What knife steel do you favor? I like your basic steels, ATS-55, 440C and the like, but I would like some imformation and opinions about the other steels that Spyderco offers.
I have heard good things about S60V (CPM 440V) and I was wondeirng primarily how well it holds up to use and how easily it rusts. It's carbon content seems very high at over 2%, and I was curious as to how quickly it would tarnish/rust with use.
Would you care for S60V as you would a 1095 steel, with extensive oiling and cleaning, or as an ATS-55 blade, which requires little overt maintenance?
Any opinions or thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
Keepin' it real...real sharp, that is.
What knife steel do you favor?
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Sword and Shield
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I prefer 154-CM, ATS-34, and VG-10 in almost all of my folders and smaller fixed blades. They seem to be about the best all around steels I have found for use and are relatively low maintenance. As for fixed blades... that's a whole different story, something like 1095 or A2 does a good job, but they aren't too fancy. I'm waiting on a couple fixed blades in more expensive steels to come in, and so I may start favoring them, but I have no experience with them as of yet so I can't say.
As far as the question on the S60V goes, it is a stainless steel, and I never had a problem with it rusting when I carried a Military in it. I just treated it they way I treat all my other folder, simply carrying daily in a pocket, wiping down on a shirt after use, and wiping down with rem-oil when it got really messy and needed cleaned up.
As far as the question on the S60V goes, it is a stainless steel, and I never had a problem with it rusting when I carried a Military in it. I just treated it they way I treat all my other folder, simply carrying daily in a pocket, wiping down on a shirt after use, and wiping down with rem-oil when it got really messy and needed cleaned up.
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vampyrewolf
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I have 4 spydies in my collection
3 ATS-55(ladybug, cricket, delica)
1 ATS-34(wegner jr)
I've only had the wegner for about 1 week, and used it on cardboard, which dulls the **** out of my ladybug... my wegner is still **** sharp after 3 days of it.
I prefer ATS-55 for ease of sharpening, but I haven't had to sharpen the new one yet...
We all start with 10 fingers. Those with Spydies have 9 to spare, Still need a thumb. Good thing I still have 8 to spare...
3 ATS-55(ladybug, cricket, delica)
1 ATS-34(wegner jr)
I've only had the wegner for about 1 week, and used it on cardboard, which dulls the **** out of my ladybug... my wegner is still **** sharp after 3 days of it.
I prefer ATS-55 for ease of sharpening, but I haven't had to sharpen the new one yet...
We all start with 10 fingers. Those with Spydies have 9 to spare, Still need a thumb. Good thing I still have 8 to spare...
Spyderco's own steel chart may be found at:
http://www.spyderco.com/education/steel ... 53V117BSC6
S60V not only has 2% carbon, but it also has roughly 6% vanadium. I'm not sure how the particulate steels work, but in molten steel, the harder the carbides, the quicker they form. Even in the particulate process, I believe something similar takes place. That means that the Vanadium makes a great number of carbides before it gets to making Chromium carbides. S60V has 17% chromium, just about like 440C. It is the amount of free chromium, after the carbides are formed, that determines the stain-LESS capability of a steel. S60V is, in fact, more stainless than S60V.
I must admit to having a great deal of trouble remembering the difference between strength and toughness. I believe that S90V at a high Rockwell rating is weak, hence quite prone to chipping of the edge. So, it is usually put out at about a 56-57 Rockwell rating, to make it stronger. (Or tougher) Even so, it still has many of the vanadium carbides, so holds an edge longer than most steels, with a lower level of vanadium or the other elements that provide the harder carbides, which exhibit greater wearability.
Does that make any sense? I thought I knew what I was going to say, but may have crossed my own wires during the process.
I believe there is a good steel FAQ, available at Blade Forums. You might check there. I'm sure whomever wrote it made it more coherent than the info I attempted to provide.
Do check out the steel chart, and see the various combinations of elements of which Spydero's and other popular steels are composed.
Stare
Edited by - The Stare on 7/13/2001 9:34:28 PM
http://www.spyderco.com/education/steel ... 53V117BSC6
S60V not only has 2% carbon, but it also has roughly 6% vanadium. I'm not sure how the particulate steels work, but in molten steel, the harder the carbides, the quicker they form. Even in the particulate process, I believe something similar takes place. That means that the Vanadium makes a great number of carbides before it gets to making Chromium carbides. S60V has 17% chromium, just about like 440C. It is the amount of free chromium, after the carbides are formed, that determines the stain-LESS capability of a steel. S60V is, in fact, more stainless than S60V.
