Spyderco Forums

Xplorer wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:51 am

Cambertree wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:57 pm

My Waterway came in at -
3.03mm/0.119" spine (in front of plunge line
0.62mm/.023" BTE averaged from three readings.

This one caught my attention because I recently made a custom Vanax Waterway for Lance, and to do that I had to carefully study the dimensional measurements of the Spyderco version.

The spine thickness listed here is basically the same as what I have measured. I get .119" just behind the plunge line with my calipers and .120" using a micrometer on a precision granite slab.

BTE measurements can be a little more difficult. I expect to see variances around +/- .002" from one person to the next for a variety of reasons. The only reason I bring this one up is because the BTE measurement listed above is nearly double what I am finding.

My Waterway measures .119" at the spine and .012" BTE .


Best,
CK

Awesome :eek: I only wish all my blades are like that behind the edge ...

elena86 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:11 pm

Xplorer wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:51 am

Cambertree wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:57 pm

My Waterway came in at -
3.03mm/0.119" spine (in front of plunge line
0.62mm/.023" BTE averaged from three readings.

This one caught my attention because I recently made a custom Vanax Waterway for Lance, and to do that I had to carefully study the dimensional measurements of the Spyderco version.

The spine thickness listed here is basically the same as what I have measured. I get .119" just behind the plunge line with my calipers and .120" using a micrometer on a precision granite slab.

BTE measurements can be a little more difficult. I expect to see variances around +/- .002" from one person to the next for a variety of reasons. The only reason I bring this one up is because the BTE measurement listed above is nearly double what I am finding.

My Waterway measures .119" at the spine and .012" BTE .


Best,
CK

Awesome :eek: I only wish all my blades are like that behind the edge ...

I saw a video where Phil Wilson was measuring behind the edge doing the same way Xplorer is showing. I've been doing it that way ever since. I do it under a magnifying light so I can see that I'm right on the shoulder. You can also feel the jaws of the caliper sliding down the edge bevel when you're below the shoulder.

Xplorer wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:51 am

Cambertree wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:57 pm

My Waterway came in at -
3.03mm/0.119" spine (in front of plunge line
0.62mm/.023" BTE averaged from three readings.

This one caught my attention because I recently made a custom Vanax Waterway for Lance, and to do that I had to carefully study the dimensional measurements of the Spyderco version.

The spine thickness listed here is basically the same as what I have measured. I get .119" just behind the plunge line with my calipers and .120" using a micrometer on a precision granite slab.

BTE measurements can be a little more difficult. I expect to see variances around +/- .002" from one person to the next for a variety of reasons. The only reason I bring this one up is because the BTE measurement listed above is nearly double what I am finding.

My Waterway measures .119" at the spine and .012" BTE .


Best,
CK

That's very interesting Chad.

I think +/- .002" between different testers is a reasonable assumption.

I try to get right on the shoulder as you have shown in your pic, and generally take two or three sets of BTE readings, to check my accuracy. Each set consists of three readings - one about 5mm in front of the plungeline, one in the middle of the blade, and one about 5mm back from the tip. Then I average the figure.

As I'm sure you know, the tips on most Spydies are thicker BTE than most of the rest of the edge, usually by .002"-.003", so it increases the average a little.

When I first examine a knife I also always pinch my thumb and forefinger over the edge and run it along the blade for a SWAG impression. Most folding Spydies seem to come in around .020"-.025" or thereabouts. Modern traditional slipjoints usually measure around the .010"-.015" range. My handmade Funayuki and Nakiri kitchen knives come in around 0.006" and 0.007" respectively.

I was actually quite surprised my Waterway seemed relatively thick BTE like that. I won't vouch for any better accuracy on my behalf than +/- 0.002", but I'm fairly confident that my measurements were ballpark correct.

Unfortunately, I thinned out the edge on my Waterway immediately after taking those measurements, so I can't check the factory thickness BTE again.

Having said all that, it's very interesting that there would be that much variation in BTE thickness. I believe some of the factories still use hand finishing on the final sharpening, but I'm not sure about Golden.

