What's A Real Knife Attack Like?

[Jimd]

I was introduced to the ice-pick style of stabbing when I'd been in the prison less than a month, and a cold, dark, tired November morning. The victim happened to be about two fee away from me. At first, I didn't see the knife, even though it had gone past my head. I just heard a hollow "thwock" as it went through the inmate's shoulder blade and through his lung. Since time had slowed down (along with MAJOR tunnel vision setting in), I had time to think this: "Geez, these guys are always screwing around, punching each other. I wish they'd knock that off, it's hard to know when they're serious and when they're playing."



A mili-second later, when he pulled the blade out (it was about ten inches long, perhaps a bit longer), I thought: "[bleep]! They're not kidding!!!!!! Hey, I'm right here! They're not supposed to do this stuff when I'm standing right here! They're supposed to do this when I'm not around!! He doesn't care that I'm right here, so maybe he's going to kill me, too!"



This moment in time was perhaps the scariest moment of my life. The attacker had a shank that was VERY long, and this guy was built like a pro football linebacker, with arms that were larger around than my legs! I wanted NO PARTS of this dude! I felt as if, at the time, I could have jumped over the Empire State Building with no problem. I reflexively reached behind my hip where I normally carried my Sig P228, to find it was not there, since I was inside the prison. That was one of the most terrible feelings I've ever had, to know I needed someone dead like yeterday, and realizing I had no tools to do it. It was at this point in my life that I realized one thing: I'm very capable of killing another human, no questions asked. When the other guy's trying to kill you, it gets real easy. And I'll confess that I desperately wanted to kill this man so he wouldn't kill me. I wanted nothing worse in my whole life. If I'd had my pistol, I'd have squeezed off a three-round burst into his chest without hesitation. When I hear people talk about, "Gosh, I don't know if I could ever kill anyone", I tell them that it's easy when the other guy's trying to revoke your birth certificate.


The victim was stabbed four times in very quick succession. The blade went through both shoulder blades, penetrated both lungs, grazed his heart, and the inmate didn't realize he had been stabbed until perhaps 30 seconds later when his lungs began to fill with blood! Even though critically wounded, he fought his attacker, running around the food cart that we'd been taking to the kitchen. He picked up a metal lid to a large food container and used it as a shield to fend off further stabs by the linebacker.


We were all alone in the back of the prison, about as far back as one could physically get. No backup. Well, I would have had backup...but the officer that stuck his head out from B-Block Kitchen saw what was happening, and slammed the kitchen door, locking it.


I had no way of alerting other officers that I was in serious trouble (no radio), so I did what I was taught; I blew my whistle three times. Then, three more times. And finally, a final three times. I blew that thing like I was about to marry the son of a *****.

Now while this was happening, Mr. Linebacker with the samurai sword is coming at me with the knife raised. He stated, "Get the **** away from me!" No problem there. I did as asked. Oddly, what really worried me was not the knife itself, but the fact that it had the other inmate's blood on it, and if I got stuck even a little, I could get whatever disease the victim had.

He kept coming with the knife raised, as if to jockey for a position in which he could stab me. I had my hands up, and kept angling off his line of attack, and away. I changed direction several times to get out of the "line of fire", and it worked! He broke off his attack.

By this time, about twenty other COs were running toward us, and they couldn't see his knife, because he was facing me with it. When he heard them, he turned toward the herd and invited, "Come on, mother-****, y'all want some o' this?"

That was it for them. Every one of them stopped on a dime.
In due time, we surrounded this fellow and convinced him to drop the knife (hey, I wasn't going to tackle his *** and wrestle the knife away from him!).

I was interviewed by s State Trooper a little later, and then went to eat lunch. I did some serious soul-searching that day. I can't believe I actually kept working there. What in the name of **** was wrong with me?!

[naggalowmo]

wow jim sounds like ****. you got pretty lucky on that one.
are you guys issued any weapons at all like clubs or anything?
stay safe!

[Jimd]

Unfortunately, we have no weapons. They make us go through a metal detector every day on the way in. We're searched more often than some of the inmates are. Only the inmates have weapons.

[zenheretic]

There is a video on Danerd.com (warning some videos may be offensive to some viewers) that shows some guards taking down a prisoner. The film is crappy but looks real enough. The COs are in riot gear with shields and form a shield wall spanning the hallway. Behind them is one CO manning a bean bag launcher (to my eye) and maybe an observer/officer and maybe a medic (?). The inmate is kinda hoping from one foot to the other (nude) and appears to have been moping the hallway until he broke or acted up or whatever he was doing, looked crazy in the video. Anyway the COs move as one closer to the inmate. When close enough the launcher blasts the inmate and he drops like a sack of potatoes off the back of a truck. Then the shield wall officers converge on the inmate...end of video. I showed my step dad the video because I thought it looked pretty professional. All he could say was,"seems sorta excessive"....

