Red loctite

[FCM415]

Doing a bit of research on this show that Red Loctite requires 550 degrees to free. That's a bit high for my liking when all of my knives are FRN. The recommendation on Loctite's site also shows to advisory to not use on plastic parts.

Loctite make a liquid remover, which I would think would be the safest bet. I likely would not heat up screws for fear of warping or damaging the FRN.

http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/product- ... 7919477761

I doubt that it takes 550 degrees to free enough to break it loose. I am pretty certain I haven't gotten mine that hot. I wonder why Loctite advises not using on plastic though?

Probably has chemicals that degrade plastic. I assume FRN is a high end polymer but probably best to take care when applying anything.

Even car air freshener of all things has chemicals that melt plastic on a 2016 vehicle. Don't ask how I know :o

[wrdwrght]

Spyderco's silence at this point may have more to do with SHOT Show than anything else.

This thread was started well before SHOT.

Thank you for stating the obvious. My point was remind ourselves to put a pause on our consternation so we don't blow our collective minds.

[NickShabazz]

My point was remind ourselves to put a pause on our consternation so we don't blow our collective minds.

Good point. And even if it has nothing to do with SHOT, I'd rather a slow and deliberate response than a quick and bad one. They're kind of painted into a corner, stuck between "People should be able to maintain or service their tools (even though our warranty says otherwise)" and "People should not be able to maintain or service their tools (even though our customers and competitors say otherwise)". I rather suspect that addressing the concerns raised by their fans here will require some careful discussion among the various higher-ups, and a satisfactory answer will probably require changes in policy, whether to threadlocker choice, warranty policy, willingness to provide parts, or something else entirely.

This needs to be addressed officially, and Spyderco's silence here is absolutely concerning as a fan of the brand's higher-end offerings, but I'd rather they think this through, do what's needed to fix this in the long term, and take the concerns voiced here about parts, warranties, and threadlocker hue, to heart.

[Angryvet73]

If it isn't red I don't know what it is, I just stripped out a head on my Para-3. Another question why are the screws so soft, just to keep down cost or to ensure if the locktite is doing what it should the screws will strip? :mad:

[Zatx]

I would gladly pay a slightly higher price on any model of Spyderco to pay the increased cost of warranty claims to accomplish two goals:

• Allow easier knife maintenance for a knife that is mine. I bought it. It's my property. I should be able to do whatever I want to it... including disassembly for any reason, but especially proper knife cleaning and preventative maintenance.
  
  Higher quality hardware. Let's face it; it's very easy to strip screws and their threads. Yeah yeah, I know... you've never stripped a screw after years of removal, but Spyderco's software is very soft. I'm not knocking them for this... it's a smart business move to keep costs down and deliver a quality product at a targeted price point.

I realize I am not an expert on this, nor do I care to be, but from a personal standpoint, I would pay $5 more for any model of Spyderco product. Surely (I'm not calling you Shirley) this would cover the few pennies required for more robust hardware and increased claims. However, lacking specific data, but still having an opinion, I question whether the shift to red loctite has created more claims than it has prevented.

From a purely (uneducated) legal standpoint, attempting to disassemble your knife is not the same as disassembling your knife. So is your warranty voided? Shouldn't Spyderco still have to repair your knife according to their warranty & service process?

[freebird610]

If it isn't red I don't know what it is, I just stripped out a head on my Para-3. Another question why are the screws so soft, just to keep down cost or to ensure if the locktite is doing what it should the screws will strip? :mad:

Seems there is actually a slight difference in the way the screws are machined on the m2 and pm2 in recent production. At least this is what I have noticed. The screws I have found on the newest ones strip much easier then ones that are slightly older. Upon close inspection there is a visible difference. It is difficult to describe but it can be seen. Its almost like on the newer ones there is a slight ring around the torx cut out. The newer ones are a little more lose when the torx is inserted. The torx bit also just seems to rotate right out when any real pressure is applied. Not sure if this is intentional or not.

[Taypo]

Seems there is actually a slight difference in the way the screws are machined on the m2 and pm2 in recent production. At least this is what I have noticed. The screws I have found on the newest ones strip much easier then ones that are slightly older. Upon close inspection there is a visible difference. It is difficult to describe but it can be seen. Its almost like on the newer ones there is a slight ring around the torx cut out. The newer ones are a little more lose when the torx is inserted. The torx bit also just seems to rotate right out when any real pressure is applied. Not sure if this is intentional or not.

