Spyderco Forums

swigert wrote:

sal wrote:Hi GS,

We have no control over the examples you mentioned. Also, please keep in mind that do not feel that it is our place to tell others how to run their business. Sometimes, like MAP, we feel it is our responsibility to try to be fair.

sal

This is what I was hoping to hear.

If that is the case, than what is the point of MAP? It seems like it will just drive people to the websites that have a way around the MAP pricing.

sal wrote:Hi GS,

We have no control over the examples you mentioned. Also, please keep in mind that do not feel that it is our place to tell others how to run their business. Sometimes, like MAP, we feel it is our responsibility to try to be fair.

sal

Great, thanks Sal! As swigert said, this is what I was hoping would be the case. I guess I just misinterpreted it originally. Thanks for the clarification. :)

The excitement of buying new knives is one of my favorite parts of the Sypderco phenomenon and I'm sure that's true of a lot of us. Usually these purchases push my financial envelope a bit (well, a lot :)) so it's especially exciting to get some kind of a "deal." Of course this is always possible in the secondary market, which accounts for about a fourth of my knives, most bought used but some NIB. I like to think that even these purchases help Spyderco, because the people I buy them from usually spend the money on more Spydercos :)

From what I read above, the possibility for deals from dealers still exists, they just may not be able to broadly advertise them as such.

My financial situation is such that I sometimes wait months for a knife price to drop. When knives are discontinued sometimes Spyderco lists a sale price at spyderco.com. So here's my questions, and it may actually take some time for the answers to work themselves out.

When Spyderco reduces a price on their site, does the dealer MAP then become 60% of the reduced price?

Will the MAP be reduced for any other discontinued or slow moving knives?

Answered my own question

I have been fortunate enough to purchase a significant amount of Spyderco knives this year. My first ever knife was a Benchmade and I was a repeat consumer of theirs until they implemented MAP. I have not purchased from them since. Instead, I turned to Spyderco.

To say the least, this decision is a disappointment to me. While I feel I could go on and on as to why, I don't think in the end, it would really matter.

Decisions have been made and we are left to make our own decisions in turn. Mine have always been based on the support of freedom, the freedom of markets, of individuals, and the freedom for a company to make decisions based on what they see as the best path forward even if a portion of their consumer base disagrees.

So Spyderco, I hope this decision benefits you in the long term, even if it serves to alienate me and others who feel this is not a decision made to benefit your loyal consumers.

Edited to add links to two articles that add perspective to this issue.

http://knifenews.com/why-is-knivesshipf ... -spyderco/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://knifenews.com/can-spyderco-hold- ... ap-policy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spyderco can sell their knives for whatever price they see fit. That's the right you get when you put skin in the game. If I think the price is reasonable and can afford it I buy. If I think it is overpriced I don't. If your life or livelihood depends on a knife there are very good options available on the lower end of the price scale. I mean very good, head and shoulders above what was readily available when I was much younger.

I see the rational in keeping a larger group of dealers carrying the product (not keeping all your eggs in one basket) this will I think benefit everyone (Spyderco, Dealers and ELU's) in the long run. I've been lucky enough to make a career because I am willing to make decisions, are they always right? no. Am I trying to make the best possible decision for everyone involved with the information available to me? yes.

I've been dedicated to Spyderco for a long-time now with my purchases. I have been slowing down on purchases for a number of reasons. This won't change anything. Hoping it address the issues at hand.

Example: Say an Endura Wave is currently around 70 dollars from an online seller like Knife Outlet. Will I still be able to buy that Endura for 70 dollars when this MAP happens, or will the price go up?

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:Example: Say an Endura Wave is currently around 70 dollars from an online seller like Knife Outlet. Will I still be able to buy that Endura for 70 dollars when this MAP happens, or will the price go up?

According to Knife Outlet's website, the "around $70" you're quoting for the Endura Wave is actually $74.95

According to Spyderco's website, current MSRP for the Endura Wave is $129.95

According to Spyderco's announcement, dealers will be allowed to advertise prices discounted by up to 40% off MSRP. It also states that MSRP will not be going up this year.

According to my calculator, that will put the MAP for the Endura Wave at $77.97

So MAP would be roughly $3 higher than current price. So the ADVERTISED price will go up. Of course, since KO charges $6.95 for shipping, they could raise the price to $81.95 and offer free shipping, or throw in freebies of some kind, or switch to a "call for price" system and quote you $74.95 when you call, or choose to take one of the other end runs around MAP pricing.

