New Gayle Bradley...disappointed

[jackknifeh]

Paddy, you may have covered this so apologies if so. I was wondering what your plans are for sharpening knives. Do you already sharpen your own or will that be a new thing? Just curious. Since all knives aren't super sharp or even when they are a sharpening will need to be done sooner or later.

Jack

[Paddy B]

I sharpen my own on a sharpmaker. Used a lansky for years, but once I started with the sharpmaker, I never went back. I have said a couple times during the course of this thread, I am NOT what I think to be considered an expert. I am, however, happy with the edges I have produced so far. They tend to be markedly better than the factory edge. I also appreciate the nice acute bevel spyderco typically grinds on their factory edge...makes my life a lot easier. I also have benchmades and they are all over the map out of the box regarding edge grind. It's why I mainly am interested in spyderco, and that's why it really floored me how bad it was out of the box. The scratch was terrible, too. Wish I had taken pics before sending it back. I like to eventually get my edges at 30 degrees with the 40 degree micro bevel. When the blades edge is laid back real nice, it makes the amount of metal I have to remove that much less. Even with the diamond rods, metal removal is painfully slow if the angles are way off.

[Blerv]

Yea it's a game of surface grit vs speed and those sticks don't have much of either. For conventional blade shapes a nice benchstone is really handy. The majority of my sharpening (I'm a n00b) comes from a Spyderco Fine 2x8. In those dimensions it's actually quite usable; a couple strokes and you are good to go. Not to push you towards dumping money in sharpening equipment but they sure are nice. :)

[Paddy B]

I'd love to learn how to use bench stones. I just honestly don't know where to start regarding technique or equipment.

[jackknifeh]

I'd love to learn how to use bench stones. I just honestly don't know where to start regarding technique or equipment.

The Spyderco stones are a great place to start IMO regarding which stones to start with. They don't cover the coarser grits at all however. Reprofiling a knife could take a pretty long time if starting with the brown medium grit. But if your knifes are already sharp with a pretty decent back bevel they will maintain that forever. The 30 and 40 degree bevels are fine for most EDC knives even though Spyderco's selection of blade steels can hold up with lower angles IMO. If you do need coarser stones I think diamond stones are fine. A coarse DMT would be a good choice. They come in 2"x6" sizes in addition to the 3x8" sizes to save money. This is what I believe but as long as you get quality stones that several people on this forum or others like you are probably good to go.

As far as where to start, I believe a plan is better than having no real plan. I have been sharpening my own pocket knives all my life with no plan other than what Dad showed me when I was a kid. In the past 10-12 months I've tried to improve with using bench stones. I put a thread on this forum in the off-topic forum where I posted videos of a technique that I believe to be as simple as it gets when free hand sharpening. I started using this technique a month or so ago. It's not a better technique than other's but I think it's a good place to start for people new to bench stones. What I am doing now is very simple and easily explained. The way to hold the knife is very specific and the stroke is very specific. While this is not "better" than other methods it is a very specific way to start and easy to copy. After getting used to this way and getting knives very sharp with even bevels on both sides of the edge then it would be time to alter the technique to your own liking. I just don't think it's helpful to tell a new person to any skill to "do what feels best". You say that when a person learning any skill has a basic understanding and procedure. I also put a video on youtube titled "free hand technique, beginner". It is the same technique as I put here but instead of multiple shorter videos, the one on youtube is one continuous video. I'm going to emphasize I am no pro but am learning. So, check out the video if you want. It may help, may not. You just said you use the Sharpmaker. Sorry I missed that in other posts. That is a great tool to keep your edges razor sharp.

If you ever do start using bench stones there are lots of guys here eager to help. I learned TONS about sharpening on this forum.

Jack

[Cliff Stamp]

Cliff, while much of what you wrote is accurate, calling people "shills" is (1) factually untrue and (2) unnecessarily provocative.

It is a word with a defined meaning, it isn't positive, but I would defend it is accurate as it is trivial to demonstrate. In general people do not appreciate it being pointed out, the solution to that I would recommend is not to pretend that shills do not exist.

[senorsquare]

I would recommend you ignore the shills and focus on the people who have objective viewpoints, the ignore button is your friend.

Another recommendation might be to give the manufacturer and/or dealer an opportunity to rectify the problem before disparaging their product in a public forum.