I recall some other users mentioned their Waterway edge was a little obtuse. It may be possible that knives made in Golden are able to have CQI applied very quickly, based on user feedback on things like the edge grinds? Or it could just be hand finishing variation, if that's part of the process.

I would have been very happy with .012" BTE on my Waterway.

And I have to add, you've made me jealous for a Vanax Waterway now! That would be an absolutely outstanding knife!

I've been really enjoying my LC200N knives, but I'd love to see a slightly harder, stronger, more wear resistant steel, which still takes a superfine edge and is rustproof, like Vanax.

Sharp Guy wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:00 pm

I saw a video where Phil Wilson was measuring behind the edge doing the same way Xplorer is showing. I've been doing it that way ever since. I do it under a magnifying light so I can see that I'm right on the shoulder. You can also feel the jaws of the caliper sliding down the edge bevel when you're below the shoulder.

Yes, I saw that video too, Sharp Guy, and I've done it the same way since then as well. :)

Cambertree wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:40 pm

...Having said all that, it's very interesting that there would be that much variation in BTE thickness....I would have been very happy with .012" BTE on my Waterway.

I imagine there can be some variation in production, but honestly I was hoping you may have made an error somehow and that they don't really vary that much. That would be a really big variance and Spyderco tends to hold tighter tolerances than the other big knife companies. Maybe they just send the extra tough pieces to Australia :p . Regardless, I hope your Waterway is performing well for you now. :)

Cambertree wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:40 pm

And I have to add, you've made me jealous for a Vanax Waterway now! That would be an absolutely outstanding knife!...

I'd like a Vanax Waterway myself ...I just don't have the time at the moment... right now the only one in the world is in Costa Rica.

Best regards,
CK

Xplorer wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:06 pm

I imagine there can be some variation in production, but honestly I was hoping you may have made an error somehow and that they don't really vary that much. That would be a really big variance and Spyderco tends to hold tighter tolerances than the other big knife companies. Maybe they just send the extra tough pieces to Australia :p . Regardless, I hope your Waterway is performing well for you now.

Yes, I'd be the last one to claim my measurements are infallible, but generally the 'pinch test' can easily tell the difference between a .023" BTE thickness and a 0.015" or 0.012" thickness, which would be equivalent to a Chaparral or K390 Urban.

I had a look in my notes to see if I had recorded all three measurements along the edge, but I hadn't. Considering the standard thicker tip raising the averaged (0.023") reading, I'd guess most of the rest of the edge was around the 0.021" mark. Still a ways off your edge thickness though.

Yeah, I'm generally confident that Spyderco maintain excellent tight tolerances. I recall Sal saying that in Golden they actually maintain 0.0003" tolerances!

That's why I hope that the thinner edge might be the result of CQI.

I guess that's the value of this thread, that we can get a better idea of these things as more people contribute data points.

Let's keep bumping this thread with more info, folks!

Anyone out there with more Waterway measurements?

Oh yeah, and I'm enjoying the knife a lot (which I bought from New Graham) thanks very much. :) Great design and I love the fine edge it takes. :cool:

McBee

Spine - .118"
BTE - .030" (Averaged from 3 measurements of .029 .030 .031)

Spyderco Emphasis Folding Knife 3.61" Satin Plain Blade, Black G10 Handles - C245GP
Date Code 'HS'.

Blade thickness - 0.118" (2.9972mm)

Half inch from the tip - 0.026" (0.6604mm)

Mid-blade - 0.025" (0.635mm)

Half inch from the plunge grind - 0.024" (0.6096mm)

:spyder:

River's Edge Cutlery Paramilitary 2 Exclusive (Coyote Brown G10, CPM 10V):

BTE: 0.0236"

(average of 3 measurements taken at the heel, middle, and tip of blade)

Got my new calipers in yesterday, so I'm going to make my way through the collection and post up some of my findings.

