Spyderco Forums

I wouldn't mind keeping this thread going, it has a good purpose. I will try to document the plus and minus, advantage and disadvantage of each lock.

In Sal's OP, he said he wanted more of a long term and less of a short term report of the locks.

I just read the 10 years of this thread. In 2001, some people thought linerlocks were weak and even unsafe. Today, Spyderco uses linerlocks on the following harder use folders: military,Gayle Bradley, rock lobster,Perrin PPT, rescue. What's changed? I would love to hear from the early contributors to this thread, and to the many experts in the knife world.

I too read this thread and got some real eye-openers.
Lock strength and reliability are not one and the same. :eek: I actually never knew that they were two separate attributes.
The linerlock thing bears out my experience. Around the time G10 first became popular as a handle material, I had my first and only lock failure. The linerlock actually failed to hold open! (Relax all...not a Spyderco. ) After reading this thread I think I understand. There was no arc just a flat surface for lockspring engagement. Hard to make a linerlock reliable. Requires enginuity.
My favorite line comes from the original post's ending.
(As OP said I too would like to credit whoever said it first. :) )
"They call them fixed blades cuz they ain't broke."

I love the compression lock, I wish spyderco would make more knives with this locking mechanism.

How tough would it be to do an upsized para, a millie size with a compression lock?

Donut wrote:How tough would it be to do an upsized para, a millie size with a compression lock?

I'd love one. I guess it would be just as hard as making a new design though.

I have to say, if the Military had a compression lock, i might have bought one over my Para 2.

To sum up (from what I remember of this thread...) the compression lock came out somewhere near the top. I don't remember if it was because of lock strength or reliability.
Although a fan of the Military, since this thread, I have been eyeing the Para Military. A compression lock Military would hands down be something I'd like to get my hands on.
(I've only seen pix of the compression lock so just guessing here. But it seems able to be used ambidextrously? Anyone?)

Lord Bear wrote:To sum up (from what I remember of this thread...) the compression lock came out somewhere near the top. I don't remember if it was because of lock strength or reliability.
Although a fan of the Military, since this thread, I have been eyeing the Para Military. A compression lock Military would hands down be something I'd like to get my hands on.
(I've only seen pix of the compression lock so just guessing here. But it seems able to be used ambidextrously? Anyone?)

Yes, it can be used ambidextrously! You have to try it man, you would love it.

I guess it might still be open for discussion, but isn't the Military 2 supposed to have the stop lock? Then I don't see this happening. I would totally be down though.

Unless there are more really great steels released on the Para2 model I won't get any more. I'm not a fan at all. Sure it's strong...but I just find it too uncomfortable under my thumb. If the Comp lock were more middle of the knife, then sure I would be great with it. But I am very very glad that the Military 2 won't have a comp lock.

Though to be fair, I thought that the lock on the Junior was far superior.

Liner lock, back lock, ball bearing lock...all preferred by me over the comp lock.

I also find that most frames locks are not really great for a lefty. Some are ok, depending on the overall design...but as of yet, I don't own a single one.

I made a design that I submitted to spyderco and they liked it enough to proto it. Since then, I've been reading this thread and studying lock patents with the fervor of a fanatic. For my design, I need to divorce the unity of the compression lock in order to have a compression-style lock on my design. I think I may have come up with a new lock and I have to cough up major dough to patent that thing.

I have come to a few conclusions from my studies:
1. American patent law sucks
2. Reliable manufacture requires sloped surfaces.
3. The compression lock is, in my view, the safest way to engage a lock on a blade.

Great thread.
In my experience (fairly limited) the perception of strength is what sold me on certain knives, as an internet knife purchaser i rely on hype to guide me. I hate that, but save buying every variation of knife/lock to test myself its the economic reality.
I like to think i need 'hard use' knives, which is one of the reasons i was attracted to striders briefly, but soon after realized that i dont use my knives hard at all, it was more of an issue that the PT i had was semi difficult to open and close safely, an my priorities shifted. I too find the axis lock on my BM 525 mini to be comfortable, thats what i need in a knife. It has to feel good. You have to want to use it. Id be more likely to rebuy a knife that feels good when its mechanism wore out, than suffer a longer use period with a knife that was stronger but felt like crap opening/closing. Again i can accept this because i realized i wasnt hard on my blades so the ultimate strength became a moot point.
Forgive me if i missed a reference to this or if it was implied in a different mechanism name, but i find the BBL to be my favorite spyderco lock. Its perception of strength is high, its 'cool' factor is high, the issue i have with it is difficulty closing one handed (those who use a manix likely know the 'last three fingers on the clip' closing grip :) ) compared to the axis lock. Its minor in the greater scheme of things, but when im tired and dont want to have to worry about any discomfort during my day, ill reach for my axis lock.
I suppose all this to say that theres more at stake for me with a locking mechanism than its official duty.

