Hey Y'all
I'm not trying to stir up trouble for Sal and others at Spyderco, but I wonder if it might be possible to produce a sprint run of Calypso Jr's in a different handle material or color. (Maybe something along the line of the special Forum Military that was produced a while back). Although this knife isnt Spyderco's best seller, it certainly seems to be popular on the forums. Who else might be interested in this?
--Matt
Sprint Run of Calypso Jrs?
I think that hard experience with the BF Natives and grey Matriarchs has shown Spyderco that forumites don't buy enough knives for a major variation to be produced just for us, unless it is something that the general market will accept - like the CF Civilians and the bug-inlayed Militaries. Sal indicated that the Calypso Jr. doesn't have the degree of general market acceptance and demand needed to justify this.
IMO, the marketing strategies are somewhat questionable for some Spyderco knives. Sometimes--as in the case of the Calypso Jr.--your options are either good quality blade (e.g., VG-10) paired with an "inexpensive" handle (FRN) or "inexpensive" blade (e.g., AUS-8) paired with a good quality handle (e.g., micarta). What's up with that? This results in a selling price that's pretty close to each other. The ELU looking for a low cost knife is satified (he/she has two choices) but the other Spyderco fans wanting something "a little more upscale" are left unfulfilled.
Wouldn't it make more sense to do this: VG-10 blade w/Micarta handle or AUS-8 blade w/FRN handle (priced accordingly)? Such product planning would minimize the need for limited run requests.
Don't get me wrong, I love Spyderco knives and own a sizeable collection of them. I also have no dislike for AUS-8 and FRN--just a notion as to how these materials should be paired with the ELU in mind. I don't expect others to agree with me on this matter; however, this is one of my pet peeves that I had to get off of my chest. Thanks for listening.
Wouldn't it make more sense to do this: VG-10 blade w/Micarta handle or AUS-8 blade w/FRN handle (priced accordingly)? Such product planning would minimize the need for limited run requests.
Don't get me wrong, I love Spyderco knives and own a sizeable collection of them. I also have no dislike for AUS-8 and FRN--just a notion as to how these materials should be paired with the ELU in mind. I don't expect others to agree with me on this matter; however, this is one of my pet peeves that I had to get off of my chest. Thanks for listening.
Well, producing a version of a knife "Just for us" doesnt mean stamping the word "Forum" all over it. It could be (and should be) something that looks nice and would be desired by the general public as well, like the Military with the bug logo inlay. Perhaps even something as simple as a different color of FRN would be nice.
--Matt
--Matt
toothed,
I seem to remember Mr. Glesser saying/typing in the past that the Micarta version was a test to see if it would sell well enough to warrant the tooling necessary to make a FRN model. It's much cheaper to make a small run of knives in Micarta than FRN because the initial set up costs for a molded handle are so high. Spyderco did a similar thing with the Wayne Goddard Clipit. Experimental and sprint runs are more likely to be made of a material that can be shaped instead of molded (except for knives that use previously existing handle shapes, like the Matriarch).
I'm not really sure why Spyderco used AUS-8 on the original Calypso Jr. I'm guessing because VG-10 wasn't commonly being used by Spyderco at that point. Although the regular Calypso was VG-10, but I think that came later. I hope someone will fill me in on this, because I am not sure I remember it correctly, and I'm too lazy to dig through my older "literature" this time of night. I do recall that the Moran FB01 was the first Spyderco knife to use VG-10. I have found the AUS-8 on my Micarta Calypso Jr. to be pretty tough stuff though. I've cut heavy zip ties, wood, heavy duty cardboard, among other things and never had any trouble with the point. VG-10 does hold an edge a little better, but for everyday use AUS-8 is fine by me.
All that being said, I would still love to have a Micarta Calypso Jr. with a flat ground VG-10 blade (with the Boye indentation on the lock bar, and a more rounded hump of course). <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Paul
Edited by - Paul D. on 5/17/2001 12:07:37 AM
I seem to remember Mr. Glesser saying/typing in the past that the Micarta version was a test to see if it would sell well enough to warrant the tooling necessary to make a FRN model. It's much cheaper to make a small run of knives in Micarta than FRN because the initial set up costs for a molded handle are so high. Spyderco did a similar thing with the Wayne Goddard Clipit. Experimental and sprint runs are more likely to be made of a material that can be shaped instead of molded (except for knives that use previously existing handle shapes, like the Matriarch).
I'm not really sure why Spyderco used AUS-8 on the original Calypso Jr. I'm guessing because VG-10 wasn't commonly being used by Spyderco at that point. Although the regular Calypso was VG-10, but I think that came later. I hope someone will fill me in on this, because I am not sure I remember it correctly, and I'm too lazy to dig through my older "literature" this time of night. I do recall that the Moran FB01 was the first Spyderco knife to use VG-10. I have found the AUS-8 on my Micarta Calypso Jr. to be pretty tough stuff though. I've cut heavy zip ties, wood, heavy duty cardboard, among other things and never had any trouble with the point. VG-10 does hold an edge a little better, but for everyday use AUS-8 is fine by me.
