SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[Actinolite]

You really just have to find out. Serrations work awesome for me but that doesn't mean you're doing something wrong if your experiences differ. They definitely aren't for everyone and they shouldn't be. What you cut the most and how you like to sharpen and even how you use the knife play a part in all this.

When I made this thread I was learning about serration grind geometry and I was excited to share what I saw and I hoped that others would see the benefits that I saw. Now 5 years later I'm not sure if I accomplished that or just turned this into a neverending debate about which is best.

I found your original post fascinating, which was part of the reason I decided to try serrated. Thanks for that. Your effort was much appreciated.

[Wartstein]

When this thread first posted, I didn't have any serrated pocket knives--kitchen serrated don't count. Since then, I've purchased four. I've found some real advantages to serrated edges in select circumstances, but I haven't found them compelling for EDC. Not yet, anyway, because I haven't really used any for EDC. But I'm about to find out.

• My first was a Dragonfly 2 Salt SE. I usually keep it in my truck, where it is useful for cutting rope, etc, while not rusting. I didn't like using it as much as using my DF2 Wharncliffe k390, so I ended up not carrying it, but my truck is a good place for it.
• My second was a larger Salt 2 SE, a Wharncliffe version of the Delica. I occasionally carry it to the shore in case a rust-free knife would be useful in salt water. But the knife is awkward to carry in pocket because of its width. Usually, I keep it in my shop.
•My third was a Byrd Hawkbill. This is even more awkward to carry than the Salt 2, but it's very useful in the yard. It's easier to carry than shears for little jobs, but clearly shears are better for serious trimming/pruning jobs. Still, when in the yard, I have it with me.
• Finally, my latest is a Lil' Native SE. It's a standard shape blade, S30V. It carries exactly like the Lil' Native I've been carrying daily for months (which is currently my favorite 5th pocket/EDC). Will the serrated edges be more useful -- or as useful -- than plain edge?

I'll post my observations in a few months.

Out of the knives listed I only have experience with the Salt 2 SE (but with "regular", not wharnie blade) - and while I do like it, its serrations are not the best representatives of what I am personally looking for with "teeth" (too pointy and "aggressive")

My personal advice for trying out "good" (subjectively!) serrations in an affordable and true workhorse Spydie would still be the Endela SE: If you don´t prefer this model with teeth over its PE version, then imo you can be pretty sure that serrations are just not for you...

[JayHenMac]

Serrations on my Endela get better everyday. I am no longer trying to soften them. I just carry, use, and touch it up every now and then. A handful of passes at 15 degrees then a couple at 20. Followed by one on the reverse side nearly flat to the rod.

Eventually i'll reset the whole angle. Little bit at a time.

[Actinolite]

Out of the knives listed I only have experience with the Salt 2 SE (but with "regular", not wharnie blade) - and while I do like it, its serrations are not the best representatives of what I am personally looking for with "teeth" (too pointy and "aggressive")

My personal advice for trying out "good" (subjectively!) serrations in an affordable and true workhorse Spydie would still be the Endela SE: If you don´t prefer this model with teeth over its PE version, then imo you can be pretty sure that serrations are just not for you...

This is very interesting. You must be talking about subtle differences in shape that aren’t apparent in pictures. When I look at photos of the Salt SE vs Endela SE, the serrations don’t look different to me. So at this point, I’ll have to take your word for them being different.

I do know that serration shape has very different effect on a couple kitchen knives I have. My old bread knife had sharp teeth. It successfully cut bread, but the sharp teeth had more of a sawing than slicing effect. The result was thick slices to prevent tearing the bread apart. By contrast, my Japanese SD bread knife has smoothly rounded teeth and allows very thin bread slices.

I’ll continue using my SE knives for the rest of the month and make a decision after that.

Thanks for the information. I much appreciate it.

[RustyIron]

I do know that serration shape has very different effect on a couple kitchen knives I have. My old bread knife had sharp teeth. It successfully cut bread, but the sharp teeth had more of a sawing than slicing effect. The result was thick slices to prevent tearing the bread apart. By contrast, my Japanese SD bread knife has smoothly rounded teeth and allows very thin bread slices.

Since you brought it up, maybe someone can clarify what's "best." Any culinary experts here?

I keep my kitchen knives pretty darned sharp, regardless of the edge style. For a short time I played around using a plain edge on my bread. It was like Luke's light saber going through Darth Vader's arm. But I thought the cut was TOO clean. The surface of the bread was as if it was polished with 0.5 micron diamond slurry, and I didn't care for it.

My serrated bread knife is sharp enough where if you accidentally touch it, your bread will be red. When cutting through bread, it leaves the surface a little more "rugged," like 80 grit sandpaper. I find this more palatable. It's just my opinion.

[Wartstein]

...

This is very interesting. You must be talking about subtle differences in shape that aren’t apparent in pictures. When I look at photos of the Salt SE vs Endela SE, the serrations don’t look different to me. So at this point, I’ll have to take your word for them being different.

