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OK there's a very mad maniac waving and threatening with a baseball bat 32 feet away..Is he a threat to you? to those near you?

Well its finally happened! After all these years of trying to tell folks that 21 feet is too close to a person with an edged tool or any tool for that matter..its been verified and changed!

As former officer Frank Borelli shows in the latest ASLET magazine feature story..21 feet as accepted is definately too close.

The standard is now 32 feet.

WHY? Because it turns out the average guy can do that in the same time as the officer seeing the event, reacting to the event, drawing the firearm, and SHOOTING the firearm..

We are talking reality NOT in theory..thats why the distance was increased..after careful study of incidents it was decided that 32 feet is 2.25 seconds away.. If the bad guy is hit @ 21 feet he covers the last ten feet in 2/3 of a second and is on top of the officer...



Deploying an impact tool or edged tool is different than drawing a firearm in that proximity is important to use of the tool in defense..



interesting stuff!

Fifty feet is too close if Frank Olesen is moving in a person. I can barely get my Gunting out of it's sheath when Frank is moving in (during training only!). He is fast and it really demonstrates the damage that can be inflicted in a short amount of time (emphasis on short).

With all the variables that occur in a defensive sitution, I've always believed it was diffucult to codify a specific range of edge weapon danger(or safety).

Abilities and skills of the combatants is but one factor, terrain and enviroment another; all of which combine to make reaction time/attack range closure speed a very fuzzy calculus. That's why the more distance and cover(obstacles)one can get, the better.

Both Teuller and Borelli have provided valuable eye-opening work, but it's important to remember that the numbers are not absolutes. Moreover, reaction time and closures speeds will be very unique to the incident.

Also, just because a attacker suffers a motal wound by whatever means, doesn't mean that their attack stops in an second.

If a mortally wounded BG can continue to attack for several seconds, the difference of ten or twenty feet may be insignificant.

The lessons of Dennis Tueller and Mr. Borelli is that an a handheld fixed lenght weapon is not limited to simply arm-lenght's range. It's a good message.


Edited by - seth on 8/21/2001 8:09:30 PM

Seth: well put..you stated it really well!
You're right theres no set distance, nor ability to "see how someone will react" but it also as you said should up peoples awareness that ANYTHING is poossible in a situation..
Combat is never the same twice and impossible to script!
again,,
welll said!

Numbers are a guideline, but like many, I prefer to teach the overall principles of Sheilding/Cover, Distance and Movement. All equally important.

Through training and experience you will become aware of how close is "too close" for the given circumstances.

Weapon choice and deployment are things that many people go to before determining if it is even viable at the time.

Good training topic.

Steve

Edited by - SKS on 8/21/2001 10:46:28 PM

Bram,
Really enjoy this topic but everytime I see it ,one thing is left out,"how the officer moves,"every one I train with moves the same way"!It doesn't matter if it's 21 or not ,they all try to retreat in a straight line & draw! They lose every time!
jim

Jim,

100% right. Most forget to "get off the train tracks". <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

In reference to Jim's and SKS " get off the tracks" movement to evade: One of the best videos stressing the movement off the centerline of attack is Gunsite's Edged Weapons II. It demonstrates knife attackers charging/ambushing officers and how footwork and handwork can work together to clear the centerline of attack.

-Seth