Lil' Temperance 3 VG-10 FRN for a whopping street price of $176.40 made little sense and now Lil' Temperance 3 K390 FRN for a street price of $217.00 begs even more credulity. I can only see them being discontinued after a couple of batches are produced.
Now, RockJumper and LeafJumper would be much better candidates to have a K390 FRN version for about $120 since the VG-10 FRN version is $92.50.
Yeah I was confused when I saw that knife show up. At the store I normally buy from, the lil' temperance is more expensive than the para 3 in G10. The k390 model at that price is competing with the maxamet models. I like the design but the price point makes no sense to me.
The jumpers are at a price where it competes with the delica, so I'm surprised they're not doing too well already.
The jumpers are at a price where it competes with the delica, so I'm surprised they're not doing too well already.
The Rock/Leaf Jumpers have alternatives in the Delica line for $4 less and their advantages less apparent unless you hold them.
I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln
Thank you Sal. My pleasure.to be here. My first Spydie is the Bow River fixed blade. Which is the perfect kitchen and camp knife. Amazing slicing on that one.
And to be fair, bringing up what cavemen used or what our parents and grandparents used is kind of irrelevant. there's no reason to believe they wouldn't have wanted k390 or cruwear or lc200n (just for examples) in their pocket knife if it was available at the time. i mean, even vg10 is better than what our grandparents carried, so maybe we shouldn't use that either. i'm not going to trade my m390 manix to try flint knapping my own knife just because rocks are free and they were good enough for cavemen.
The reason I brought up Cavemen and older generations is because I feel like some people today when they complain about more basic steels and scream that VG10 and 8CR13 MOV suck. I just want to remind them the limited choices we had in past. And how as a child in the 1980's. I wish I had VG10 in place of 440A or AUS 4.
I am only 49 and I can remember 440C being considered the top steel for knives. Something only those with good incomes could afford.
I just think some people today truly do not understand or appreciate the vast choices in not only steel selection. But handle material, ergonomics, tolerances, quality control, limited lifetime warranties. Etc.
My big fear is that companies will quit using budget steels due to constant customer outrage and social media influencers disdain for simpler steels. Despite the fact there is a majority of more upscale steels available. And as a result. Steels like VG10 and budget steels will be phased out.
Which could in turn make cutlery even more expensive than it already is. And hurt the majority of us who have a limited budget or limited shills to sharpen super steels. Ever since Covid hit. I seen some serious price hikes and.companies closing their doors. The last thing we need right now is to phase out standard steels that are more economical to produce.
Like I said. Great post you made. Just bringing up some different points to ponder on.
Last edited by JoshLikesSekiCityKnives on Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
I for one hope VG10, 8CR13MOV, and budget steels stay readily available over steels such as ZDP189 and 20CV. Reasons being.
1. Not everyone buys into the steel of the month or sales hype of the next big thing.
2. Easy to sharpen VG10 in the field.Even on the bottom of a coffee cup or hard stone in a creek.If you lose your sharpener.
3. Edge retention is not the best. But far from horrible. And a definite improvement over bone, flint, iron and bronze knives Cavemen and the Roman empire used.
4. Affordability. Some of us don't want to spend a few hundred on a knife just to have the steel of the month. I would rather have money left over for other stuff. Such as silver bullion, nice clothing, watches, and food/house maintenance.
5. My point is the majority of people. Including myself want an easy to sharpen fairly tough affordable knife that does not cost $300 to 5 Grand. And are perfectly happy with basic steels such as VG10 and 8CR13MOV.
6. I don't want to use a $300 on up knife on a construction site for rough use or the chance it will be lost, broken, or stolen.Yes I have had this happen.
Some knife enthusiasts speak as if there is no selection of knives with more modern super steels And that anything below 20CV is horrible junk. You are living in a golden age of super steel and knife selection.
