Spyderco Forums

Wow this thread sure got out of hand. If a person were to boycott every company that has ever let a manufacturing error slip through the door, that person would have to live on a deserted island naked, because no company in existence is that perfect.

What separates Spyderco from the rest is that they make it right in the end.

After reading nozh2002's posts in this thread and Sal's responses taking full responsibility and giving a bit of insight to what is involved in making the Mules, I have to say I'm even more of a Spyderco fan. I use to only buy one Mule but in the future it's going to be two. You guys rock.

nozh2002 wrote: I am finished.

P.S. Ha! It just hit me now - Spyderco recall Mule 12 for poor performance. This performance statistically same as CPM S30V performance. So CPM S30V is "Golden Standard", but if other steel cuts like it - should be recalled right away whole bunch...

This is one reason why you got banned at BFC. You don't know when to quit.
Hopefully, you really are finished here, but I sincerely doubt it. You'll keep pushing till Sal, who has up till now shown the patience of a saint, finally DOES say "F&%* it" and then you'll be gone from another forum.

Evil D wrote:Wow this thread sure got out of hand. If a person were to boycott every company that has ever let a manufacturing error slip through the door, that person would have to live on a deserted island naked, because no company in existence is that perfect.

What separates Spyderco from the rest is that they make it right in the end.

But how many companies openly tell customer that his complain is "sh*t"? How many of them threaten to stop production if this complain will not stop? How many tolerate if not inspire fan boys to kind of parade of loyalty I see here?

I boycott Spyderco for this handling - my posts is not kiss up, which Sal get used to here, but I think it was respectful (hate this stuff - see a lot of this back in USSR - ultimate love to" great Communist leadership", had enough). Seems like Sal got carried away with the rest of the crowd here. But he is not random fan boy, he is Spyderco and so I am going to ignore Spyderco products, same as I ignore all this fan boy loyalty manifestations.

From other hand I do not want to wast my money (and quite some my bucks went to Spyderco already) on product which very well may be recalled soon as it was happened twice already, recalled after I already spend several days working on it.

And to make it right - they should fix my Mule or exchange it to same one with proper HT. Here they just return money for blank, and no guarantee that I have one fixed back. Only their lost is shipment they pay. And if they will be able to fix it, I may be able buy one of them. However in case of ZDP-189 they did not fix them and never release back.

If someone thinks that the Mule team should be run differently, or that it is off track... I think it is only right for them to call out on it.

I am sure Sal will put it in his notebook that Vassili doesn't think it is as good as it could be and everyone else thinks it is as good as it can be.

I like that there are opinions. Some people think that they need to buy every Mule and don't like when there are so many mules that they can't buy them all. These people seem to be the ones who complain the most. I think people should pick and choose which ones they want to buy.

nozh2002 wrote:But how many companies openly tell customer that his complain is "sh*t"? How many of them threaten to stop production if this complain will not stop? How many tolerate if not inspire fan boys to kind of parade of loyalty I see here?

How many companies? Well, most other companies don't interact with their customers. But if they did, and they had to deal with you, then I'd wager that 100% of them would say the same thing or worse. One of the only company owners that is as transparent as Sal and Spyderco is Jim Jannard over at RED, who has a "sh*t-list" that you would have made long ago (besides being banned outright). What you don't seem to understand is that complaints are fine, but the utter irrationality that you possess is what is causing the problem.

Sal didn't threaten to stop production. He merely pointed out that there are two options: offer the Mules (which, due to the nature of the project, may have unforeseen problems) or not offer them at all. You missed the subtext which was basically: we're going to keep making the Mules for everyone else, even if it means putting up with your whining.

What companies inspire fanboys? Typically ones that make superb products. Spyderco, RED, Ferrari, Apple, Harley Davidson, Rolex, PIXAR, Starbucks, Glock...I could keep going, but this will do. All of these companies have very dedicated "fanboys", so I'd have to say that Spyderco is in good company here. All of them have turned out a less than stellar product from time to time, and even some that were recalled. But the fact that they do their best to rectify the problems and the scarcity of the problems in the first place is what gets them their fans.

nozh2002 wrote:I boycott Spyderco for this handling - my posts is not kiss up, which Sal get used to here, but I think it was respectful

There is obviously a language barrier here, as "respectful" must mean exactly the opposite of what you think it means. You show absolutely no уважение. Sal apologizes to you and you basically crap on his apology. I think what you're trying to say is: nozh2002 не уважает вообще. (Russian provided courtesy of Google Translate).

nozh2002 wrote:I do not want to wast my money (and quite some my bucks went to Spyderco already) on product which very well may be recalled soon as it was happened twice already...

Hope you don't own a car, as Toyota, Ford, Honda, GM, Nissan, Dodge, etc have recalled millions of vehicles from time to time as well. Every single one of these manufacturers has had much more than only two recalls and I'm sure more will happen. You think they'd test their $20,000-50,000 vehicles before selling them... I would also think that Apple would have tested out their iPhone 4 antennas and 27" monitors and 1.8 million potential exploding laptop batteries before selling them, Pixar should have read the script for Cars 2 before making that steaming pile of a movie, Glock should have tested out the model 36 before shipping them with defective trigger safeties, GE shouldn't have sold a dishwasher that catches on fire (it takes a lot of work to install and then uninstall, and then reinstall a dishwasher), Johnson & Johnson should have tested their children's medicines better, well...you get the idea. Recalls happen. End of story. If you don't believe me, look it up. The internet is full of information.