First up:

Chaparral FRN
Stock: 0.079"
Plunge: 0.019"
Mid blade 0.019"
Tip: 0.019"

Urban K390
Stock: 0.112"
Plunge: 0.016"
Mid blade 0.016"
Tip: 0.017"

Manix 2 blue g10 sprint
Stock: 0.125"
Plunge: 0.025"
Mid blade 0.032"
Tip 0.037"

Kapara
Stock: 0.118"
Plunge: 0.022"
Mid blade 0.020"
Tip: 0.022"

More to follow soon :D

JustinB wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:16 am

Got my new calipers in yesterday, so I'm going to make my way through the collection and post up some of my findings.

First up:

Chaparral FRN
Stock: 0.079"
Plunge: 0.019"
Mid blade 0.019"
Tip: 0.019"

Urban K390
Stock: 0.112"
Plunge: 0.016"
Mid blade 0.016"
Tip: 0.017"

Manix 2 blue g10 sprint
Stock: 0.125"
Plunge: 0.025"
Mid blade 0.032"
Tip 0.037"

Kapara
Stock: 0.118"
Plunge: 0.022"
Mid blade 0.020"
Tip: 0.022"

More to follow soon :D

Good job ! I was expecting the Kapara to be thinner behind the edge. I hope you own the Spydiechef ,the Ikuchi and the Smock. Keep'em coming.

Thanks Marius!

I was surprised at the measurements of the Kapara myself. After using it for a bit and seeing how effortless it sailed through everything I used it on, I was definitely expecting a lower measurment. I guess overall cutting performance of a knife has many different factors that can affect it. BTE thickness, secondary edge angle, edge aggressiveness, steel composition, blade finish, etc.

Don't have a spydiechef, smock or ikuchi yet, but who knows what the future holds :D

I was inspired by recent postings to measure a few of my more recently acquired Spydies.

My format (measurements are in inches)
Model
1/4” from ricasso/middle of blade/1/4” from tip
Stock thickness

Today’s measurements:
Police 4
0.022/0.023/0.0235
0.114

M390 Manix 2
0.020/0.024/0.025
0.125

Rex 45 Manix 2
0.019/0.025/0.027
0.125

Rex 45 Native 5
0.020/0.020/0.020
0.125

Rex 45 Native LW
0.021/0.021/0.021
0.125

Mantra 2
0.0155/0.015/0.0155
0.115


The Police was thicker than it looks when estimating by the bevel width, so I think it’s got a quite obtuse factory edge angle.

I’m quite disappointed in the Rex 45 Manix’s inconsistency, especially considering the mid-blade and tip measurements. All 4 Manixes I’ve purchased since the smooth G10 Cruwear Manix have had very wide edge bevels mid-blade and at the tip (big BTE), and its getting a bit tiresome.

The Natives’ consistency were a pleasant surprise.

I’m stunned by the Mantra 2!

Measured todays carry

Knifeworks exclusive 204p PM2
Stock: 0.138"
Plunge: 0.025"
Mid blade: 0.022"
Tip: 0.023"

So guys I'm working on compiling all this and revising the original post into an alphabetic list of knives with averages. It would really help my sanity if you would please stick with Sharp Guy's measurement locations and format it how he's posting it (I'm copying this stuff over to a text doc and when everyone is posting it in different ways it's a nightmare). Also if we're not all measuring at the same locations on the blade I can't average those numbers in. Also remember anything that has been sharpened more than a micro bevel isn't an accurate measurement and I won't be adding those. We're looking for factory ground edge bevels here.

Example of how I'm asking everyone to measure and format their numbers can be found here viewtopic.php?p=1130365#p1130365)

Evil D wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:46 pm

So guys I'm working on compiling all this and revising the original post into an alphabetic list of knives with averages. It would really help my sanity if you would please stick with Sharp Guy's measurement locations and format it how he's posting it (I'm copying this stuff over to a text doc and when everyone is posting it in different ways it's a nightmare). Also if we're not all measuring at the same locations on the blade I can't average those numbers in. Also remember anything that has been sharpened more than a micro bevel isn't an accurate measurement and I won't be adding those. We're looking for factory ground edge bevels here.

