Difference between "Fillipino Grip" and "Sabre Grip"?

[Kn00b]

Difference between "Fillipino Grip" and "Sabre Grip"?

I've come across both of these terms a few times either in reviews or referencing MBC. From the explanations I've read though they seem to describe the same grip though. Yet, I've specificly read mention of people preferring one over the other.

I've looked for pics and diagrams to no avail. Closest I've found is a pic of one and a description of the other that seems to match.

Can someone enlighten the Kn00b on the difference here?

[Monocrom]

Happy to help. I don't have any pics but the difference between the 2 grips is fairly easy to explain. A saber grip is when you wrap your fingers around the grip and lay your thumb down on the top-back portion of the knife-handle. (Or on the rear spine of the blade, depending on the overall length of the knife). Then you bend your wrist forward.

A Filipino grip is the same, but you raise your thumb off of the knife. Some practioners use a variation where they don't bend their wrist forward. You're supposed to use your thumb as a guide for targeting various parts of your attacker's body....

Honestly though, from what I've learned; the Filipino grip really isn't that great for stabbing an attacker. It just doesn't give you a solid-enough grip on your knife.

Found a pic of the saber grip. Normally, the knife would be single-edged and the thumb placed down flatter on the knife. A Filipino grip would be if the thumb was raised off of the blade, and pointed parallel along the cutting edge. The thumb would point where the tip of the blade is pointing.

Hope this helps. :)

[smcfalls13]

[quote="Monocrom"]Honestly though, from what I've learned]

Those were my exact thoughts when you described. Perhaps I'm just uninitiated, but the concept of not having all my fingers on my weapon just astounds me. It's akin to firing a rifle one handed in my opinion. Sure it can be done, but it's just not a good idea.

[druid]

Four years I have always assumed I would use the modified Filipino grip with my thumb over the top of the blade. It seems that most knives are designed to be grouped in this manner. Although when practicing throwing a box of the air and pulling the knife my back pocket and slashing at it I consistently naturally fall into the Sabre group so I don't know. I feel that in the Filipino grip if done correctly you're gripping with all your fingers and thumb pushes the knife down into your fingers and vice versa the knife cradles nicely in your palm. The Sabre group seems perpendicular to your Palm and thus is weaker in my opinion also some blades like a hawksbill seem naturally made for the Filipino grip.

[Monocrom]

The Sabre group seems perpendicular to your Palm and thus is weaker in my opinion also some blades like a hawksbill seem naturally made for the Filipino grip.

With a hawkbill, I've noticed that if you use a saber grip but don't bend your wrist forward, (until you're about to make the cut and you snap your wrist) you get better results.

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: The danger of the Sabre grip is that the space between the thumb and palm will collapse upon hard impact, causing a knife disarm.
Michael Janich's "modified Filipino grip" lays the thumb down flat on the spine enclosing the grip more completly and still allowing the thumb to be used for it's natural targeting ability. :spyder:

[pmel018]

There is one knifey-type who calls the filipino grip the "toxic grip". Never saw the point of it really. Every style of grip has its detractors, depends on the knife and your training I guess. I'm an FS dagger man myself.
Phil

[Monocrom]

:spyder: The danger of the Sabre grip is that the space between the thumb and palm will collapse upon hard impact, causing a knife disarm.
Michael Janich's "modified Filipino grip" lays the thumb down flat on the spine enclosing the grip more completly and still allowing the thumb to be used for it's natural targeting ability. :spyder:

Modified Filipino grip? I've been using that grip. I just always thought of it as a modified saber grip. Laying the thumb flat on the blade's spine definitely makes for a stronger grip!

[ruxton]

The way I understood it the two grips look very similar, with the sabre grip the wrist is angled forwards more, the difference is in the fingers which do the gripping, with saber grip the index and thumb do the gripping and with filipino grip it's the bottom three fingers and the index and thumb remain comparitively loose (thumb resting on spine of blade) using the thumb for targeting with a wiping motion.

[Clay Kesting]

Michael Janich gave a detailed description of the Filipino grip in this thread, sixth post from the top

clay

[Monocrom]

Michael Janich gave a detailed description of the Filipino grip in this thread, sixth post from the top

clay

I looked through the thread. Turns out I have been using more of a modified hammer grip, than a saber or Filipino grip. I keep my wrist straight, wrap all of my fingers around the handle, but I place my thumb flat on the blade's spine. For use against an attacker, whip your wrist as you start the slashing motion and apply pressure with your thumb. (Makes for a more powerful cut). ALL of the fingers are used to securely anchor the knife in your hand. Not just the last 3 or the thumb & index finger.

