Spyderco Forums

I recently purcchased a Ladybug. I initially, would like to purchase a Jester, but my local dealer does not have it. So I got the Ladybug instead. I kindna like it. It hair poping sharp out of the box.

However, when I start to use it to cut out a plastic bottle to make a cup for my GF to use as a brush washer (for painting). I found that there is a dent at the tip of the knife. Just a simple use of the knife and the tip is dent already.

That bring me to the point of the steel. I think Ladybug and Jester are good knife design for sub 2 inches. I has been around for quite sometimes. I deserved a steel upgrade for their product line.

Especially, when the new product line, Finch, came out. That is about the same price in the same market segment. Finch has better steel, therefore, I would assumed that I should have perform better than both Ladybug and Jester.

From the Marketing point of view, you are competing the 3 products in the same category, which will just lead to lowering the volume of the 3 models.

To get you out of this, you can either drop some product lines or make it a different market segment. And I assume that Finch is considering the lowest line in sub 2 inches already. That leave you no choice but to make Ladybug and Jester to higher market segment. Since for sub 2 inches, the high end is Cricket.

You have 2 choices to either make Jester and Ladybug to be very high end (about $100) or make Jester and Ladybug slip into the middle between Cricket and Finch ($40-60).

So these 2 choices, involving you to make them from a better steel and charge at a premium. I assumed that VG-10 is a good steel from the production facility in Seki-Japan. You can make both of them in VG-10 version and charge at a price range of $40-$60. At this level, the FRN handle and Stainless stell is a good choice.

If you decide to go for higher end, then the handle has to be change to something more exotic. That is your option, Sal.

To make simple thing a bit easier to understand, I am simply would like to have a better steel for Key chain knife. It is great to have a good knife in the people friendly format with me at all time. I like the Jester that it is very light and small enough that it will not scare them.

So Sal, if you get this message, please make my dream come true.

Finch? What's a Finch? :confused:

There was a short run of Jesters with burgundy micarta handles, but I don't know if they had better steel.
There also was a short run of CF Ladybug(s) with ATS-34 steel made some time ago as well.

dialex wrote:Finch? What's a Finch? :confused:

There was a short run of Jesters with burgundy micarta handles, but I don't know if they had better steel.
There also was a short run of CF Ladybug(s) with ATS-34 steel made some time ago as well.

Finch is a byrd LBK

Jester micarta (JBMP) was AUS6 as well.

Street price for the Finch is around $15.00, while it is $30.00 stainless Jester so there is already quite a difference in price points. Changing the steel on the Jester would increase the price, and I'm not at all convinced the average buyer would be willing to pay it. Key ring knives generally do not see heavy use, so the advantages of premium steel would be a hard sell. On the other hand, they often get abused , doing the very jobs most likely to chip the premium steels like VG-10 and S30V - opening clam packs, :eek: tightening eyeglass screws, :eek: :eek: and popping the backs off watches with dead batteries. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Beyond that, yes, you are paying a premium for the Spyderco name, reputation for quality, and warranty when you purchase a Jester or Ladybug. I can't speak for everyone, but I will continue to find that a price worth paying.

The Deacon wrote:Street price for the Finch is around $15.00, while it is $30.00 stainless Jester so there is already quite a difference in price points. Changing the steel on the Jester would increase the price, and I'm not at all convinced the average buyer would be willing to pay it. .

I mean the Finch VS the FRN Jester. Since the price point is similar ($21 Finch VS $19 for Green FRN), then it is almost definite in term of functionwise that Finch has upper hand for Price/Perofrmance. (except people that really like Jester look) Finch has better steel with stainless handle. So people tend to buy Finch more (as I said if they only look on function). That's left Jester hanging in the market.

So to make comparison less obvious, then Jester should move up the quality ladder.

Or else, why don't Jester use the sell of Finch? Manufacture them in China with FRN and Jester blade. Then that would Justify.

Do you see my point? If Finch can offer better quality at lower price, then Jester should be made from better steel to offer customer a better economical sense.

For Jester, since it made in Japan, we can use other option of AUS8 or ATS-55. The AUS6 should be fade away soon, since the China made steel is almost has quality about 440C or AUS8 at much lower price point.

All I am trying to say here is that Jester now does not offer an economical value as high as Finch. This will eventually lead to the slower sales of Jester and might lead to stop the production. And I do not want that to happen. I love Jester look better than Finch.