I think it is important to note that there have been a number of reminders that this is only the minimum price that can be advertised. Dealers can sell for any price they want (both above or below this price) they will just be restricted from advertising below it.

It will not take long to determine what dealers are willing to offer a price which is reduced from the MAP (or offering incentives like described above). This will also not restrict sales or other promotional events but will make them slightly less efficient for dealers. That is the cost they take on for having some level of protection with MAP pricing.

This is how Glocks are sold in Canada amongst other things.

As with other companies that use map, dealers just work around it, they will advertise the map or above then ask you to call or email in to reveal the discount or true price. Some dealers frustratingly don't advertise prices on entire lines of knives and require you to request the price on each individual item, they aren't advertising the price so they can set it below map. I.E how is map supposed to support perceived value of a product when dealers simply refuse to advertise it.

This won't make spydercos more expensive on the whole, as dealers are not bound to sell at any price, only the price they advertise the item at. The bummer for us as the consumer is that comparing prices, finding discounts and shopping for spyderco products in general just got a lot harder.

IMo map just muddies the waters and adds another deterrent when making a purchase as it forces dealers into these tactics to compete, if you pay map or above you know already potentially the price is not the cheapest, so your other option is to buy off dealer who sells under map using one of the tools I mentioned, now it feels like some shady backroom deal just to get the best price or support your regular dealer.
In theory map might be a good idea but in practice it is frustrating for the purchaser.

For some, cheaper is always better. Better than quality, better than service. I'll guess we'll see how it rolls out.

sal

Interesting read. How did I miss it.
Thanks G-d that this didn't happened 10 years ago. I would miss a lot of Spydies.

Out of curiosity, would deals like this current promo for the Ti Military on Massdrop be allowed once MAP is in effect? It looks like this one is set at about 54% off MSRP.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/spyderco-t ... guest_open" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The way Massdrop works is a little different than a normal "shopping cart" retailer in that you have to be a member of the site (free) and there have to be enough buyers to meet the minimum requirement to get the volume purchase deal as a group...but the volume prices are "advertised" via Massdrop's email marketing.

(Since Massdrop does do deals on many other knife brands who likely have MAP policies, maybe this type of promo is still OK?)

p.s. - Sorry if I'm not supposed to post the link to the promo...I just wanted to post it as an example of a type of purchase option.

sal wrote:For some, cheaper is always better. Better than quality, better than service. I'll guess we'll see how it rolls out.

sal

Sir,

I agree with you. There are people for who cheaper is always better and most important. These are people, who are buying gas station and flea market knives for $3-$5 a piece. I do not think than any of them are on the market for :spyder: with MAP or without it.

As far as dealers...working around MAP....I don't see many working around prices on ZT or Benchmade at all. A 477-1 is ~ $190 everywhere. A ZT 450 is $160 everywhere.
The only time I see prices fluctuate is with dealer exclusives.

Personally I'm just going to wait and see what happens. Paying a little more isn't great but if this helps Spyderco continue to do what it's been doing then I'm all for it.

I went and retrieved my PM2 from its box. I looked at it carefully. Opened it. Cut some stuff. Closed it. Would I buy this knife again if it cost $20 more? Absolutely. Why? To me it's not just a knife, it's a Spyderco. Why is this important? See my previous post, "The Writing on the Wall". MAP, a tempest in a teacup. If it's that much of an issue, shop at Walmart.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68456" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Liquid Cobra wrote:Personally I'm just going to wait and see what happens. Paying a little more isn't great but if this helps Spyderco continue to do what it's been doing then I'm all for it.

+1

I've considered the purchase price for every item I've ever purchased I am sure most other do too. If spyderco knives become too expensive, we stop buying them. Pretty straight forward.

Ryno wrote:I've considered the purchase price for every item I've ever purchased I am sure most other do too.

Sadly, but I am think that there are plenty of people who do not. Read forums and you will see a lot of "impulse buy". I personally consider myself a very frugal spender in all areas, except my family and Spydercos.

Ryno wrote: If spyderco knives become too expensive, we stop buying them. Pretty straight forward.

Spyderco knives became a little more expensive at some dealers, who sell below 60% of MSRP. So prices at knife center will not change. Prices at KW and CS will go up a little and still will be less than KC and many others.