Another thread for discussing a Chaparral XL - now that it came one step closer to becoming a reality

[aicolainen]

Nice ! That’s how I imagined it will look. Now do one in spyderedge

Here you go

So smooth and wavy I won't even need a PE version of this one.

[aicolainen]

Personally quite a redundant design imo. The caly 3.5 exists, and essentially has all the features of chap but bigger.. designs are getting a lot more redundant in general nowadays. Nothing will beat the old days

I don't agree, but that discussion has played out in this thread already, may that horse rest in peace.
I will add though, that while I'm eagerly anticipating the larger Chap, I'm simultaneously very intrigued by the Caly line, but unfortunately I stumbled into Spyderco after the prime time of this lineage, so I really hope that the talked about revival is not too far off in the future.
So far I only own a Chap LW, so it's too early to conclude, but based on my current preferences and use I think there is a case to be made for both families, and that they could very happily coexist in my sock drawer. Actually, if I like the Calys as much as I expect to, it's probably some of my (non Salt) Sekis that risk becoming redundant.
The wait is taking its toll though, so I'm actually on the brink of ordering the 3.5 in it's current offering, even though I dislike CF in genreal, and smooth scales in particular

[sal]

Hi Aicolainen,

Funny how tastes and interest change as one matures.

sal

[xceptnl]

Actually, if I like the Calys as much as I expect to, it's probably some of my (non Salt) Sekis that risk becoming redundant.
The wait is taking its toll though, so I'm actually on the brink of ordering the 3.5 in it's current offering, even though I dislike CF in genreal, and smooth scales in particular

They do not disappoint. The CF/ZDP is a really smooth folder and makes a great gents folder, but the Caly locks into the (at least mine) hand so well, I don't notice the grip in use, only in drawing from the pocket.
Eye candy to push you over the edge.

[aicolainen]

Eye candy to push you over the edge.

hahah, thanks a lot, xceptnl

It's certainly not holding me back

[xceptnl]

Eye candy to push you over the edge.

hahah, thanks a lot, xceptnl

It's certainly not holding me back

Enabling, just one of the many services I offer.

[Flash]

Wouldn’t mind seeing a new Caly 3.5 down the line.
Nice knife the ZDP version: secure ergos, solid feel, good all round blade size and shape.

I’d happily add one to my collection alongside a Chap XL.

They share a couple of similarities but both dissimilar enough to warrant their existences. The most annoying is the both The Chap and Caly get labbled as a “gentleman’s knife”. WTF does that mean?? I can only carry it if I’m wearing a waistcoat and a monocle!?

[Mat_ski]

Wouldn’t mind seeing a new Caly 3.5 down the line.
Nice knife the ZDP version: secure ergos, solid feel, good all round blade size and shape.

I’d happily add one to my collection alongside a Chap XL.

They share a couple of similarities but both dissimilar enough to warrant their existences. The most annoying is the both The Chap and Caly get labbled as a “gentleman’s knife”. WTF does that mean?? I can only carry it if I’m wearing a waistcoat and a monocle!?

Yeah I don’t quite understand some knife labels myself.
I am not sure what does general EDC supposed to mean either.
Is there some sort of official definition I am not aware of?
I always thought it simply means every day carry, so the stuff that’s in my pocket every day.
However, reading from some post in various places some knives are not EDC even if they are in my pocket everyday…
Can a fork be an EDC? What type of fork does it have to be to meet that requirement?
I am confused.

Anyway, I am really excited for this knife. I will be waiting impatiently.

[Mat_ski]

Double

[aicolainen]

The most annoying is the both The Chap and Caly get labbled as a “gentleman’s knife”. WTF does that mean?? I can only carry it if I’m wearing a waistcoat and a monocle!?

^ This, ^%

I realize gentlemans knives is a thing, but I can't relate.
Every knife acquisition I consider/go through with, is a result of some type of identified need (though I sometimes overestimate the relevance of those needs ). And those needs are usually related to specific tasks or activities regularly associated with cutting e.g: professional work (engineer), amateur work on my spare time (home maintenance, renovation etc.), volunteer work (SAR), hunting, fishing, general outdoor etc.