I do know that serration shape has very different effect on a couple kitchen knives I have. My old bread knife had sharp teeth. It successfully cut bread, but the sharp teeth had more of a sawing than slicing effect. The result was thick slices to prevent tearing the bread apart. By contrast, my Japanese SD bread knife has smoothly rounded teeth and allows very thin bread slices.

I’ll continue using my SE knives for the rest of the month and make a decision after that.

Thanks for the information. I much appreciate it.

You actually don´t have to just take my word for it, cause the differences in the serration shapes of Salt 2 and Endela are not that subtle and ARE apparent in pictures - I´ll post a comparison pic below (top: Salt 2 SE, bottom EndelaSE).

I think it is clear to see that the Salts serrations are pointier, deeper, and "more aggressive then the shallow Endela serrations.

A pretty substantial difference, that can really be felt in use:
- Endela SE: What I prefer, the "better PE" like in better in pretty much any task than PE - slices better, initiates cuts better due to the points, "grabs" material and "attacks" it from different angles while not being "snaggy" and so on
- Salt SE: A bit too pointy (will get better over time with shapening), CAN snag and so on

[vivi]

I do know that serration shape has very different effect on a couple kitchen knives I have. My old bread knife had sharp teeth. It successfully cut bread, but the sharp teeth had more of a sawing than slicing effect. The result was thick slices to prevent tearing the bread apart. By contrast, my Japanese SD bread knife has smoothly rounded teeth and allows very thin bread slices.

Since you brought it up, maybe someone can clarify what's "best." Any culinary experts here?

I keep my kitchen knives pretty darned sharp, regardless of the edge style. For a short time I played around using a plain edge on my bread. It was like Luke's light saber going through Darth Vader's arm. But I thought the cut was TOO clean. The surface of the bread was as if it was polished with 0.5 micron diamond slurry, and I didn't care for it.

My serrated bread knife is sharp enough where if you accidentally touch it, your bread will be red. When cutting through bread, it leaves the surface a little more "rugged," like 80 grit sandpaper. I find this more palatable. It's just my opinion.

PE chef knife sharpened to 120 grit makes a killer bread knife. Certainly won't leave a 0.5 micron finish on a slice

i reach for my serrated bread knife for breads with a thick, hard crust though. but i dont each much of those. I like the coarse PE chefs for the softer loaves of bread we home bake, slicing crostinis at work, etc.

[Wartstein]

This is very interesting. You must be talking about subtle differences in shape that aren’t apparent in pictures. When I look at photos of the Salt SE vs Endela SE, the serrations don’t look different to me. So at this point, I’ll have to take your word for them being different.
......
I’ll continue using my SE knives for the rest of the month and make a decision after that.

Added to my post above:

I think this highlights a bit why many still not see how good serrations really can be:

If one has not really looked into the matter and actually compared different shapes in use, they might look "the same" at first glance in pictures... while, when looking closer, there is a ton of difference in serration shapes as David perfectly explains in the very first post of this thread.

Imo if one really wants to know what the preference for serrations also among experienced Spydie -users is all about, they probably should try one of the always recommended models like Caribbean SE, Endela SE, Stretch XL SE, Chaparral SE...

As an analogy:
If one never tried PE, different PE grinds might also look "the same" to them - and they might try a 50 degree inclusive, polished edge and write PE off after that.
While for example a 30 degree incl. coarse edge might totally have convinced them...

[RustyIron]

PE chef knife sharpened to 120 grit makes a killer bread knife.

I'll experiment some more, with a more open mind.
With a big chef's knife, it's easier to make a perfectly flat slice.
Thanks.

[Wartstein]

PE chef knife sharpened to 120 grit makes a killer bread knife.

I'll experiment some more, with a more open mind.
With a big chef's knife, it's easier to make a perfectly flat slice.
Thanks.

Said it before:

@vivi actually was probably the main proponent that made me try and consequently prefer SE back when he himself was into "teeth"...

Wonder if the same could happen with the coarse "vivi edge" if I looked even more deeply into it... (I sure tried my own basic versions of low grit edges and they work surprisingly well for me - but I still prefer SE)... I mean no one can deny that he really knows what he´s talking about and says things as they are.

[RustyIron]

sure tried my own basic versions of low grit edges and they work surprisingly well for me - but I still prefer SE

Just out of curiosity, I went down to make breakfast and sliced a chunk of bread using the gyuto. The cut was exceedingly smooth. When compared to the slice made with the serrated blade, the difference was noticeable, but not dramatic. Now I'm curious if I can get a coarser surface on the bread if I use more of a sawing motion or different type of serrations. I don't eat a lot of bread, so this little experiment might take a couple weeks. There's not going to be a right or wrong, it's going to be a matter of personal preference.

Monet liked a rounded hogs hair brush. Renoir preferred pointier sable hair brushes. Was one painter right and the other wrong?

[Actinolite]

You actually don´t have to just take my word for it, cause the differences in the serration shapes of Salt 2 and Endela are not that subtle and ARE apparent in pictures - I´ll post a comparison pic below (top: Salt 2 SE, bottom EndelaSE).