Whoa, ancient thread! My bad. *blows dust off op*

Cheddarnut wrote:Great thread.
In my experience (fairly limited) the perception of strength is what sold me on certain knives, as an internet knife purchaser i rely on hype to guide me. I hate that, but save buying every variation of knife/lock to test myself its the economic reality.
I like to think i need 'hard use' knives, which is one of the reasons i was attracted to striders briefly, but soon after realized that i dont use my knives hard at all, it was more of an issue that the PT i had was semi difficult to open and close safely, an my priorities shifted. I too find the axis lock on my BM 525 mini to be comfortable, thats what i need in a knife. It has to feel good. You have to want to use it. Id be more likely to rebuy a knife that feels good when its mechanism wore out, than suffer a longer use period with a knife that was stronger but felt like crap opening/closing. Again i can accept this because i realized i wasnt hard on my blades so the ultimate strength became a moot point.
Forgive me if i missed a reference to this or if it was implied in a different mechanism name, but i find the BBL to be my favorite spyderco lock. Its perception of strength is high, its 'cool' factor is high, the issue i have with it is difficulty closing one handed (those who use a manix likely know the 'last three fingers on the clip' closing grip :) ) compared to the axis lock. Its minor in the greater scheme of things, but when im tired and dont want to have to worry about any discomfort during my day, ill reach for my axis lock.
I suppose all this to say that theres more at stake for me with a locking mechanism than its official duty.

I carry my Manix 2 clipless...so I can't do the 3 finger clip trick. But just butting it up into my palm seems to work very well. After nearly a year of use the CBBL is very very smooth and easy to operate...

DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:I carry my Manix 2 clipless...so I can't do the 3 finger clip trick. But just butting it up into my palm seems to work very well. After nearly a year of use the CBBL is very very smooth and easy to operate...

And the sound of the ball locking is the satisfaction equivalent of the duracell battery closing sound. No, better. Better.

Personally I go for simplicity and reliability. Fortunately for me those two things always seem to go hand in hand. So I can say that I prefer a good strong liner lock. They allow for wear, easy to actuate, not much to go wrong and if done properly can be very strong. Emerson does very well in the liner lock department, nice and heavy. I am not a fan of their fit and finish, especially for how much I pay for them but you can't win all of your fights I suppose. The compression lock is a great design as well. In fact I would like to see it implemented on more knives. Similar to the liner lock it allows for self adjustment and is simple. Really though, I think it is all about execution as far as locks are concerned. Like on the Military, I love the knife and it is tight as a bullfrog's butthole. Yet every time I always think to myself that I would trust it more if it was a couple thousandths thicker... This is all personal opinion but I stand firm, simplicity and reliability.

I think that reliability is the most important factor, followed closely by strength. I want to know that the lock is going to hold the blade open under all foreseen "anticipated use" circumstances. For example, the lock on something like the Police or Military should withstand heavy cutting chores, as well as the forces put on the lock if it is used as a last ditch weapon.

Yes! I often wonder how strong the lock on the police is. I am sure it is good but I do wonder what a police with a compression lock would be like....

1. Lockbacks - Need to unlock and close in two different motions unless you get dangerous.

A. rear (eg: Buck 110) - I think the Buck 110 is the only knife I've ever used with this lock. The lock works, but does not offer good protection against unlocking at all angles of cutting. Can offer low pressure unlocking at the cost of a larger travel.

B. mid (eg: Native) - Works good with a small area for pressure or a boye dent. Somewhat more difficult to release or requires more extreme tolerance on the spring.

C. front (eg: early Al Mars, Spyderco Rescue) - I don't have much experience, eager to try the new Sage.

2. Linerlock - Requires putting fingers in the path of the blade when the blade can swing closed. It seems somewhat dangerous because a slip can put yourself against the edge. Almost too easy to operate.

3. Rolling Lock - No experience.

4. Axis Lock - Seems like a stabilized Ball Bearing Lock. I think there is more than one type of Axis lock. It seems to work well, is rated highly, and tests I've seen have been unable to defeat the lock.

5. Ultra Lock - No experience.

6. Arc Lock - Seems like a weaker Axis lock. Not produced to the tolerance it needs.

7. Frame Lock (Chris Reeve style integral linerlock) - Works okay, the cutout on the lockbar compromises some strength. Additional strength when you are grabbing the knife tight, which is when you need additional strength. There is a VERY wide range of quality on this lock across all manufacturers. This lock is more difficult to operate because it depends on the user to be familiar with the lock.

8. Compression Lock - Seems strong. Varying quality on the lock bar tension and finishes causing the friction to make it release.

9. Balisong Lock - It works as long as you hold it, but there is some wobble.

3. We recently broke some of our competitors knives that are promoted as being "tough", "hard" reliable "do anything" pieces. most tested "medium duty" lock strength by our in-house standards (50 - 99 inch/lbs per inch of blade length).

How much strength do we really need? I'm okay with getting stronger as long as more real estate isn't needed to house it.