My approach to gentlemanism (not a word, apparently) is to be mindful of the situation, considerate to my surroundings, keeping a low profile and carrying out of plain sight when I deem it appropriate. I (think I) accomplish this by carrying small to medium sized knives in bottom of pocket, IWB or with deep carry clips and trying to appear responsible and confidence inspiring when I have to deploy/use a knife in public. Sacrificing function by choosing less suitable materials and surface treatments does not make me more of a gentleman IMO.

I sometimes dress up to levels that may match that of a stereotypical gentleman, but this hardly ever coincides with the need to cut anything. Well, at least nothing that my Victorinox Cadet / Alox Bantam can't handle. Which is what I typically carry, if anything, when dressed up in a suit or similar.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, this is just one of many things in life I can't relate to personally. Yet.
But so many perspectives changes over time, one day I might be asking for advice, enthusiastically in search of a gentlemans knife

[aicolainen]

Yeah I don’t quite understand some knife labels myself.
I am not sure what does general EDC supposed to mean either.
Is there some sort of official definition I am not aware of?
I always thought it simply means every day carry, so the stuff that’s in my pocket every day.
However, reading from some post in various places some knives are not EDC even if they are in my pocket everyday…
Can a fork be an EDC? What type of fork does it have to be to meet that requirement?
I am confused.

Anyway, I am really excited for this knife. I will be waiting impatiently.

Maybe it's a similar categorization, I haven't thought of it that way.
EDC is something I do myself, so it's easier to relate to.

EDC is certainly not the same for everyone, but common traits are typically easy to carry knives suitable for a diverse range of tasks, so that's what will typically be reflected in marketing and generic advice concerning "EDC" knives. That's not to say a Spyderco Civillian can't be your EDC.

[vivi]

Eye candy to push you over the edge.

hahah, thanks a lot, xceptnl

It's certainly not holding me back

I agree with him. I'm not wild about smooth scales typically, but I had no issues with the carbon fiber scales on the caly 3 or 3.5. I used to own every caly jr and caly 3 / 3.5 variant once upon a time, and the designs locked my hand in place well enough I was never concerned with grip security.

Kind of awkward for poking holes in things with reverse grip though - but then again any knife too small to really be gripped behind the choil has that problem.

[xceptnl]

I would define a gents knife as one i can discretely carry deep in the pocket or without clip. Smooth handle scales as not to fray and wear heavily on trouser pockets. Intended to cut same as and EDC, or tactical, or utility, but in a refined form factor.

Does this reduce its capabilities? Not in my opinion. If stuck carrying my ZDP/CF Caly 3.5 and had to cut the sidewall of my tire from the rim (an extreme and unlikely scenario) I wouldn't feel hesitant about that, when pressed.

I don't think removing grippy G-10 and applying CF to a knife automatically defines it's capability to cross over roles. A well made design that works regardless of handle scale texture is a much more crucial metric. That's why I stated this specifically about the Caly locks lineup.

If Sal decided to take the SS Kopa and apply a G10 handle, this would be another example of a design that could flex beyond labels.

@Flash
@aicolainen
@Mat_ski

[Mushroom]

Wouldn’t mind seeing a new Caly 3.5 down the line.
Nice knife the ZDP version: secure ergos, solid feel, good all round blade size and shape.

I’d happily add one to my collection alongside a Chap XL.

They share a couple of similarities but both dissimilar enough to warrant their existences. The most annoying is the both The Chap and Caly get labbled as a “gentleman’s knife”. WTF does that mean?? I can only carry it if I’m wearing a waistcoat and a monocle!?

The word “only” seems to be getting in the way of your understanding of the term.

A “gentleman’s knife” is not limited only to formal occasions or professional events. A knife with that label can be carried and used anywhere but they’re also designed to be appropriate for carrying during those more formal or professional settings as well.

We wouldn’t carry a Province on our hip at a wedding because it would be out of touch with the situation and could even be considered disrespectful for the event. I’m actually unaware of any context in which the Province would be considered a gentleman’s knife. A carbon fiber Caly 3.5 in our pocket would be a much more tasteful choice for the occasion.