All that being said, I would still love to have a Micarta Calypso Jr. with a flat ground VG-10 blade (with the Boye indentation on the lock bar, and a more rounded hump of course). <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Paul
Edited by - Paul D. on 5/17/2001 12:07:37 AM
Toothed - Your suggestion makes a lot of sense to me. Why not put better steel and a more expensive handle material together in the same knife? I would certainly be enthusiastic about more knives made the way my Calypso and Calypso Jr. (both in Micarta) are made. They just look and feel so rich...
Sal; is there any chance of new models being released with Micarta used for the handle material, or is it gone for good?
Jeff/1911.
Sal; is there any chance of new models being released with Micarta used for the handle material, or is it gone for good?
Jeff/1911.
"Well, producing a version of a knife "Just for us" doesnt mean stamping the word "Forum" all over it. It could be (and should be) something that looks nice and would be desired by the general public as well, like the Military with the bug logo inlay. Perhaps even something as simple as a different color of FRN would be nice.
--Matt "
Hi Matt,
The whole point of my post is that the general market will not support another Caplyso Jr. in whatever form. My sense is that Caplyso Jr. sales only just meet the level needed to merit their continued production. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if one of the two current variations is eliminated sooner than later -- just an impression.
--Matt "
Hi Matt,
The whole point of my post is that the general market will not support another Caplyso Jr. in whatever form. My sense is that Caplyso Jr. sales only just meet the level needed to merit their continued production. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if one of the two current variations is eliminated sooner than later -- just an impression.
This is just speculation, but perhaps the reason that the Calypso Jr. hasn't become a better seller is that there isn't that much (in the eyes of the general ELU) that distinguishes it from, say, the Delica. Both knives are of similar size and handle material. If I was responsible for stocking a store and I had to choose between two knives of similar size and handle material, I would choose the proven seller over the newcomer. Maybe if it was offered in a different handle color or material, then the general public may be more interested in it.
Just speculation...
--Matt
Just speculation...
--Matt
Hi Carlo's
regarding: The whole point of my post is that the general market will not support another Caplyso Jr. in whatever form. My sense is that Caplyso Jr. sales only just meet the level needed to merit their continued production. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if one of the two current variations is eliminated sooner than later -- just an impression.
Then I guess we better buy more of these while we can ..... great knife but not truly appreciated.
Tom
regarding: The whole point of my post is that the general market will not support another Caplyso Jr. in whatever form. My sense is that Caplyso Jr. sales only just meet the level needed to merit their continued production. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if one of the two current variations is eliminated sooner than later -- just an impression.
Then I guess we better buy more of these while we can ..... great knife but not truly appreciated.
Tom
Hi Matt,
The Calypsos have a design whose sophistication is not understood by the average joe who strolls into a cutlery shop. However much we cognoscenti love wide flat ground blades, the "average joe" is more interested in flashy grinds. Overall in terms of popularity, I'd guess the general folder market favours in order:
1. sabre grinds
2. hollow grinds
3. flat grinds
Spyderco will be switching some of its hollow-ground knives to sabre grinds to suit mass market taste (and knife miss-use).
Hi Tom,
I haven't actually heard anything, so at most I am just speculating -- no need for alarm or concern.
Edited by - Carlos on 5/17/2001 11:18:49 AM
The Calypsos have a design whose sophistication is not understood by the average joe who strolls into a cutlery shop. However much we cognoscenti love wide flat ground blades, the "average joe" is more interested in flashy grinds. Overall in terms of popularity, I'd guess the general folder market favours in order:
1. sabre grinds
2. hollow grinds
3. flat grinds
Spyderco will be switching some of its hollow-ground knives to sabre grinds to suit mass market taste (and knife miss-use).
Hi Tom,
I haven't actually heard anything, so at most I am just speculating -- no need for alarm or concern.
Edited by - Carlos on 5/17/2001 11:18:49 AM
As the proud owner of a Calypso Jr. for the last couple of months I have been reading the many posts concerning this knife. A lot of people seem to really love the way cuts and the way it fits the hand, but I keep reading that sales numbers do not justify further variations on this model. I too would love to have a premium version of this knife with burgundy or ivory Micarta scales and VG-10 or better blade. I keep wondering why this knife is not more popular and have come to the tentative conclusion that it is the name. You have a Caribbean dance party image (not that there is anything wrong with that) with a junior tacked on the end. Not the sort of image a lot of knife buyers have in mind when they make a purchase. It is the most comfortable (to hold and carry) and the most practical knife on the market IMO but I think the name is holding it back.<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Edited by - Terr on 5/28/2001 5:21:22 PM
Edited by - Terr on 5/28/2001 5:21:22 PM
It's true that a product's name will make or break ANY product. Knives included. What often makes
the difference is "consumer education" about the product. In other words a really good sales job.I'd
have to agree in the case of the calypso line...large & small. In the knife world the everyday market
is small, hard to reach & often dis-interested in the finer point of knives. Just ask most wives. Also
the fact that or children don't have the opportunity to learn the value & proper use of pocket knives ,
or knives in general, robs our society of a crucial skill of mankind's first tool.The forums most of
read will educate , advertise & create a small levleof interest on those who find them. However,
I doubt that the general public goes out looking for this type of "education" even tho they should.
