PE Sharpmaker sharpening

[Django]

Hi guys, what are some good steps to take when sharpening PE blades? Piet.S said in a different thread that he sharpens them 30* on the gray stones, then 30* on the white stones, and then a few strokes on 40*.

What have you guys found to be the best combinations for the best edge?

[ghostrider]

Most of my Spyderco's get sharpened at 30 degrees. The VG-10 and S30V steel can handle that shallow of a bevel while some of the lesser steels can't. That's what Spyderco sharpens them at the factory at and there is no need to change that.

The Sharpmaker instructions say to sharpen at 30, then 40, and that's good for other brands, but not necessary for :spyder: 's higher steels. Spyderco's ZDP-189 is supposed to be an even lower angle.

When I sharpen byrds, it usually depends on what I plan to use them for. They are done from the factory at 30, but my experience is that they have a tendancy to roll at that angle, YMMV. I usually back bevel them at 30 and then sharpen them at 40. If I'm just using it to cut paracord, then 30 is fine, and I'll sharpen and strop more often. They also handle stroping very well.

The angle truely depends on the use, and the knife. If your going to be using it for chopping, then you want a steep angle (and I'm not sure what it should be). If your sharpening a Spyderco Calypso Jr. ZDP-189, then you could probably get away with 12-15 IIRC, while A CRKT AUS-4 would probably be 40.

[Django]

So if my Ocelot with VG-10 has been sharpened on a 40* angle this whole time, is it ok to start on the 30* angles and go through the grey corners, grey flats, white corners, white flats?

Do I just do 40 swipes on each step?

What are some advantages and disadvantages to sharpening at 30* compared to 40*?

[ghostrider]

So if my Ocelot with VG-10 has been sharpened on a 40* angle this whole time, is it ok to start on the 30* angles and go through the grey corners, grey flats, white corners, white flats?

Do I just do 40 swipes on each step?

What are some advantages and disadvantages to sharpening at 30* compared to 40*?

No need to do the Ocelot at 40*. However, since they are already there, you might try doing 40 strokes at 30*, and then doing 10 strokes at 40. This is just an idea of mine, so someone wiser may know better. My thinking is that you'll still keep it sharp at 40*, while gradually bring down the bevel to 30*. Eventually the bevel will catch up with the edge, and then you can just continue at 30* only. If that doesnt' work well for you, then you could try 20 strokes at the 40* angle.

Depending on what you are cutting, you may not even need the whites. Most of my cutting is cardboard, plastic wrap, and paracord. I prefer a toothy edge for that so I don't even use the whites. If your cutting meat, or slicing tomatoes, then the whites may be of help.

The advantages to a 30* angle is that it will slice and cut better because there is less of an angle. The advantage to a 40* angle is that it will be stronger (that's why it isn't necessary with the VG-10 because of the stronger steel).

[HoB]

The smaller the angle, the higher the potential cutting ability.

Best you use the blackmarker trick. Color the edge black with a marker and watch where the black markings are abraded. There is really no use going to the fine rods if you don't hit the very edge with the grays. If you use the 30 deg setting but previously have used the 40 deg setting you have to remove the shoulder first. Only after you have the edge cleanly set at 30 deg, you would transition to the white rods. Doing some strokes on the whites at 40 deg after that, seems as if you are undoing your previous work, but in fact it actually helps to clean up the edge. You just take a few swipes with little pressure on those final passes.

I made a really crude and quick sketch to illustrate the three steps in a Word document.

[Tech a Billy]

Just a couple of things I have found to add to the great info above,...

I use a blue Sharpie marker instead of the black because it is much easier to clean up when you're done. An alcohol swab makes it disappear instantly.

Don't pull the end of the blade off of the stones at the end of the down stroke or you will begin to round off the tip. Try to do the last 3/8ths of an inch or so of the blade carefully, using the flats and a straight down motion. Stop the down stroke with the blade tip still on the stone, rather than swiping it off. I do this to keep the tip as pointy as possible, and to fix the blades that I rounded off before I knew better. :rolleyes:

Oh, and try not to hit the stone with the blade tip on the upstroke, unless you want a really tiny tanto.

Also, I've found that my PE Ladybug is great to practice on.