Yeah I don’t quite understand some knife labels myself.
I am not sure what does general EDC supposed to mean either.
Is there some sort of official definition I am not aware of?
I always thought it simply means every day carry, so the stuff that’s in my pocket every day.
However, reading from some post in various places some knives are not EDC even if they are in my pocket everyday…
Can a fork be an EDC? What type of fork does it have to be to meet that requirement?
I am confused.

Anyway, I am really excited for this knife. I will be waiting impatiently.

With how much the EDC concept in general has been commercialized, the true meaning of what EDC stood for has been somewhat lost. It used to be a philosophy based in practicality for our daily needs but it has morphed into more of a fashion trend and collector market.

As far as I know, there aren’t any established prerequisites needed to determine what gives an EDC item that label, other than carrying it everyday. I don’t see why a fork couldn’t be considered an EDC item.

Technically we could call any knife an EDC knife, as long as it is what we prefer to carry on a daily basis. As much as we embrace personal preferences though, we should still be able to acknowledge a point where things start to get impractical for daily use.

Hypothetically - just because I daily carry a large hunting knife on my hip, we can call it my EDC knife but that doesn’t mean it should be sold with that label. It is still a hunting knife and should be sold as such.

We would call a knife like a Delica an “EDC knife” because it’s practical for daily carry and designed for general everyday utility. However, there are many different reasons for needing a knife, which is why there are many specialized designs intended to serve the specific niche uses beyond our general everyday needs. For example - if we daily carry a Spydersaw, we could call it an EDC but it’s still a folding saw and clearly not a knife that’s optimized for general everyday utility. It should not be classified or sold as an EDC knife.

tl;dr - “EDC” can be just a label for the things we carry everyday but in certain context, it has a deeper meaning rooted in practicality and versatility.

[aicolainen]

Eye candy to push you over the edge.

hahah, thanks a lot, xceptnl

It's certainly not holding me back

I agree with him. I'm not wild about smooth scales typically, but I had no issues with the carbon fiber scales on the caly 3 or 3.5. I used to own every caly jr and caly 3 / 3.5 variant once upon a time, and the designs locked my hand in place well enough I was never concerned with grip security.

Kind of awkward for poking holes in things with reverse grip though - but then again any knife too small to really be gripped behind the choil has that problem.

Well, now there seems to be a colletive movement to push me over. Is Sal paying you guys, or something? Whatever it is, it seems to be working. My reservations are crumbling

[Mat_ski]

Wouldn’t mind seeing a new Caly 3.5 down the line.
Nice knife the ZDP version: secure ergos, solid feel, good all round blade size and shape.

I’d happily add one to my collection alongside a Chap XL.

They share a couple of similarities but both dissimilar enough to warrant their existences. The most annoying is the both The Chap and Caly get labbled as a “gentleman’s knife”. WTF does that mean?? I can only carry it if I’m wearing a waistcoat and a monocle!?

The word “only” seems to be getting in the way of your understanding of the term.

A “gentleman’s knife” is not limited only to formal occasions or professional events. A knife with that label can be carried and used anywhere but they’re also designed to be appropriate for carrying during those more formal or professional settings as well.

We wouldn’t carry a Province on our hip at a wedding because it would be out of touch with the situation and could even be considered disrespectful for the event. I’m actually unaware of any context in which the Province would be considered a gentleman’s knife. A carbon fiber Caly 3.5 in our pocket would be a much more tasteful choice for the occasion.

Yeah I don’t quite understand some knife labels myself.
I am not sure what does general EDC supposed to mean either.
Is there some sort of official definition I am not aware of?
I always thought it simply means every day carry, so the stuff that’s in my pocket every day.
However, reading from some post in various places some knives are not EDC even if they are in my pocket everyday…
Can a fork be an EDC? What type of fork does it have to be to meet that requirement?
I am confused.

Anyway, I am really excited for this knife. I will be waiting impatiently.

With how much the EDC concept in general has been commercialized, the true meaning of what EDC stood for has been somewhat lost. It used to be a philosophy based in practicality for our daily needs but it has morphed into more of a fashion trend and collector market.