Great story Jim, like anyone who examines the virgin warrior within, I wish I knew if I had what it takes (think I do) but I don't envy having to learn it as you did!

[Jimd]

I showed my step dad the video because I thought it looked pretty professional. All he could say was,"seems sorta excessive"....

Great story Jim, like anyone who examines the virgin warrior within, I wish I knew if I had what it takes (think I do) but I don't envy having to learn it as you did!

As for being excessive...I think anyone wielding a knife against officers should simply be shot with OO buckshot. But that's just my opinion.

As for "having what it takes"...I had no choice in the matter. I was caught in a crappy situation and reacted the best I could, wanting desperately to survive.

Every situation is different, whether it's a fist-fight, stabbing, whatever. Therefore, it's my observation that everyone reacts differently every time. There are no guarantees. Just because someone reacts perfectly one time does not mean they won't freeze up the next time. Just something I've noticed after watching the defecation hit the oscillating unit a time or two.

[zenheretic]

[quote="Jimd"]
Every situation is different, whether it's a fist-fight, stabbing, whatever. Therefore, it's my observation that everyone reacts differently every time. There are no guarantees. Just because someone reacts perfectly one time does not mean they won't freeze up the next time. Just something I've noticed after watching the defecation hit the oscillating unit a time or two. ]
Good point, I can't even get my actions to match perfectly in sparring so how could I hope for that when the stakes are higher?

[Jimd]

Good point, I can't even get my actions to match perfectly in sparring so how could I hope for that when the stakes are higher?

Don't feel alone; not many people can!

One thing's for certain: Mr. Murphy can and will make an appearance. That much I can say with total authority.

[zenheretic]

[quote="Jimd"]Don't feel alone]
Just have to kick Murphy in the jimmy when he shows his ugly head :p


What freaks me out is Daywalker doesn't suffer the tunnel vision anymore! :eek:

[vampyrewolf]

I realize that my short period of existance is nothing compared to some of you guys, but I've had more than my share of fighting. Sufficiently "trained" in unarmed, well enough to come out more or less even with 5:1 if not on top of even. Can even come out "even" with 8:1(meaning that I'm hurting but I guarentee that I caused enough damage to at least 2-3 of them to put them out of commision for a while).

Pain is temporary, Pride doesn't exist, Insticts must be tuned. Hit first, hit fast, hit hard.

I've had a knife pulled on me a few times, which ends in a pretty one sided fight. Fight the person, not the knife. Take out thier elbow or put an elbow in thier shoulder or neck... the knife is usually out of the picture... and can be done unarmed. With a large flashlight or baton it's even easier with 2' of range to use to bash the MF'er into submission. Pack mentality, the Alpha attacks. Remove the alpha from the picture and the rest run fast and far.

I have been clipped a couple times, so far it's just been jacket and jeans that get replaced.

I've had a gun pulled on me once(long story, I've posted it on here before), next guy who pulls one on me will have to get it removed from thier rectum, sideways... and then remove the bullets from thier nostals. From what I've learned since then I have been able to gather that a gun is deadly at contact range or where the MFer can operate in about a 10deg cone from thier center. Close in to a few feet and they have to swing to bring you into range if you can move. Buys seconds that could be the difference.

Chains and bats are "fun". With a chain, as long as you can avoid getting hit by the last bit of it, you're more or less fine. Granted, it's going to sting, but they hurt a lot more when you return the favour in addition to a boot getting planted in available flesh. Same with a bat, but the bat has a smaller arc and slightly more controlled. They hurt like a mofo if you get clipped. I've taken a few beauties upside the head.

Given a few seconds of forethought, and I've got my baton on me. Unless I'm on the way out the door to school, my 21" is on my belt, right hip. Even then, it's in my fatboy easy to get. Reverse grip, push it out and forward, it opens AS you swing up with it if it doesn't as you clear the sheath. Get a target, see what kind of force you can put out in an overhand swing compared to a essentially an uppercut with the baton sticking out the underside of your fist. Go pick up your target and do it again. Overhand, you have to draw, snap it out, and still bring your arm up to hit. Underhand, you just have to draw and snap your arm up with the baton trailing. Shots to major joints & ribs convinces ppl not to fight, quickly. Add in the fact that the opening shot will have a **** of a lot of force in it, and if it's going for a weapon hand you've just taken it out of the picture permanently. Can destroy a knee with it, or put some serious hurt on with a busted rib. My baton is WELL used.... sanded and greased, just glides in and out.

if you like to use your elbows, a baton works in nicely with reverse grip. helps to protect your arm from blows, and works as a force multiplier when you drive your elbow home into thier neck with the full force of your shoulders behind it. Granted you can cause some serious damage if you hit the carodid or trachia hard enough, but they drop like a sack of stones if you do.