[Django]

I think I'm going to keep my Ocelot at 40*, but leave off on the white corners for a slightly toothier edge. Thanks for the illustration HoB.

And thanks Billy, I've already started doing that after I realized I was rounding the tip.

[spydutch]

Since I have and use fully serrated blades exclusively, is it wise to sharpen my serrations at 30 degrees as well?

Until now I've only sharpened them at 40 degrees according to the instructions. I get them ALMOST cigarette paper cutting sharp, but not quite.

All knives I use are VG10 or S30V.

And what is the best way to back bevel serrations? Should I use (very carefully) the brown stones or just stick to the whites(and excercise my patience :eek: )?

Thanks very much in advance

[Django]

When I get my new PE Dodo, how should I sharpen it? I've heard people say to only use the corners because you can't get the whole blade with the flats. Should I start sharpening it on 30* or 40*? Ghostrider, you said that Spydies come with a 30* angle, so I'm assuming I should keep sharpening it at 30*, right?

[severedthumbs]

sharpen at 30degree until you get a nice fine burr and then hit it on the 40degree a few times to break the burr. patience is your friend here, it takes practice to get it perfected. I like to rough with the corners of the stone and this use light finishing passes on the flats. I have also been having good results with making about 7 really light passes on each side once the burr has formed on the white stones.

[d.g.g]

Just follow the instructions that came with the Sharpmaker and things will work out fine. The 40 degree setting is the proper normal setting. You are only sharpening a teeny tiny micro-edge bevel. The only reason to go to the 30 degree setting is if you have sharpened the edge so much that it is blunting out. Here is a link that explains it.

40 degrees will be hair popping, paper cutting sharp if done according to the instructions. If you really want to polish the apple (or bevel) then get a strop/hone and some CrO paste.

http://forums.egullet.com/index.php?showtopic=26036

[ghostrider]

When I get my new PE Dodo, how should I sharpen it? I've heard people say to only use the corners because you can't get the whole blade with the flats. Should I start sharpening it on 30* or 40*? Ghostrider, you said that Spydies come with a 30* angle, so I'm assuming I should keep sharpening it at 30*, right?

severedthumbs, and Hob answered the question in question well. I would keep it at 30* and do a few light strokes at 40* to break of the bur. Or, you could just send it to me for safe keeping. :D

With you Ocelot, I can't say I'd blame you for not wanting to start over and re-bevel at 30*. I would still recomend doing as I recommend, and dow extra strokes at 30* every sharpening. That way, your gradually going to achieve the 30* back-bevel that is desired. Like Hob said, it will have better cutting abilitiy at 30*.

I do this with my Crossbill CE: I keep my Sharpmaker ready with the greys at 30* on my counter. On occasion, as I pass the unit, I'll take a few strokes (usualy about eight or ten) at that angle. This is just to set the back-bevel (the angle is set at 40* and is due for a back bevel). This isn't even touching the edge, so I'm still sharpening the edge at 40*, I just make sure I'm doing more work at 30* so the angle will eventually come down.

Hope this makes sense.

[HoB]

I totally agree with Ghostrider. No need to do all the work at once. Just do some passes on the 30 deg whenever you have some time, watch a movie for example. Over time you will slim out the backbevel.

[thombrogan]

Django,

Use the 30 degree setting for your Dodo and use a marker on the edge to know when you're hitting the very edge.

For the Ocelot, you can start off with 50-100 passes on the 30 degree setting with the brown corners and then go back to 40 degrees for your normal brown corners, brown flats, and white corners. It'll keep the area behind the edge from getting too thick and interfering with cutting. The corners exert a lot of pressure on the blade's edge, much more than the flats, so I use just the flats whenever possible and a light touch whenever not possible (though you don't need a light touch using the corners on 30 degrees for your back-bevel).

Spydutch,

You can use brown or even diamond corners on the 30 degree setting, but go slower and lighter (if you already ready go slower than a snail on sleeping pills and lighter than a feather in a hot air balloon, go slower and lighter anyways) and finish up with the white corners at that setting (browns first if you used diamonds) before going back to the 40 degree setting to smooth out the area a little better.

[Django]

Ok, sounds good. Thanks Thom.