Also, with all due respect to Mr. Janich, I have found that a handle which tapers towards the back (or lanyard hole end) makes for a less secure grip. The index and middle fingers have more gripping surface than the last 2 fingers have..... I actually discovered this on my own, years ago, when I purchased the M.O.D. folder that Mr. Janich designed. I loved the blade shape and length on the Tempest, and carried it for quite awhile when I worked in a not-so-good neighborhood. But the tapered grip just made the handle feel shorter than it really was. I replaced it as my EDC because I just wasn't confident that I'd be able to hold onto it, if I ever had to use it against an attacker.

I'm certain the Filipino grip works well for Mr. Janich. I have a lot respect for him and his abilities. But that particular grip just doesn't work well for me.

[Michael Janich]

Thanks, everyone, for a cool thread.

When I first saw good Filipino-style knife work in action (videos of Dan Inosanto and Leo Gaje in action back in the early 80's), they were gripping with the middle, ring, and little fingers and allowing the thumb and index finger to float. It didn't make sense to me at the time, so I started experimenting with those grips and all the traditional ones. My research on Japanese blade arts also supported the idea of gripping strongly with the last three fingers of the hand.

Over time, I learned that the last three fingers are on the same muscle group and provide most of your grip strength. The index finger and thumb are "wired" separately, primarily for dexterity (that's why the index finger makes a good trigger finger).

Since nobody ever bothered to actively teach or explain he Filipino grip, my understanding of it, and the coining of the term, was based on analysis. As I've come to understand it better, I've realized that keeping the thumb on the back of the blade puts more skin on the knife and increases your grip. It also gives you a very instinctive index for the edge and point that allows you to hit accurately.

From that position, lifting the thumb to trap with the thumb and back of the blade is still very easy.

To contrast my current version of the Filipino grip with a saber grip, start with mine and a natural wrist angle. Now draw your thumb back until it's fully on the handle. You'll feel your grip open up as you do. You'll also feel the need to cam your wrist downward if you want to thrust.

Grip is a very personal thing. If yours works for you, good enough. After all, self-defense is outcome-based education at its best.

Stay safe,

[Dr. Snubnose]

The Filipino Grip which Michael describes is probably the strongest grip one could use to retain a knife during combat, the tapering of the rear handle will aid in this function regardless of hand size...you will probably have to cut, slash and thrust through meat, leather jackets, gelatin covered in denim to realize this....Doc :D

[untamed]

From that position, lifting the thumb to trap with the thumb and back of the blade is still very easy.

Mr. Janich put it very well. I believe that this particular trait, the locking/trapping component, that makes it distinct from the rest of the other grip styles. If you perform it without the knife, one can ever say that structurally it looks spot on with a Hung-Gar kung fu stylist's hand or an Aikidoka's "tegatana" with an engaged "Ki" finger; basically a natural leverage or transition point for a grab or lock.

While it was observed to be not as strong compared to a dedicated thrust as the other grip styles, it does still in some measure preserve bio-mechanical force transfer (by vitue of the last three fingers and the fleshy palm base).

Maestro Yuli Romo, like Tuhon Gaje, also executed this grip and I have many fond memories of wincing in pain because of his wonderful execution :eek: !

[Monocrom]

The Filipino Grip which Michael describes is probably the strongest grip one could use to retain a knife during combat, the tapering of the rear handle will aid in this function regardless of hand size...you will probably have to cut, slash and thrust through meat, leather jackets, gelatin covered in denim to realize this....Doc :D

I'm sorry to say, but with a bit of experimenting; I came up with different results, several years ago. The hammer & ice-pick grips were the strongest ones that I found for retaining a knife, during hard stabs. And the tapering towards the rear of the handle, prevented me from getting a good, solid grip. (Please keep in mind that I was using the following 2 knives for my experimentation, Mr. Janich's M.O.D. designed Tempest and an early model Spyderco Endura).

On the Tempest, my pinky was barely making contact with the handle. My ring-finger wasn't doing that much better. My middle-finger was making solid contact with the handle. My index finger was doing just as well. Two of the three fingers I needed, to gain a secure hold with the Filipino grip, they weren't gripping much of anything! With the Endura, the fact that it doesn't taper towards the rear, that allowed me to get a solid grip with all of my fingers. (Including the three that are needed for a Filipino grip). I ended up carrying that Endura, until the molded clip snagged on a door-frame and broke.

I'm not saying that the Filipino grip, as Mr. Janich described above, doesn't work. I believe it works very well; but not for everyone. Sadly, I'm one of those people for whom it doesn't work. Thankfully, I was able to find something that does.