Spyderco vs Strider

[J Smith]

Who else would like to see Spyderco give Strider a run for thier money.
I am thinking of a Native with 3 3/4 in blade G10 front scale and a ti fame lock back scale.If this knife could be made and sold with a street price of about 200.00 to 250.00 I think the SNG would meet its match.

[severedthumbs]

that would be quite a knife.

[Jimd]

Who else would like to see Spyderco give Strider a run for thier money.
I am thinking of a Native with 3 3/4 in blade G10 front scale and a ti fame lock back scale.If this knife could be made and sold with a street price of about 200.00 to 250.00 I think the SNG would meet its match.

I love the Native. It's my favorite Spyderco.
Despite that, the knife you describe above likely wouldn't come close to a Strider.

Striders are a good deal stronger than many other knives due to their construction. In addition, the heat treat that Paul Bos performs on each Strider renders their blades VERY strong.

Strider used to perform demonstrations at knife shows in which they'd stab a knife into a concrete floor, tip first, and chunks of concrete would fly, but the knife tip would be unharmed. They'd also hack up folding metal chairs with their knives, with the cutting edge being undamaged after the chair was in many pieces.

Spydercos are not those type of knives. They're excellent knives for people who need cutting tools for everyday use. Striders are....a little different.

Still, I'd love to see the Native that you fantasize about; I'd likely try to get one.

[severedthumbs]

I think if Spyderco wanted to they could make a knife comparable to a Strider. I just don't know why they would want to.

[Jimd]

I think if Spyderco wanted to they could make a knife comparable to a Strider. I just don't know why they would want to.

Why wouldn't they?
What is wrong with having a knife that can take gross amounts of abuse and still save your life?

Picture this: You're in a life-threatening situation, and you have a choice between two knives (both of which are very sharp). One that is overbuilt and ridiculously durable, and the other that is less durable. Which one are you going to pick up?

[severedthumbs]

Why wouldn't they?
What is wrong with having a knife that can take gross amounts of abuse and still save your life?

Picture this: You're in a life-threatening situation, and you have a choice between two knives (both of which are very sharp). One that is overbuilt and ridiculously durable, and the other that is less durable. Which one are you going to pick up?

well in that situation the strider. but so far I have never been in that situation.

[sal]

Mick no doubt makes a good knife and Strider does have their following and market.

I do believe that some of the impressions ou have are in question.

CPM-S30V is CPM-S30V. We have found no evidence that Mr. Bos' heat treating is superior to our heat treater. We've used Paul, and he is good, but better?

If fact, we've received letters from customers wanting to know why our S30V seemed to perform better (?) that our competitors CPM.

Making CPM-S30V less prone to breakage is done by making it thicker. Thicker steel, thicker point, etc. This will certainly add strength at the expense of cutting performance. Slicing, poking and splinter removal capabilities are drastically reduced by making fat blades. Prying capability is improved.

Why a frame-lock? The lockback on the Chinook and Manix are much stronger than ANY framelock, by at least double.

The Compression lock on the ATR is twice as strong as a Frame-lock.

Spyderco's G-10 is custom made with 30% additional glass added.

Fasteners are fasteners. How big, how thick, how heavy is choice, not voodoo.

Spyderco is certainly capable of making 2 lb knives that will pry well. We've not chosen to. Perhaps, if the market is there, we may. We've always tried to respect the markets or our competitors, despite the fact that many of our competitors do not share that respect.

sal

[J Smith]

As far as the lock goes,I just like how the ti frame lock works.The compression lock is backwards to me.If it was set up like on the Gunting I would like it better,releases with the thumb.

Please start useing larger pivots again.They may not be any stronger but when the user sees the large pivot strong is the first thing that they think and small pivot makes them think breaks easy.
The knife I descibed above would bring Spyderco up to the level of Strider and CRK.Not that I belive Spyderco is that much below them but I see alot of replies in threads that someone is trying to trade Spydercos for Strider or CRK and someone will pop in and say you will not get a Strider for a bucket full of Spydercos.
The knife above would have a following of the people who want a SNG but can't swing the 400.00.

[RLR]

No need for a folding cro-bar here. If you want inderstructible, get a fixed blade. That's the only fool proof lock. I had an old German Hunting knife that had a thick blade that could chip concrete, split a 2x4, etc... but it actually sucked at cutting - the real measure of a knife.

Sal and co. are on the right track. Keep it up.

[J Smith]

The knife I an trying to descibe is one that is built like a Strider but has the thinner lines and cutting preformance of a Spyderco.The lager framelock,ti side,G10 Native IMO would be that knife.

[Phalanx7.62]

The thing I love most about Spyderco and this forum, is that people like Sal attend here regularly and receive/give input. I also attend several other forums, and it is a GREAT addition whenever the designer/maker gives feedback.