Edited. Funny but un-PC.

jabba359 wrote: There is obviously a language barrier here, as "respectful" must mean exactly the opposite of what you think it means. You show absolutely no уважение. Sal apologizes to you and you basically crap on his apology. I think what you're trying to say is: nozh2002 не уважает вообще. (Russian provided courtesy of Google Translate).

Well I guess you mix up terms here - "kissing up" and "respect" is different things. If I say - "I am not happy about all those trouble, because of quality control failure, which I do not consider as a minor mistake", I do not see disrespect here, it may be not pleasant to Spyderco but, why it should be? After all this is their fault. When you telling me that by saying this I crap on Spyderco - I see quite a bit of disrespect here towards me... I am customer, I pay money for this product and I am not happy. I want to be sure that there is proper quality control in Spyderco establishe and this will not be played as little scheduler mistake and in reply I only have:

sal wrote:...we can dump the project and not have to put up with your sh*t...
sal

nozh,

I think you have made your point clear by now. Can we agree to disagree and let it go now? Please, this horse was dead long ago.

nozh2002 wrote:Well I guess you mix up terms here - "kissing up" and "respect" is different things. If I say - "I am not happy about all those trouble, because of quality control failure, which I do not consider as a minor mistake", I do not see disrespect here, it may be not pleasant to Spyderco but, why it should be? After all this is their fault. When you telling me that by saying this I crap on Spyderco - I see quite a bit of disrespect here towards me... I am customer, I pay money for this product and I am not happy. I want to be sure that there is proper quality control in Spyderco establishe and this will not be played as little scheduler mistake and in reply I only have:

BRINGING UP A MISTAKE IS NOT DISRESPECTFUL,

HOW YOU CONTINUE to derail this thread with your self serving rants, going on an on about the same things that Sal has apollogized to you THREE TIMES FOR, is probably THE MOST DISRESPECTFUL THING I HAVE EVER SEEN ON THIS FORUM

YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE

dcdesigns wrote:bringing up a mistake is not disrespectful,

how you continue to derail this thread with your self serving rants, going on an on about the same things that sal has apollogized to you three times for, is probably the most disrespectful thing i have ever seen on this forum

you are not wanted here

+1000

razorsharp wrote:+1000

x10

And his circular arguments continue...

I'm getting dizzy.

One member swims against the stream, Sal spoke his mind and now I see a social exclusion snowballing. That's not good ... shiny footprints please.

nozh2002 wrote:But how many companies openly tell customer that his complain is "sh*t"? How many of them threaten to stop production if this complain will not stop? How many tolerate if not inspire fan boys to kind of parade of loyalty I see here?

I guarantee you there isn't a production company in existence that doesn't meet or exceed all of the questions you asked. The difference is that there is a forum here that puts all the details right out in the open and Spyderco shares that info with us. How many other companies does the CEO step in to answer your questions personally? You don't get told your opinion is crap by other companies because those CEO's don't even care enough about your opinion to TELL you it's crap, they just take your money and move on.

How many auto makers have had recalls lately? How many have had recalls in the past? ALL of them.

Loyalty isn't a charity, it is earned. I would much rather a company face up about their mistakes than to do a recall and never tell anybody about it. This tells me that contrary to your opinion, they DO have a tight grip on production. For all we know every other manufacturer out there has put out poorly heat treated knives and never had a recall at all.

So you bought a knife, it got recalled, you got a refund. I don't see what the problem is. I'd hardly say you got ripped off. Would you rather this was brand X and they never did a recall and you were just stuck with a knife that performed poorly? Then you're out money AND stuck with a POS product, and you still didn't get to voice your opinion or be told that it's crap by the CEO of brand X.

jtoler_9 wrote:nozh,

I think you have made your point clear by now. Can we agree to disagree and let it go now? Please, this horse was dead long ago.

Thanks, I hope it would be clear for most noisy part of the crowd as well, it looks like they just warming up. However I am not sure you will be able to reason them.

I'm not ripping on you, i just think you're upset about something trivial and you're only seeing this from that perspective. In the end, i just try to help.

I would like to keep the thread on topic. I have nothing more to say to Nozh. I don't know what he wants. If he doesn't want to purchase our products, that is his freedom. I will say that if I offended you by calling your approach something other than proper, I will aplogize for offending you.

We stopped the mules as fast as we could. We will try to get back all of the Mules. We will re-heat treat them, clean them up, engrave them and offer them again.

That's the best we can do. If that is not acceptable, you again have my apology. You should do what you think is the right thing for you to do.

But please, ?

sal

...and you did good, Spyderco, not just paying back the price of the Mule, shipping and handling but also my shipping to get it back to Golden CO.
THAT is service. I will buy that cruwear blank blind again when it is reoffered again, no hesitate.

Tomas

As Sal would be the first to point out, this is actually not the first glitch with the Mule series. So...? We still have an extraordinary, literally extra-ordinary, effort to bring economical, physically comparable blades to ordinary end users at a price and in a format that allow us to T&E the knives and educate ourselves. It's a cinch little or no money is being made on this project. It's all for love of the art and science of cutlery. What other company has done anything like this for the knife world? :rolleyes: My hat is off to Sal and his crew, with a big thank you. :) :spyder:

sal wrote:I would like to keep the thread on topic. I have nothing more to say to Nozh. I don't know what he wants. If he doesn't want to purchase our products, that is his freedom. I will say that if I offended you by calling your approach something other than proper, I will aplogize for offending you.

We stopped the mules as fast as we could. We will try to get back all of the Mules. We will re-heat treat them, clean them up, engrave them and offer them again.

That's the best we can do. If that is not acceptable, you again have my apology. You should do what you think is the right thing for you to do.

But please, ?

sal