The foolish people that populate the the anti-gun lobby think that knives present the same threat.
So let's dis-arm everybody of every tool needed to support everyday life. The gun isn't needed
anymore in most parts of the world but the knife......I wouldn't want to try to survive with just
my teeth and fingernails. Any animal on the planet would win that contest because they are
better equipped by nature. What I'm trying to point out in this rant is that really good knife
designs like the calypso will have a tough time selling as long as consumer education is at
the low level it is today. "We" all need to help with that.
the difference is "consumer education" about the product. In other words a really good sales job.I'd
have to agree in the case of the calypso line...large & small. In the knife world the everyday market
is small, hard to reach & often dis-interested in the finer point of knives. Just ask most wives. Also
the fact that or children don't have the opportunity to learn the value & proper use of pocket knives ,
or knives in general, robs our society of a crucial skill of mankind's first tool.The forums most of
read will educate , advertise & create a small levleof interest on those who find them. However,
I doubt that the general public goes out looking for this type of "education" even tho they should.
The foolish people that populate the the anti-gun lobby think that knives present the same threat.
So let's dis-arm everybody of every tool needed to support everyday life. The gun isn't needed
anymore in most parts of the world but the knife......I wouldn't want to try to survive with just
my teeth and fingernails. Any animal on the planet would win that contest because they are
better equipped by nature. What I'm trying to point out in this rant is that really good knife
designs like the calypso will have a tough time selling as long as consumer education is at
the low level it is today. "We" all need to help with that.
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sam the man..
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John Frederick
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I think that I agree with Mundele on the stores and that generally, the design is a little to "refined" for the average knife buying ELU.
Not likely that we'll pursue the disign further at this time for "sprints".
We used AUS8 on the test pieces because we were still testing VG10 with the Moran (1st VG10 production piece) and didn't have sufficient history to add the 2nd model.
We produced the FRN version in VG10 despite marginal sales on the micarta version, despite promotion. I (wrongly) believed the design would catch on. Never thought about the name being a drawback though.
sal
Not likely that we'll pursue the disign further at this time for "sprints".
We used AUS8 on the test pieces because we were still testing VG10 with the Moran (1st VG10 production piece) and didn't have sufficient history to add the 2nd model.
We produced the FRN version in VG10 despite marginal sales on the micarta version, despite promotion. I (wrongly) believed the design would catch on. Never thought about the name being a drawback though.
sal
This is an interesting thread for me. I just got a Calypso Jr. Ltwt. Haven't had a chance to use it yet. But, from my initial impressions, coupled with all the rave reviews for the knife, particularly Joe Talmadge's, I'm convinced that it is a fine knife. I particularly like the pattern of the FRN. It is, IMHO, easily the best gripping FRN/Zytel knife I've held.
I can't help but wonder if the name indeed might not be a factor in its sales. SHould that be so, it might be easier to take advantage of the name, rather than change it. IMO, color is the way to do that. At least to me, Calypso calls to mind a joyous rainbow of color, for some reason with a strong yellow influence. (I'm not sure that I like yellow much.)
Simply changing, or making available several colors -- the brighter the better -- of the FRN would eliminate any tooling expenses. It seems entirely possible to me that people might then buy it for the colors and name, then have the good fortune to discover what a great knife it really is.
My $.02 worth.
Stare
I can't help but wonder if the name indeed might not be a factor in its sales. SHould that be so, it might be easier to take advantage of the name, rather than change it. IMO, color is the way to do that. At least to me, Calypso calls to mind a joyous rainbow of color, for some reason with a strong yellow influence. (I'm not sure that I like yellow much.)
Simply changing, or making available several colors -- the brighter the better -- of the FRN would eliminate any tooling expenses. It seems entirely possible to me that people might then buy it for the colors and name, then have the good fortune to discover what a great knife it really is.
My $.02 worth.
Stare
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Clay Kesting
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That's an interesting idea. Clearly the Calypso Jr hasn't found it's niche in the market despite its sophisticated design. Perhaps coloured handles are just what it needs to gain the attention it deserves.
Sal, I guess it's time for me to start bugging Michelle about that run of burgundy handles again <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.
Clay
Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.
Sal, I guess it's time for me to start bugging Michelle about that run of burgundy handles again <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.
Clay
Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.