I would hate for some of you to have grown up in the 70's through the 1990's and dealt with the selection I had available as a kid. You have a wonderful selection today and yet don't realize it.
josh, welcome and thanks for chiming in with your perspective. i'm not sure if you are arguing against my post, or against other comments, but i clearly stated that i don't think vg10 should go away. i only have one knife in vg10 currently, but i have quite a few in s30v and even 8cr13mov. i agree with you 100% about needing knives with lower cost/higher value in the lineup. i also don't subscribe to needing the newest steel flavor or longest edge holding. in fact, my favored steels if you were to look at my collection would be lc200n and s30v. as i said, i'm perfectly fine with middle of the road, we'll-balanced steels. my point is simply that it might be beneficial to offer knives in those super steels to get enthusiasts excited enough to talk about the knives so that people will want them more, even if they go for a vg10 version of the same thing.
and to be fair, bringing up what cavemen used or what our parents and grandparents used is kind of irrelevant. there's no reason to believe they wouldn't have wanted k390 or cruwear or lc200n (just for examples) in their pocket knife if it was available at the time. i mean, even vg10 is better than what our grandparents carried, so maybe we shouldn't use that either. i'm not going to trade my m390 manix to try flint knapping my own knife just because rocks are free and they were good enough for cavemen.
but, i really am glad you're here and do appreciate your perspective. you seem like the type of person i was referring to in my post that knows how to google search and learn about steels and knife designs and pay attention to the buzz, but is totally happy to stick with vg10. believe it or not, i'm on your side. i want to see great models that are currently only available in vg10 stick around instead of getting discontinued.
No argument at all. I love your post and I love the super steels also. But Me being a basic sharpener and on a limited budget. 80% of my knives are not super steels.
I bought my first Spydie folder in the Endura. Which is VG10. And I really like how easy it is to sharpen on a cheap stone and honing rod.
I don't know a lot about knives. But I do try to research and learn. Larrins metallurgy info he freely shares has taught me a lot in what to look for also.
Enjoyed your post very much. And yes super steels rock. But There is something to be said for more basic traditional steels also.
What I would like to see is the option to choose your own steel choice in a knife design such as.the endura.that could be swapped out by the factory for a fee.
No argument at all. I love your post and I love the super steels also. But Me being a basic sharpener and on a limited budget. 80% of my knives are not super steels.
I bought my first Spydie folder in the Endura. Which is VG10. And I really like how easy it is to sharpen on a cheap stone and honing rod.
I don't know a lot about knives. But I do try to research and learn. Larrins metallurgy info he freely shares has taught me a lot in what to look for also.
Enjoyed your post very much. And yes super steels rock. But There is something to be said for more basic traditional steels also.
honestly, i wish i had the skill to knap a knife out of stone.
vg10 is a fine steel, but it's not very appealing to me, personally. i've seen spots develop on vg10 from basically nothing but the environment, which is weird to me because everyone always says it's stainless enough to not need salt models, but i've had tool steels handle the same environment with less effect than vg10. not sure how that works. so, for me, i'd rather just buy a steel like k390 if i'm going to have to be concerned with rust or patina and i'd rather buy lc200n or h1 (or h2) if i don't want to worry about rust. vg10 just doesn't fill a niche i need, value included, since the prices keep rising. there's not a knife in vg10 that i wouldn't rather have in a different steel. i will probably eventually cave though and get a model or two in vg10 because it's not available in any other steels.
anyway, that's kind of all off-topic. i don't really chase super steels, but a lot of people do. i don't see a lot of buzz around models that are only available in vg10, but you see a lot more when other steels are in the mix. i can understand spyderco's perspective that they can't cater to everyone and they need to see if a model is viable before expanding it. i just wonder if it might be more beneficial to start with a steel people are more interested in so there is hype surrounding a new model and more people are talking about it. if it generates enough interest, a budget version could always follow after and then people will be excited to get a knife that had a lot of hype for a more reasonable value.
i'm sure they have plenty of savvy marketing people that know better than i do though. if not, i'm not really looking to relocate to golden, but i am looking for a career change very soon. *cough cough*
What I would like to see is the option to choose your own steel choice in a knife design such as.the endura.that could be swapped out by the factory for a fee.
this has been brought up many times. it's always shot down for a handful of reasons.