As far as I know, there aren’t any established prerequisites needed to determine what gives an EDC item that label, other than carrying it everyday. I don’t see why a fork couldn’t be considered an EDC item.

Technically we could call any knife an EDC knife, as long as it is what we prefer to carry on a daily basis. As much as we embrace personal preferences though, we should still be able to acknowledge a point where things start to get impractical for daily use.

Hypothetically - just because I daily carry a large hunting knife on my hip, we can call it my EDC knife but that doesn’t mean it should be sold with that label. It is still a hunting knife and should be sold as such.

We would call a knife like a Delica an “EDC knife” because it’s practical for daily carry and designed for general everyday utility. However, there are many different reasons for needing a knife, which is why there are many specialized designs intended to serve the specific niche uses beyond our general everyday needs. For example - if we daily carry a Spydersaw, we could call it an EDC but it’s still a folding saw and clearly not a knife that’s optimized for general everyday utility. It should not be classified or sold as an EDC knife.

tl;dr - “EDC” can be just a label for the things we carry everyday but in certain context, it has a deeper meaning rooted in practicality and versatility.

And this is what I have always thought.

However, reading about certain types of tips not being strong enough for EDC or that 3 mm blade stock is better than 2 mm for EDC is what confuses me.

And I say all that with little bit of humor.

[cjk]

With regards to a naming the potential product,
A lot of us refer to the Chaparral as "chap".
I think of "chap" as meaning "boy".
A grown up boy is man, so call it the Manarral.
It's a made up name, so probably trademark-able.

[xceptnl]

With regards to a naming the potential product,
A lot of us refer to the Chaparral as "chap".
I think of "chap" as meaning "boy".
A grown up boy is man, so call it the Manarral.
It's a made up name, so probably trademark-able.

That's pretty clever.

[aicolainen]

It's cool when there's a deeper meaning to a product name than what's immediately apparent, but there's a catch as well.

When you're an outsider trying to make sense of things, good naming conventions matter.
adding small, large, regular, mini etc. to a name is boring, but very descriptive and helpful for the non nerds.

[Wartstein]

...
And this is what I have always thought.

However, reading about certain types of tips not being strong enough for EDC or that 3 mm blade stock is better than 2 mm for EDC is what confuses me.

And I say all that with little bit of humor.

Good points regarding the "gents knives" (vs...) "general EDC" discussion, folks!

I am actually bit guilty of bringing that supposed differentiation on the table myself.. despite I don´t really believe in it...:
When discussing the Chap or also a "Chap XL" in the past people sometimes said "this knife does not need to have feature x or feature y, cause it is designed to be a gents knife meant only for light duty tasks".
As a reaction to that I usually replied that in my extended experience the Chap actually is NOT only good for light duty, but definitely for ANY reasonable task that might occur while "everyday carrying a folder" - and to point that out I used the term "it is for general EDC", meaning "not specialized for more delicate tasks"

Same with the Chap XL: My "vision" for such a knife always has been that it would be used and good for anything people use for example a PM2 or Manix 2 or Endela for... and just maybe even more efficient due to the thin, slicey ,but (hopefully!) still strong enough blade.
Actually finding out IF this is the case, IF a Chap XL with such a thin blade can "survive" being not babied, but used for everything people usually put their EDC folders through, is the "point" of this whole project for me

So, @Mat_ski I actually tend to believe that 2 mm bladestock in an Endela sized folder might turn out to be even better than 3 mm due to its better base for a good cutting geometry

And: I also belive that WITH such a thin, but rather long blade (tapering...) the tip shape actually COULD be the deciding factor if the blade will hold up to the various tasks people do with their EDC folders... make the tip profile too delicate when looking at the flat of the blade, combined with the thin stock in the tip area it might be too prone to snap. While with the rather "blunt" leaf shape of the Chap (or Manix-, or Sage - ...) blade, the tip should still be strong enough (again, I am of the opinion that with folders the only place and risk were a blade realistically can snap IS the very tip, otherwise 2 mm ffg should be strong enough even in longer blades).