[sal]

Hi Paddy B,

I'm sorry for your disappointment and for the negatives that came out in the thread. Sometimes passion for a product or company can influence words.

Hopefully, your next try will serve you well.

sal

[senorsquare]

...I also appreciate the nice acute bevel spyderco typically grinds on their factory edge...makes my life a lot easier. I also have benchmades and they are all over the map out of the box regarding edge grind. It's why I mainly am interested in spyderco, and that's why it really floored me how bad it was out of the box...

The majority of spydercos I've bought have come to me razor sharp but there have been a few that needed some sharpening right out of the box. I've also had a couple that had some variation in the width and angle of the bevels. While we want all our new knives to be perfect, these are things that you are going to see from time to time with production knives. They typically don't bother me and I usually take it upon myself to correct them, but if there were egregious QC issues then I wouldn't hesitate to send the knife back.

[Cliff Stamp]

Another recommendation might be to give the manufacturer and/or dealer an opportunity to rectify the problem before disparaging their product in a public forum.

If you do not welcome criticism as you do praise then you are running a shill forum.

There is absolutely no need for Spyderco to resort to such behavior, their products are actually of sufficient quality to withstand critical review.

[wrdwrght]

So, should we begin a witch-hunt for the shills, Cliff? Your criticism is a cheap shot, and not a little condescending, for want of identity.

[tvenuto]

Internet forums, the place where people put words in your mouth.

[Blerv]

If you do not welcome criticism as you do praise then you are running a shill forum.

A group of people congregating to a place who share a similar response, not even the majority, are not "running a shill forum". Per Sal's last quote it's not his intent either. Sometimes people just respond with their gut to the tone or content instead of a reasoned response, this is typically pandering or disparagement with little grey between.

You have seen plenty of these threads, Cliff. Often a person is justifiably upset and thus doesn't present their stance similar to a thesis paper. In response, a few people take whimsical shots at the person and others join-in. In a perfect world emotions would be set aside, facts would be presented, and everyone would have a calm discussion of protocol and perspectives.

Assuming everyone with a problem is a troll or everyone who defends a brand is a fanboy (or shill) is sensationalism as well; sometimes people just get annoyed and some topics are just a bit hot to approach without a high chance of pyrotechnics. The OP could have written the perfect (100%) Shakespearean post and it would have still been a gamble with Vegas odds.

Paddy seems like a great person. Looking forward to more threads that I agree and disagree with. Even folks with gruff approaches (Chuck :p ) contribute a ton of great content here. IMHO, the ignore filter should be used but as a last resort if a person brings nothing to your life but frustration. If you can weather the annoyances almost anyone can teach something.

[jackknifeh]

I think buying a knife and a car are similar in that I think a new car should come with a full tank of gas. Not necessarilly the older car you buy as a fixer-upper but a new car. You know the price will include the gas so the dealership shouldn't mind. I also think a new knife should be sharp. Not the older knife you buy as a fixer-upper but a new knife. The manufacturer shouldn't mind because they will have to charge for that service as well. This is a general opinion I have for any car or knife manufacturer.

In either situation you are going to need to fill your car up and you will need to sharpen your knife. So, the initial purchase of a car or knife is based on the car or knife. The fill up or sharpening is on us.

Paddy? When do you expect your GB? Tomorrow? Hope you get a goodun. :)

Jack

[Paddy B]

I hope so! I'm really excited to get to use such a high quality, high pride of ownership item. I'm sorry that this thread turned a little ugly. It was never my intent at all to fire up people's emotions. I simply wanted to share an experience I had with one knife. I have bought, and will continue to buy Spyderco products because I have been consistently impressed with the quality and pride of ownership they instill. I know the owner reads the forum, and I'm assuming he does because he appreciates feedback on his products, whether good or bad. I won't let one bad apple spoil the bunch. Quite the contrary, as I've been reading and participating in this thread, I've been reading others and eyeing other knives I'd like to acquire in the near future. I got a little hung up on the sharpening comments made towards me, and for that I'm sorry. It ended up overshadowing the main problem with the knife and that was the major scratch in the scale. In any event, please don't continue to argue in this thread. We all share a common interest in Spyderco, and all other things sharp, I'm sure. Fighting amongst each other can only bring more animosity and ill will, so please, let's stop. I look forward to reporting on my new Gayle Bradley shortly!