What I would like to see is the option to choose your own steel choice in a knife design such as.the endura.that could be swapped out by the factory for a fee.
this has been brought up many times. it's always shot down for a handful of reasons.
I get that 100% I would just like to see the option someday exist as production and technology gets better.
No argument at all. I love your post and I love the super steels also. But Me being a basic sharpener and on a limited budget. 80% of my knives are not super steels.
I bought my first Spydie folder in the Endura. Which is VG10. And I really like how easy it is to sharpen on a cheap stone and honing rod.
I don't know a lot about knives. But I do try to research and learn. Larrins metallurgy info he freely shares has taught me a lot in what to look for also.
Enjoyed your post very much. And yes super steels rock. But There is something to be said for more basic traditional steels also.
honestly, i wish i had the skill to knap a knife out of stone.
vg10 is a fine steel, but it's not very appealing to me, personally. i've seen spots develop on vg10 from basically nothing but the environment, which is weird to me because everyone always says it's stainless enough to not need salt models, but i've had tool steels handle the same environment with less effect than vg10. not sure how that works. so, for me, i'd rather just buy a steel like k390 if i'm going to have to be concerned with rust or patina and i'd rather buy lc200n or h1 (or h2) if i don't want to worry about rust. vg10 just doesn't fill a niche i need, value included, since the prices keep rising. there's not a knife in vg10 that i wouldn't rather have in a different steel. i will probably eventually cave though and get a model or two in vg10 because it's not available in any other steels.
anyway, that's kind of all off-topic. i don't really chase super steels, but a lot of people do. i don't see a lot of buzz around models that are only available in vg10, but you see a lot more when other steels are in the mix. i can understand spyderco's perspective that they can't cater to everyone and they need to see if a model is viable before expanding it. i just wonder if it might be more beneficial to start with a steel people are more interested in so there is hype surrounding a new model and more people are talking about it. if it generates enough interest, a budget version could always follow after and then people will be excited to get a knife that had a lot of hype for a more reasonable value.
i'm sure they have plenty of savvy marketing people that know better than i do though. if not, i'm not really looking to relocate to golden, but i am looking for a career change very soon. *cough cough*
Stone knives are used to split cells in a lab. And are like hundreds of.times sharper than the sharpest steel. Depending on the type of stone of course.
I like VG10 for basic EDC. I keep mine oiled. I do want to try some LC200 for fishing and ocean environments. But I already have a David Boye Music 3 fixed blade in Dendritic Cobalt.
I also like S30/35V. I do own 2 knives with 20CV. And I love the edge retention. But sometimes when I cut harder stuff I get a small chip. And trying to re sharpen 20CV can be time consuming. But boy oh boy 20CV takes an awesome edge. Gonna run out to the coffee shop.
You have a wonderful day ladybug.
The science of stone cutting tools/weapons is every bit as interesting and complex as steel.
I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that the shape of a serrated leaf blade Spyderco and some ancient knapped knives are so similar.
I have some some very minor experience with knapping and only understand the basic premise of the process, but it is definitely a rewarding skill.
The process for resharpening some stone tools is actually quite straightforward and quick, though. There are some really skilled people who hunt and process game as large as Buffalo with only stone tools that they’ve made. I’ve learned a good bit about it from a guy on YouTube who makes and sells traditional tools, as well as just a general interest in ancient tools that kinda bridges the gap between modern knives and paleontology, for me.
Living in Florida, there is a rich and accessible history for all of that.
Anyway, for getting pretty off-topic.
To bring it back to less popular models in upgraded steels that could possibly make them more interesting, my next proposal are ZDP-189 burgundy Morans, and maybe bring back the leather sheaths or do something special on the boltaron (can you do different colors like gold accents?).
Not sure if the Moran is actually unpopular, but I’ve been thinking about it a lot now that I have one and I can’t think of a better variation.
A Rockjumper/LeafJumper I with burgundy FRN, ZDP-189, and gold bug, would be just as neat. Now that we know ZDP-189 is still good to go, I am all for more knives using it.
Doing them in this steel could also differentiate the models from the K390 family.
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