Spyderco has been doing this for a lot of years and I imagine they've got QC down to a science at this point. I have a hard time believing that they'd miss something like softer screws, but who knows...

[Zatx]

There is less consistency in the screw heads as well. Some of my frame screws need a torx one size larger than normal. On my new PM2 scale screws a T9 may fit better than a T8 and this is on the same knife with the identical torx bit.

[Bodog]

There is less consistency in the screw heads as well. Some of my frame screws need a torx one size larger than normal. On my new PM2 scale screws a T9 may fit better than a T8 and this is on the same knife with the identical torx bit.

Is there a way you (or anyone else reading this) could get some calipers in there to check? Or someone with a good set of wihas verify that they seem to be cut between normal sizes? I (and I'm sure other people do too) have some questions but I really don't want to ask them out loud until some baseline evidence is shown to be irrefutable.

[freebird610]

There is less consistency in the screw heads as well. Some of my frame screws need a torx one size larger than normal. On my new PM2 scale screws a T9 may fit better than a T8 and this is on the same knife with the identical torx bit.

Is there a way you (or anyone else reading this) could get some calipers in there to check? Or someone with a good set of wihas verify that they seem to be cut between normal sizes? I (and I'm sure other people do too) have some questions but I really don't want to ask them out loud until some baseline evidence is shown to be irrefutable.

I have wiha bits and s t9 does work in some of them. They appear to me to be in between sizes.

[Bodog]

There is less consistency in the screw heads as well. Some of my frame screws need a torx one size larger than normal. On my new PM2 scale screws a T9 may fit better than a T8 and this is on the same knife with the identical torx bit.

Is there a way you (or anyone else reading this) could get some calipers in there to check? Or someone with a good set of wihas verify that they seem to be cut between normal sizes? I (and I'm sure other people do too) have some questions but I really don't want to ask them out loud until some baseline evidence is shown to be irrefutable.

I have wiha bits and s t9 does work in some of them. They appear to me to be in between sizes.

If that's true then no bueno. They still fit tightly in all the rest?

[wrdwrght]

I just cancelled my Para3 pre-order at KW (they're out of stock) and will wait to hear what Spyderco says about red loctite.

As a rule, I don't open my Spydies, even to change scales.

I find a soak in sudsy water, a rinse, a blow-dry with my air compressor, then a dab of Nano oil keeps my pivots and locks working just fine.

BUT, I want the option of opening up a Spydie (or merely adjusting the pivot) without having to risk the screws...

In lieu of my Para3 pre-order, I went ahead and pre-ordered a Police4. If I hear it has red loctite, I'll cancel it, too.

[Bill1170]

Doing a bit of research on this show that Red Loctite requires 550 degrees to free. That's a bit high for my liking when all of my knives are FRN. The recommendation on Loctite's site also shows to advisory to not use on plastic parts.

Loctite make a liquid remover, which I would think would be the safest bet. I likely would not heat up screws for fear of warping or damaging the FRN.

http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/product- ... 7919477761

I doubt that it takes 550 degrees to free enough to break it loose. I am pretty certain I haven't gotten mine that hot. I wonder why Loctite advises not using on plastic though?

Cured Loctite is a plastic, so the solvent/remover will likely damage other plastics that are chemically similar.

[usernames_are_hard]

Hi Guys,

Weighing in on the side of reverting back to blue Loctite. I really feel that having the ability to strip down your knife if required ( even knowing that you are voluntarily voiding your warranty ) is a key part of premium knife ownership. We all love our knives, and knife maintenance is an integral part of that enjoyable relationship.

For me, Spyderco more than any other knife maker, seems to represent the lofty goal of putting functionality above all other factors. Spyderco knives are trusted workhorses that are designed to do a job, and any beauty that is inherent stems directly from their deep task-focus. Not being able to perform some aspects of knife maintenance detracts from this functionality-first approach and will most likely elicit a fairly emotional response from the community.

I don't want to be a fair-weather friend to Spyderco, especially given how compelling all of the positive aspects are. I will remain a Spyderco advocate for all of the aforementioned reasons, but if this is indeed the new approach then it definitely dampens my ardour somewhat and will be a negative factor when weighing up new knives At a minimum it will probably make me wait for the dust to settle before I buy the "next big one".