By the way, Deacon, you have a great Jester collections. I really love them. I will try to start to collecting soon.

I just started with Ladybug.

I'd like to see a aus-8 jester. The jester is my goto knife when I need to cut something and there is a lot of people around and you don't want to scare them with the full size folder. however I have to say that I prefer the blade shape of the jester over the finch or the ladybug. The finger coil at the end of the blade makes it very easy to control. Would I get one in aus-8 yes, do I think its necesary no.

Could you imagine how cute a carbon fiber jester would be. That would be a neat little knife

I dont think adding a higher end steel will help the jester. In fact it more more likely kill it off. I dont think the general pop is willing to pay $40 for one, i dont think i would. For that price you can get a cricket. The Aus 6 performs well as a light use back-up knife, and its both easy to sharpen and cheap to produce. It has the advantages i think you would need in this market. For cutting plastic and other items i would typically go with a larger folder. My ladybugs mainly see tape and envelopes.
Just my thoughts,
J

Irish Lager wrote:I dont think adding a higher end steel will help the jester. In fact it more more likely kill it off. I dont think the general pop is willing to pay $40 for one, i dont think i would. For that price you can get a cricket. The Aus 6 performs well as a light use back-up knife, and its both easy to sharpen and cheap to produce. It has the advantages i think you would need in this market. For cutting plastic and other items i would typically go with a larger folder. My ladybugs mainly see tape and envelopes.
Just my thoughts,
J

For $40, I mean the Suggest Retail price. So when you get it in street price, it should be lower than that. It might end up like $25. I compare to Benchmade, Benchmite, they are made of AUS 8 and sell at $35. The actual street price is about $25.

In this case, for Jester, If we upgrade to AUS8, then the price point could be similar as well.

This is just my thought...

Benchmade Benchmite for $25?!!! :confused:

Where have I been? I paid almost $75 for mine... and it has 154 steel and titanium handles... did I miss something? :confused:

(Not to go off topic or anything...)

I still ove the Jester, steel and all! Best keychain knife out there! I found the Benchmite to be a tad too fancy (and expensive!) to carry around with my keys.

MikeG1P315 wrote:Benchmade Benchmite for $25?!!! :confused:

Where have I been? I paid almost $75 for mine... and it has 154 steel and titanium handles... did I miss something? :confused:

Must be referring to the Benchmite II.

I mean Benchmite II. THanks Ritt for the clarification.

I've seen several references to AUS-8 as a possibility for the Jester. Isn't AUS-8 similar to 440B? Or, is AUS-8 a better steel that 440B? I hope I'm not throwing us off the main point of this thread. I look forward to your insights on AUS-8. Thanks.

[quote="surawut"]For $40, I mean the Suggest Retail price. So when you get it in street price, it should be lower than that. It might end up like $25. I compare to Benchmade, Benchmite, they are made of AUS 8 and sell at $35. The actual street price is about $25.
In this case, for Jester, If we upgrade to AUS8, then the price point could be similar as well.
This is just my thought... ]

If the upgrade was only to Aus-8 that might work. I am sorry, i thought you were speaking of ATS-55 or VG-10 or ever better. IF they could keep street cost down i think it might have a shot. However im not sure what the difference in cost is between Aus-6 and Aus-8 but i dont think it would be that much.

Sorry Plowboy,
Ive never used 440B so i am of little help there.
J

For a knife of that size, pricing is everything. Only hardcore knife knuts are going to pay for top quality steel in a keychain knife. The general popular will buy the cheapest(AUS-6) and be quite content with it.

Though it would be cool, I can't say I would buy it.

That's true for the higher price, might limit people to buy it.

That would be too bad for Jester though. I think with this pricing scheme, soon Jester will push out of the market.

Anyway, another alternative, change the production from Japan to China and using their Byrd steel. That might even lowering the price down to the same level as Finch. with better steel.

:rolleyes:

I must comment, Surawat you have an interesting view of market forces.

:)

Cameron :spyder:

Cameron23 wrote: :)
We Wanna See The Deadly Pinky-up-jester-dance!!!
Cameron :spyder:

Extensive study has indicated that a Lime Green Jester and a Pink Jester make the ultimate in Jester Dancing. :p

zenheretic wrote:Extensive study has indicated that a Lime Green Jester and a Pink Jester make the ultimate in Jester Dancing. :p

C´mon Zen!
Post that pic, show us THE dance :D :D :D :D