I don't go out looking for fights, but I end any that come my way.

[spydutch]

How on earth can you CO's put up with this for so long?

Glad you came out of that one OK Jim.

Can't say it enough: PLEASE TAKE CARE !!!

[swissknife]

How on earth can you CO's put up with this for so long?

Glad you came out of that one OK Jim.

Can't say it enough: PLEASE TAKE CARE !!!

yeah.. i couldnt!

[Irish Lager]

Jim,
i dont understand how you can do this on a day to day basis. However i respect you a great deal for it. Take care my friend and stay safe. Lets hope this is the last of theese types of stories, i know its not likely but one can hope.
J

[Hillbilly]

I would venture to guess...

That he does it because thats what hes good at, and someone has to do it.

proof beit that hes good because hes alive.

Take care Jim

[Jimd]

How do I do it? I'm not sure. I refuse to let me family down, I have to pay the bills. Bottom line, that's it. I have responsibilities to meet, and I have to do the job to meet them.

And I can't lie; the job does get into your blood. However, if I could, I'd leave it tomorrow.

This stabbing incident was not recent; it happened a long time ago. For a few years afterward, I had flashbacks. My therapist said I had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, not only from this, but several other incidents that I was involved in. In another fight on the block, an officer was down with six broken ribs, we were surrounded by about 350 inmates, and he was begging me not to leave him. I stayed by his side until backup arrived. But that's another story that perhaps I'll tell soon.

[TheKnifeCollector]

I can not even begin to imagine what you go through on a daily basis!! That knife attack sounds positively freightening!! God bless you, and always continue to keep you safe.

[smcfalls13]

In another fight on the block, an officer was down with six broken ribs, we were surrounded by about 350 inmates, and he was begging me not to leave him. I stayed by his side until backup arrived. But that's another story that perhaps I'll tell soon.

That's above and beyond Jim, I can't even find words to tell you how admirable that is. I'd like to hear that story, if you have the time. Email me if you don't want to share it here.

[zenheretic]

That's above and beyond Jim, I can't even find words to tell you how admirable that is. I'd like to hear that story, if you have the time. Email me if you don't want to share it here.

Is it really above and beyond? Not to downplay the action as it is difficult to override the instinct to protect numero uno first and foremost, but I tend to believe that to stick by a fallen comrade in arms is rather expected in most circumstances.

[raven]

Jimd, I am sure it felt somewhat Like a Weight Lifted from your chest my friend, sharing that story with this "Family". It gives just a hint of an idea of what it is really like behind that wall. Yes, I have seen and experienced many stabbings and knife encounters in my line of work also. I have often said..........if it ever came down to it, "I'd rather be shot than stabbed or slashed". They Are Extremely Fast, Violent, and Vicious. A deep Knife wound/cut is very nasty and causes Tremendous Damage and Trauma on the inside (experience from having seen several Autopsies).

Like mentioned previously, Jimd is good at what he does as is DAYWALKER. Zen Mentioned that DAYWALKER doesn't have that Tunnel Vision anymore. I believe that comes from experience and remembering where they're at. Jimd and DAYWALKER pay attention to their surroundings. They always know where they are (aware of their environment), what/who is around them, what the inmates are doing, and what is in reach (scanning). They Pay Attention to the Training (when they get it ), and They Have to Remain in Survival Mode All Of The Time. From my experience, many people have been doing the job so long or been in their position for so long, they Develop Complacency. IMHO, this is how they get hurt, get their partners hurt, or worse. These fellow co-workers and "STUPIDVISORS" go through life always telling themselves and believing "It Will Never Happen To Me" :rolleyes: . and Ignore Proper Training.

Jimd, DAYWALKER, Simon G, and all COs that put it on the Line Everyday, Again My Hat's Off to all of you. And.........My Apologies for sending you Such Criminals.

Jimd, Thank You for Sharing, and reminding us to "Always Keep A Heads Up"! Remember we are here for you. Feel Free to PM me anytime bro. Take Care and Prayers Sent to You and Yours. Remember also.........The Lord Has Your 6.

God Bless :)


-raven-

[smcfalls13]

[quote="zenheretic"]Is it really above and beyond? Not to downplay the action as it is difficult to override the instinct to protect numero uno first and foremost, but I tend to believe that to stick by a fallen comrade in arms is rather expected in most circumstances. ]

To you and I, and most of the guys here, yes it is expected, and I would expect that from Jim or Chad or the other COs here, but I've heard horror stories about guys leaving their comrades behind, and it's not pretty.

I couldn't leave a man behind, but I know a lot of people who would just as easily leave me to the wolves.

[Ed Meinel]

But that's another story that perhaps I'll tell soon.

So, when is the book coming out? :D