I must admit to having a great deal of trouble remembering the difference between strength and toughness. I believe that S90V at a high Rockwell rating is weak, hence quite prone to chipping of the edge. So, it is usually put out at about a 56-57 Rockwell rating, to make it stronger. (Or tougher) Even so, it still has many of the vanadium carbides, so holds an edge longer than most steels, with a lower level of vanadium or the other elements that provide the harder carbides, which exhibit greater wearability.
Does that make any sense? I thought I knew what I was going to say, but may have crossed my own wires during the process.
I believe there is a good steel FAQ, available at Blade Forums. You might check there. I'm sure whomever wrote it made it more coherent than the info I attempted to provide.
Do check out the steel chart, and see the various combinations of elements of which Spydero's and other popular steels are composed.
Stare
Edited by - The Stare on 7/13/2001 9:34:28 PM
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sam the man..
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Joe Talmadge
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>I must admit to having a great deal of trouble remembering the difference between strength and toughness. I believe that S90V at a high
Rockwell rating is weak, hence quite prone to chipping of the edge. So, it is usually put out at about a 56-57 Rockwell rating, to make it
stronger. (Or tougher) <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
Hi, just to clear up the strength/toughness thing (I know a lot of people mix the two up)...
Strength is the ability to take stress without a permanent deformation. Strength is directly related to hardness. Typically, as you make the steel harder, you make it stronger. Think of it this way: is it easier to deform a soft steel, or a hard one? Obviously the soft steel. So softer = weaker. Harder = stronger.
Toughness is the ability to take impact without failure through chipping or cracking. Take two pieces of the same steel, heat treat one to be very hard, another to be very soft. Now smash them both against something hard. The harder one is likelier to chip -- it is less tough. And, to bring it all together, the soft one is likelier to indent -- it is weaker but tougher.
So, given a particular steel, if I:
heat treat it softer -> weaker, tougher
heat treat it harder -> stronger, less tough
So there you see the tradeoffs. I have a buddy who bought a gin-1 knife, but ended up really indenting the edge badly -- it actually got very wavy on him. He bought another, same thing. I talked him into getting an ATS-34 knife, which I knew to be harder and stronger. He has that knife to this day, and has never had problems with the edge. Even at the higher hardness, the ATS-34 blade was tough enough for him -- it didn't chip out.
Joe
Rockwell rating is weak, hence quite prone to chipping of the edge. So, it is usually put out at about a 56-57 Rockwell rating, to make it
stronger. (Or tougher) <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
Hi, just to clear up the strength/toughness thing (I know a lot of people mix the two up)...
Strength is the ability to take stress without a permanent deformation. Strength is directly related to hardness. Typically, as you make the steel harder, you make it stronger. Think of it this way: is it easier to deform a soft steel, or a hard one? Obviously the soft steel. So softer = weaker. Harder = stronger.
Toughness is the ability to take impact without failure through chipping or cracking. Take two pieces of the same steel, heat treat one to be very hard, another to be very soft. Now smash them both against something hard. The harder one is likelier to chip -- it is less tough. And, to bring it all together, the soft one is likelier to indent -- it is weaker but tougher.
So, given a particular steel, if I:
heat treat it softer -> weaker, tougher
heat treat it harder -> stronger, less tough
So there you see the tradeoffs. I have a buddy who bought a gin-1 knife, but ended up really indenting the edge badly -- it actually got very wavy on him. He bought another, same thing. I talked him into getting an ATS-34 knife, which I knew to be harder and stronger. He has that knife to this day, and has never had problems with the edge. Even at the higher hardness, the ATS-34 blade was tough enough for him -- it didn't chip out.
Joe
My current favorite steels are ATS-34, and 1095. 1095 Requires extra care, but I'm use to it because thats what I've carried since I was a boy. Plus, 1095 is worth the extra care because of it's performance. I need to mention, I have no experience with the CMP family of steels, nor VG-10, Carbon V, 440J2, X-15. 8A/440C are great all around steels, in my openion. RKBA!
Edited by - Alan2112 on 7/14/2001 4:00:06 AM
Edited by - Alan2112 on 7/14/2001 4:00:06 AM
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Sword and Shield
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I've always liked 1095 just as a very "traditional" steel. My Ka-bar and all my Old Timer knives are made out of 1095, and I find it labor intensive, but highly responsive.
The main reason I asked about S60V was that I am looking strongly at buying a Chinook and wanted to know how it stacked up to other knives I own. I am a responsible knife owner that has never had a knife rust or break, but I am leery of steels the first time around.
Keepin' it real...real sharp, that is.
The main reason I asked about S60V was that I am looking strongly at buying a Chinook and wanted to know how it stacked up to other knives I own. I am a responsible knife owner that has never had a knife rust or break, but I am leery of steels the first time around.
Keepin' it real...real sharp, that is.