[nccole]

I think buying a knife and a car are similar in that I think a new car should come with a full tank of gas. Not necessarilly the older car you buy as a fixer-upper but a new car. You know the price will include the gas so the dealership shouldn't mind. I also think a new knife should be sharp. Not the older knife you buy as a fixer-upper but a new knife. The manufacturer shouldn't mind because they will have to charge for that service as well. This is a general opinion I have for any car or knife manufacturer.

In either situation you are going to need to fill your car up and you will need to sharpen your knife. So, the initial purchase of a car or knife is based on the car or knife. The fill up or sharpening is on us.

Paddy? When do you expect your GB? Tomorrow? Hope you get a goodun. :)

Jack

Are you saying new cars come with their tanks full of gas? I bought a used car and they made me wait another half hour to drive it away because they wanted to clean and detail it for me, but it had about a quarter tank of gas. I bought it in Chicago and drove it Detroit. I was a little annoyed with the waiting as it took forever to buy the **** thing and I paid cash for it, but I guess I appreciated the clean car (never been that clean since :p ). I have never bought a new car, I have never spent over $10,000 on a car actually. Anyway, I see your point, but would expect a knife to be sharp more so than a car full of gas. Maybe brand new brake pads, and a sharp knife would be a better comparison. A knife's main purpose is to cut, and I absolutely think it should come sharp and ready to do work just as a car should be ready to stop. I wouldn't get upset if it didn't, and wouldn't consider doing a thing about it except sharpen it myself, but can't fault a guy for doing what he feels is right. I think out of ~25 Spydies, I have had one or two that wouldn't shave, but all would slice paper.

[FCM415]

I made the habit of requesting dealers to double check that they are sending me an ideal specimen since obviously I cant ge to hold them in person. Darn near all of the "goto" dealers have a comment section it's a good idea to take advantage of it. Another option is phoning in an order and request it then.

This should prevent disappointments even more moving forward. You want sharp blade, ask them to check for you.

[gbelleh]

Proper sharpening requires much more skill than filling up a gas tank (I know, because I can't seem to "sharpen" a knife without making it duller). I have a couple knives that I haven't used yet because they came out of the box dull (butter knife dull). The worst is my Moonglow Native 5. Sometimes I think I'm the only one on this forum that doesn't enjoy sharpening. So far my Spydie collection (addiction) has allowed me to get by for over 4 years now without needing to sharpen a knife yet!

[nccole]

Proper sharpening requires much more skill than filling up a gas tank (I know, because I can't seem to "sharpen" a knife without making it duller). I have a couple knives that I haven't used yet because they came out of the box dull (butter knife dull). The worst is my Moonglow Native 5. Sometimes I think I'm the only one on this forum that doesn't enjoy sharpening. So far my Spydie collection (addiction) has allowed me to get by for over 4 years now without needing to sharpen a knife yet!

A very expensive way to do it! Since we are doing analogies, that is like never washing clothes, but instead buying new jeans and only wearing them twice, or more if they don't smell or appear soiled :D Do you wear stinky clothes? :p At least you won't end up with the dreaded shredded pockets.

[Cliff Stamp]

A group of people congregating to a place who share a similar response, not even the majority, are not "running a shill forum". Per Sal's last quote it's not his intent either.

It is clear that isn't Sal's intent which has always been the exact opposite, however, and unfortunately, regardless of that, if the users have that viewpoint they can create it anyway and it doesn't even take the majority of people to do it. It only takes a small minority which can exert enough of an influence to make a significant change in how information is presented, even 1-2 people who are vocal enough can make people feel unwelcome who are voicing criticisms and they will just go elsewhere. All this does is remove the information from Sal's awareness, reduce his/their ability to provide customer service, and intensify the perception of the people who go elsewhere that they are justified because the manufacturer doesn't want to hear about problems, even though Sal doesn't have this position.

Again, when you attempt to exert pressure to censor negative comments you are saying that you do not believe that Spyderco makes a product which can complete under objective evaluations and that evaluations have to be censored because of poor performance of the product. It is one of the strongest slurs you can make against the products of a company to say that they can not complete without misrepresentation. I certainly do not believe this is the case.