I love spyderco for the eclectic designs, wide variety, and thinking outside the box.

Spyderco could very well make the folder you describe, but do they NEED to? They could make somethings closer to an Extrema Ratio. Those are quite a bit sleeker than the striders.

I guess I envision a "super police" that has been fortified with vitamins!

Robb

[sal]

Hi J Smith. I believe the situation here is one where you "like" the features offered (frame lock, etc), or the "appearance" rather than they'e being "better".

I have no doubt that Strider followers would believe that you couldn't get a Strider for a "bucket" of Spyderco's. They are Strider followers. I personally cannot see any reason for me to carry such a heavy folder.

We could build the knife you speak of for $200 all day long, we probably wouldn't.

I would consider a Spyderco / Strider collaboration, but I don't think that Spyderco would just "go after Strider's market".

Strider is greatly influenced by Spyderco design, or have you noticed?
Clips come from Spyderco. Hole operers come from Spyderco. Strider is now using finger choils. Let's watch.

BTW, when we make a "Frame-lock", we call it a "Chris Reeve style integral linerlock". Something about "giving credit", so those newly coming into the industry have an idea of where these concepts come from.

sal

[severedthumbs]

right on Sal. you have made me a believer in lockback knives. I don't think there is any need for Spyderco to make a Strider type knife at all. keep the great knives coming.

[Joe Talmadge]

My bias has always been towards performance. Make it strong enough -- then make sure it cuts like a razor, is rock solid in your hands, etc. Not everyone has my philosphy, and that's fine with me, but I'm glad Sal's seems close to mine :)

Strider has done a pretty amazing thing, that people will realize in some years. In many circles, they've changed the way people talk about knives, and what qualities they value in a knife. It's a gargantuan accomplishment, changing the way people think about their knives. They've raised strength (and very cool looks) above everything else, and succeeded in it where others have failed. In every thread on Strider folders, people talk about tool marks and rough finishes ... but then dismiss it. Imagine 10 years ago, people saying finish doesn't matter on a $400+ folder! In various threads, people talk about the idiosycracies of the various folder generations, regarding lock finickiness, etc. ... but then dismiss it. This doesn't matter; strength does. Ergonomics don't matter either. And those old metal chopping tests were done on ATS-34 Striders -- nothing magical, just leave the edge thick enough that it's very strong (but, alas, doesn't cut so well), and it'll hold up. Any decently-treated A2 could have done the same, but with a thinner edge so it would cut better, but that wasn't the point.

I'm cool with all that, but for what I use a knife for, Strider has kind of turned the values on their head. For me, performance is the most important thing. Being strong enough to do what's asked is part of that, but I'm not willing to sacrifice cutting ability, and ergonomics, and good finish (which should get better and better as price increases).

It would be very cool to see what Spyderco would come up with, if they wanted to compete with the strength-above-all set. But even then, I'd prefer a more balanced approach.

Joe

[severedthumbs]

Also I think Strider knives are some of the ugliest ever.

[sal]

Thanx Joe. Good points.

Hi Severed,I thought the word "ugly" was invented for Spyderco or was it "fugly?

sal

[vampyrewolf]

if you waste enough time, you'll find reference upon reference to designing in the dark... just means ergos over appearance.

I'd much rather have a knife that I can use for 2-3hrs on end intead of something that looks pretty in it's box.

[severedthumbs]

[quote="sal"]Thanx Joe. Good points.

Hi Severed,I thought the word "ugly" was invented for Spyderco ]

why I guess you are right Sal. While I dont care for the apperance of a few Spyderco knives none approach the level of fugliness that Strider does. I had a few Striders and did not care for any of them, and I didn't find them all that comfortable either.

[Jimmy_Dean]

If I can just jump in here....now that I missed all the action :P

I, for one, don't need/want a Striderco knife. They are two very different companies with two different objectives. ****, I love Kellam's knives and I don't want them to make a Strider-ish knife for that! As Mick would say: There's a seat for every a$$. Diversity people! Strider makes knives that will stand up to abuse....which means it will have no problem by my side to open packages at work....but frankly, it's a bit of an overkill to carry all that weight and scare every customer with a 500$(can) knife when I can use my Kiwi to get it done.

Sal, they do give you (some) credit for what you have done for the industry. Keep doing what you do best and don't worry, you also have your followers!

Happy new year!
-Dean

[gull wing]

I've gone the folding pry bar route and left it for something that will cut.
(Mili, Para, Calypso)
I used a Lil Temp(440V) once to make a trough out of a gallon fuel can, worked great, still cut after.

However, Sal if you want to build a "stout" Spyderco I will probably buy it, because it will be fitted and finished well.