Hopefully we get a good outcome from the Spyderco team soon.

I'm sad. Going to go sharpen something now, maybe that will help...

[Zatx]

I just cancelled my Para3 pre-order at KW (they're out of stock) and will wait to hear what Spyderco says about red loctite.

As a rule, I don't open my Spydies, even to change scales.

I find a soak in sudsy water, a rinse, a blow-dry with my air compressor, then a dab of Nano oil keeps my pivots and locks working just fine.

BUT, I want the option of opening up a Spydie (or merely adjusting the pivot) without having to risk the screws...

In lieu of my Para3 pre-order, I went ahead and pre-ordered a Police4. If I hear it has red loctite, I'll cancel it, too.

Pretty sure it's all new models out of Golden. At least it was true for my new PM2 and Para 3.

[freebird610]

There is less consistency in the screw heads as well. Some of my frame screws need a torx one size larger than normal. On my new PM2 scale screws a T9 may fit better than a T8 and this is on the same knife with the identical torx bit.

Is there a way you (or anyone else reading this) could get some calipers in there to check? Or someone with a good set of wihas verify that they seem to be cut between normal sizes? I (and I'm sure other people do too) have some questions but I really don't want to ask them out loud until some baseline evidence is shown to be irrefutable.

I have wiha bits and s t9 does work in some of them. They appear to me to be in between sizes.

If that's true then no bueno. They still fit tightly in all the rest?

In the older style screws. I have studied them enough and can visually tell the difference. Its like the bit just wants to rotate right out of the newer ones. Bad thing is the t 9 is just a little too large to fully insert into the screw. It fits in but not all the way. So basically the t8 doesn't work good and neither does the t9.

[NickShabazz]

Well, we have an answer of sorts from Sal, from http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... st16864571:

There are many of our customers that use their knives for real world issues. Hate to have a pivot work out at the wrong time.

sal

That's a great argument for using some kind of a threadlocker rather than bare metal, but not for permanent, red threadlocker. I hope Spyderco takes the time to address the concerns raised in this thread, for those of us who want to be able to maintain our tools for use in real-world issues, and for whom Spyderco going red is a big problem.

[MarkJ]

Just got my first Spyderco, a Para 3. The flipping action was pretty stiff, nothing like all those Para's I've seen on Youtube with the sweet action. So I came here and started reading this thread. I have decent mechanical skills but I was still dreading messing with a new expensive (for me) knife. So I got a couple of good quality torq bits and heated up my soldering iron. I took my time and gave each screw plenty of time to get hot. The screws broke free very easily. I didn't take the knife all the way down, I just adjusted the pivot screws. Worked like a charm, the action is now really nice. I just thought maybe some of you guys would be interested in my experience. I just love this knife!

[The Deacon]

Just got my first Spyderco, a Para 3. The flipping action was pretty stiff, nothing like all those Para's I've seen on Youtube with the sweet action. So I came here and started reading this thread. I have decent mechanical skills but I was still dreading messing with a new expensive (for me) knife. So I got a couple of good quality torq bits and heated up my soldering iron. I took my time and gave each screw plenty of time to get hot. The screws broke free very easily. I didn't take the knife all the way down, I just adjusted the pivot screws. Worked like a charm, the action is now really nice. I just thought maybe some of you guys would be interested in my experience. I just love this knife!

Good to hear that there's at least one person out there who understands that brute force is not the answer to a recalcitrant screw. Too many idiots just keep applying arm moxie until something gives, usually the wrong thing. Then they blame the screw, or the product in general, or the driver, but never themselves.

[mrtodd777]

Just got my first Spyderco, a Para 3. The flipping action was pretty stiff, nothing like all those Para's I've seen on Youtube with the sweet action. So I came here and started reading this thread. I have decent mechanical skills but I was still dreading messing with a new expensive (for me) knife. So I got a couple of good quality torq bits and heated up my soldering iron. I took my time and gave each screw plenty of time to get hot. The screws broke free very easily. I didn't take the knife all the way down, I just adjusted the pivot screws. Worked like a charm, the action is now really nice. I just thought maybe some of you guys would be interested in my experience. I just love this knife!

Good to hear that there's at least one person out there who understands that brute force is not the answer to a recalcitrant screw. Too many idiots just keep applying arm moxie until something gives, usually the wrong thing. Then they blame the screw, or the product in general, or the driver, but never themselves.

EXACTLY.