was raised 1/4" approx 2/3 of the way up (forming an off-center triangle). Additionally, the butt end of the handle got approximately 3/8" wider/taller than the choil end using a simple straight line increase (ie: no fancy wavy contours).

The triangulated right side scale filled in the grooves in the bent fingers, and the butt-end flare made the knife more secure on swinging motions. Coincidentally, high-end antique screwdrivers also had triangular handles rather than round ones.

[v34]

We need pictures!
But, I like the sound of it. A knife grown out of use day in day out has an interesting history and a Spyderco interpretation would do any style justice.

[clovisc]

ok... maybe triangular was the wrong adjective...

but yes, kinda like the strider. :)

draw a vertical line 1 inch in length. about 4 inches away, to the right, draw another vertical line 1.5 inches in length. connect the top and bottom of these lines together. that's what the scales would be shaped like?

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friend,

i'm curious -- who'd be interested in a spydie folder based on a traditional african design?

I would suggest getting in touch with Ed Schempp. With his skill, craftsmanship and affinity for ethnic designs I would think he would be the obvious choice to possibly build a prototype...

--------
Hannibal

[griff76]

Clovisc, very cool idea. I am having a hard time picturing exactly what you are trying to describe. I don't know about the whistle being a part of the knife, but I really like the idea of a chunk of proceeds helping with hiv/aids education/awareness.

[clovisc]

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... cknife.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>


maybe this will help -- a very basic sketch of exactly what the original looks like... although proportions may be slightly different.

sal knows what i'm talking about... :D

[Ed Schempp]

I've looked at some traditional African patterns. Some of the more traditional patterns have very unusual shapes that will not lend themselves to a folder interpretation. Another challenge is finding a design that is recognizable to the general knife buying public. I'm open to all ideas and suffer the limitation of my experiences. Post some pictures and I will get inspired...Take Care...Ed

[Padawan]

I would certainly be interested, but for me a 4"-4.5" bladed folder is simply too large. If the idea was scaled down a bit (say, perhaps Para-sized), or a "Jr." version was offered, you could almost definitely count me in.

Another thing you might want to consider altering is the steel liners. If your concern is corrosion-resistance, solid FRN scales would be a better choice, and would help keep costs down.

[Stenny]

I would like a folding, scaled down scramasax. That would be almost too nice... Spyderco scramasax... waved! :D
But African ethnic folder... I would probably dig that too.

[clovisc]

I would certainly be interested, but for me a 4"-4.5" bladed folder is simply too large. If the idea was scaled down a bit (say, perhaps Para-sized), or a "Jr." version was offered, you could almost definitely count me in.

Another thing you might want to consider altering is the steel liners. If your concern is corrosion-resistance, solid FRN scales would be a better choice, and would help keep costs down.

ooo -- you're right about solid FRN scales! good call! :D

[cobrajoe]

Not to mention that solid FRN would be really shock proof, especially if you are worried about chopping.

I think it would be a great addition to the salt lineup, there is no "pointy" H1 selection for us land lubbers.

[Piet.S]

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maybe this will help -- a very basic sketch of exactly what the original looks like... although proportions may be slightly different.

sal knows what i'm talking about... :D

This might very well work to make a decent folder out of it.
I would love to see pictures of the originals.
Hard use and time are often the very best designers you can imagine.
Also I like their ways about rust.
I think that us rich Western folks are way to picky about it.
No manufacturer overhere wants their customers to complain about some brown spots, so stainless it must be.
OTOH, i'v never been in a African rain season and a rusting folder is something very different from a carbon steel fixed blade.
For the name I like Mpoko best, or would it be African Salt?

[Darkfin]

Stenny, "scramsax" literally means "food knife." I think you mean scaled down seax, which is what I put above. Your heart is in the right place though! :)

[clovisc]

the one knife-maker in my area, who was generally seen as the best in the district, refused to make a knife of any other design. he would say "this kind is the best, and what we use." i had a devil of a time just getting him to make me a knife with a 3" blade -- he said a blade that small was "useless." but eventually made me two. finding him was always VERY difficult... his village was pretty far back in the bush, and he was usually not at home. although, some days he'd show up near the road, carrying 30 or so of his knives on a big loop of bark rope.

he was kinda right, though, about the design being "the best" -- i was amazed at just how useful the knives he made were! i saw and bought traditional knives all over the country, and his were by far the most utilitarian.

yea -- it gets pretty annoying cleaning rust off your folder every single day. hooray for H1!!!

personally, i really like the look of a well-used, partially rusting village knife... :D