Example of how I'm asking everyone to measure and format their numbers can be found here viewtopic.php?p=1130365#p1130365)

Hey David,

I came across this thread and thought immediately "this would be better as a spreadsheet."

So I made one, as well as a google form which feeds the spreadsheet. Unfortunately, it looks like I pulled your data right before you updated it today, so it's already in need of updating!

If you like it and want edit access you so you can manually enter stuff I'm happy to share that with you. Probably better if everyone else can view but not edit, and to take submission via the form. Also happy to share edit access to the form if you like, just PM me your gmail.

If this is silly, please feel free to ignore; only took about 10 minutes.

I need to go through my knives and do some updating. I've acquired several since the last time

kennethsime wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:19 pm

Evil D wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:46 pm

So guys I'm working on compiling all this and revising the original post into an alphabetic list of knives with averages. It would really help my sanity if you would please stick with Sharp Guy's measurement locations and format it how he's posting it (I'm copying this stuff over to a text doc and when everyone is posting it in different ways it's a nightmare). Also if we're not all measuring at the same locations on the blade I can't average those numbers in. Also remember anything that has been sharpened more than a micro bevel isn't an accurate measurement and I won't be adding those. We're looking for factory ground edge bevels here.

Example of how I'm asking everyone to measure and format their numbers can be found here viewtopic.php?p=1130365#p1130365)

Hey David,

I came across this thread and thought immediately "this would be better as a spreadsheet."

So I made one, as well as a google form which feeds the spreadsheet. Unfortunately, it looks like I pulled your data right before you updated it today, so it's already in need of updating!

If you like it and want edit access you so you can manually enter stuff I'm happy to share that with you. Probably better if everyone else can view but not edit, and to take submission via the form. Also happy to share edit access to the form if you like, just PM me your gmail.

If this is silly, please feel free to ignore; only took about 10 minutes.

No man I'm not a spreadsheets kind of guy. If you wanna take the reigns on that then I've got no problems with it. I had planned to average everything as more measurements come but it really looks like people are measuring at different places so I'm not sure that's realistic.

kennethsime wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:19 pm

Evil D wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:46 pm

So guys I'm working on compiling all this and revising the original post into an alphabetic list of knives with averages. It would really help my sanity if you would please stick with Sharp Guy's measurement locations and format it how he's posting it (I'm copying this stuff over to a text doc and when everyone is posting it in different ways it's a nightmare). Also if we're not all measuring at the same locations on the blade I can't average those numbers in. Also remember anything that has been sharpened more than a micro bevel isn't an accurate measurement and I won't be adding those. We're looking for factory ground edge bevels here.

Example of how I'm asking everyone to measure and format their numbers can be found here viewtopic.php?p=1130365#p1130365)

Hey David,

I came across this thread and thought immediately "this would be better as a spreadsheet."

So I made one, as well as a google form which feeds the spreadsheet. Unfortunately, it looks like I pulled your data right before you updated it today, so it's already in need of updating!

If you like it and want edit access you so you can manually enter stuff I'm happy to share that with you. Probably better if everyone else can view but not edit, and to take submission via the form. Also happy to share edit access to the form if you like, just PM me your gmail.

If this is silly, please feel free to ignore; only took about 10 minutes.

Native 5 G-10 Rex 45:
.023/.116/.125

I also added them to the form and it works. :)

Would it be possible to have the spreadsheet average the numbers if multiple people give input on the same model? Also the formatting in the spreadsheet shows my measurements right justified vs. left for the numbers that were already input.

Just measured a couple of new ones. This PM2 is not representative of what I’ve seen on average. It’s the best one of 3. I sold the others due to thickness being bigger than I prefer.

S45VN PM2
0.019/0.020/0.018

204p Para 3
0.017/0.021/0.021

I’ll measure and post about my 2 S90V Manixes soon.