I think it is clear to see that the Salts serrations are pointier, deeper, and "more aggressive then the shallow Endela serrations.

A pretty substantial difference, that can really be felt in use:
- Endela SE: What I prefer, the "better PE" like in better in pretty much any task than PE - slices better, initiates cuts better due to the points, "grabs" material and "attacks" it from different angles while not being "snaggy" and so on
- Salt SE: A bit too pointy (will get better over time with shapening), CAN snag and so on

Your close up picture makes it more visible. I don't have any of the preferred SE knives, but I looked closely at the ones I have.

The Dragonfly Salt and the Salt 2 serrations are about the same, and both are pointier and deeper looking like the Salt you have in your photo. The other two, a Lil Native and a Byrd Hawkbill, the serrations tips are a bit rounder and the included small angle between points appears less acute than with the Salts. I'll break out my camera next week and take a couple pics. Meanwhile, I never wanted an Endela (it's big enough to be a potential legal issue in in my state), but I've been wanting to try a Chaparral. So I'll look for one at a decent price and find out what a better SE feels like in use.

[Jumpin'Spyder]

Hi all,

A Chaparral SE 2 weeks old, very lightly used, mostly paper and nothing hard: It seems really really chipped for the use it had.



Maybe I'm not accustomed to the CTS-XHP behaviour ... Is it a so weak steel?

BTW I would like to sharpen like many of you suggested here, I have the SharpMaker with CBN, how have I to go with it?

I have also the Work Sharp Precision Adjust Elite Sharpener, complete set: could be useful?

I'm asking beacause I'm afraid to ruin one of my Chaps SE , that never come back again

Thanks guys

[dsvirsky]

I wonder if maybe your Chap came with a burr on the edge? I've used mine on all sorts of cardboard without any edge damage. CTS-XHP is a good steel for serrations, in my experience. I sharpen mine using either diamond or CBN on the bevel and ceramic on the other side, to remove the burr. I'd suggest giving yours a good sharpening, using the Sharpmaker, and being careful to make sure there's no burr remaining when you're done. Best of luck.

[Jumpin'Spyder]

I don't think there was a burr: it was new from a store but I didn't look at the edge with microscope or macro photo. Apparently the edge was good and I was very impressed by the sharpening of it: It cut like no other knives in my life.
I was so impressed that I cought another Chap SE to leave as a back up.

Don't know...now i will sharpen it with SM like a lot of people here has said but I have to read again some of the post just to be sure to do the right way

[Evil D]

Hi all,

A Chaparral SE 2 weeks old, very lightly used, mostly paper and nothing hard: It seems really really chipped for the use it had.



Maybe I'm not accustomed to the CTS-XHP behaviour ... Is it a so weak steel?

BTW I would like to sharpen like many of you suggested here, I have the SharpMaker with CBN, how have I to go with it?

I have also the Work Sharp Precision Adjust Elite Sharpener, complete set: could be useful?

I'm asking beacause I'm afraid to ruin one of my Chaps SE , that never come back again

Thanks guys

Do you have a Sharpmaker? This is pretty trivial to fix if you have one, those chips aren't bad at all. I personally won't use anything else on serrations.

[Jumpin'Spyder]

Do you have a Sharpmaker? This is pretty trivial to fix if you have one, those chips aren't bad at all. I personally won't use anything else on serrations.

Yes, I have

I have the Work Sharp Precision Adjust Elite Sharpener too, but I know you prefer and suggest the SharpMaker.

If I cannot ask too much, please could you remember me how to go with it to fix my edge? Just a short summary of the steps to do with SM.

Thanks so much Evil D

[Evil D]

Do you have a Sharpmaker? This is pretty trivial to fix if you have one, those chips aren't bad at all. I personally won't use anything else on serrations.

Yes, I have

I have the Work Sharp Precision Adjust Elite Sharpener too, but I know you prefer and suggest the SharpMaker.

If I cannot ask too much, please could you remember me how to go with it to fix my edge? Just a short summary of the steps to do with SM.

Thanks so much Evil D

I would start with the 30 degree slots on the brown rods, do about 4 passes on the front side then 1 pass on the back and repeat. In the future if you keep damaging the edge maybe a slightly thicker edge will suit your uses better, then I'd sharpen it on the 40 degree slots.

[Jumpin'Spyder]

I would start with the 30 degree slots on the brown rods, do about 4 passes on the front side then 1 pass on the back and repeat. In the future if you keep damaging the edge maybe a slightly thicker edge will suit your uses better, then I'd sharpen it on the 40 degree slots.

Got it!!! I will do so. Thanks so much and best

[Actinolite]

I picked up my first Chaparral SE. I like it. It's well made (Taichung, so, of course), extremely thin, and still comfortable in hand. As for the serrations, what appeared to me subtle rounding of serration tips in photos is anything but subtle in hand.

I also have to say, my thumb is very impressed by how quickly and easily this little knife slices.