Spyderco Forums

But an AR15 pistol with a 10.5 inch barrel in 300BLK
with 100 round drum and night vision does not require a tax stamp.



Oh, wait. Not so fast. It has a deadly stabilizing brace. May become non NFA compliant shortly.

(Full disclosure. The drum is for .223 and is only mocked up for the picture.)

Mad Mac, do you have any thoughts on the 7.62 x 39 (Kalashnikov platform) in that role?

I realize there are pretty much AK guys and AR guys, but it often seems to me that the AK is a better short range pistol platform than the AR.


I just picked up the Tavor TS-12 I've been eyeing since much earlier in this thread. Pictures as soon as I can. :)

You mean something along the lines of this DRACO pistol?



You've done it now. Opinions... vary.

I never fired the DRACO. Bought it for $400, sold it for $800 as administrations ebbed and flowed.
Also once owned a MAK-90. Bought for $200, sold for $400. Same deal. Never shot it either.
But our old SKS truck gun was a great value for $65. It is now relegated to the gun cabinet.

The key word you mentioned was short range.
For a barbecue gun, an affordable blaster, knock yourself out.

And oh, by the way. I have never fired either my 300BLK AR15 pistol or my AR15 rifle in .223.
Bought them for $369 and $399 about six years ago. Can't bring myself to part with them, though.

My only experience shooting an AR15 was when I qualified as a Sharpshooter
with the M16 in 1968 at Fort Sill, Oklahoma.

TomAiello wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:35 am

Mad Mac, do you have any thoughts on the 7.62 x 39 (Kalashnikov platform) in that role?

I realize there are pretty much AK guys and AR guys, but it often seems to me that the AK is a better short range pistol platform than the AR.


I just picked up the Tavor TS-12 I've been eyeing since much earlier in this thread. Pictures as soon as I can. :)

Tom, that's a good pick up.
Also you could consider the CZ Bren if you don't want an AR.

Mad Mac wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:02 am

Also once owned a MAC90. Bought for $200, sold for $400. Same deal. Never shot it either.

I bought an MAK90 just before the (Clinton era) AWB went into effect. $189 at a gun show in California. I put _a lot_ of rounds through that thing over the years. I wouldn't say it's the most accurate, but it was 100% reliable for me.

I was more thinking that if you're looking at 30 caliber-ish options for 'just fun', the x39 has a lot to recommend it. And it would work in the 'truck gun' role fairly well too. I've never owned anything in 300 BLK though. Nothing against it--I just haven't gotten around to it, I guess. And if I'm looking at specialized calibers in an AR style platform, I think I'm a lot more interested in 6mm ARC or 6.5 Grendel

MacLaren wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:27 am

Also you could consider the CZ Bren if you don't want an AR.

Is the Bren available in other (non-5.56) calibers?

TomAiello wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:18 pm

MacLaren wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:27 am

Also you could consider the CZ Bren if you don't want an AR.

Is the Bren available in other (non-5.56) calibers?

Tom, I think, but don't hold me to it, should be available in 7.62x39
We've been waiting forever on the 762x51
I will say up front, that CZ USA has done a dismal job of supporting even the Bren 2 - at least that's what I hear. I have my 2 805 PS1's but, if they ever do release the 308, I'll be getting it too.

H&K P30LS variant3 , love it . Regards MG2

Manixguy@1994 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:47 am

H&K P30LS variant3 , love it . Regards MG2

Pics please, if you want to sir.

I don’t like safeties but the P30L is on my wish list.

I’m not very savvy putting pics up , promise you will see it in the future along with some other toys .

Manixguy@1994 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:08 pm

I’m not very savvy putting pics up , promise you will see it in the future along with some other toys .

Absolutely no worries bro. Take your time

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:29 am

I don’t like safeties but the P30L is on my wish list.

Waited 18 months on mine! V1 Light LEM.

TomAiello wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:35 am

Mad Mac, do you have any thoughts on the 7.62 x 39 (Kalashnikov platform) in that role?

I realize there are pretty much AK guys and AR guys, but it often seems to me that the AK is a better short range pistol platform than the AR.


I just picked up the Tavor TS-12 I've been eyeing since much earlier in this thread. Pictures as soon as I can. :)

I am in a small group of people that love both AR's and AK's just like I love Glock's, 1911's, Sig's, HK's and anything else that is quality, reliable and accurate. The whole AR vs AK battle is pointless and a waste of time. If those people would just go with their firearm of choice and spend the time training on the range they would increase their skill 10 fold instead of trying to justify their choice or tear somebody else down for making a different choice.

I don't generally worry how a rifle will work at close ranges because no matter what it is or barrel length it will be devastating compared to a pistol or pistol caliber. I think more about what my max effective range is. Max range and max effective range are two different things which some people get confused. When I consider a fighting rifle I generally think about 0-400m. AR's and AK's will handle that perfectly and then some. In my experiance pick one because both are reliable and accurate enough for a fighting rifle. Pick the one you can shoot the best or can afford. The best thing you can do for yourself no matter what rifle you choose is train and take training. You will shoot better and be more effective with whatever rifle you choose for yourself. I am not an expert. These are just observations I made during my journey into learning how to protect myself and others with firearms after growing up surrounded by hunters and FUDD's. I am just a typical Citizen I didn't serve in the Military or Law Enforcement. Like everything on the internet take everything I said with a grain of salt and form your opinions and conclusions.

I'm not really an AK or AR guy either. I actually like the 'weird' rifles (like the Bren that was posted earlier, which I haven't tried). I know it's weird, but I like the Tavor, the FS2000, and the Robinson XCR--lots of nonstandard stuff.

TomAiello wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:05 am

I'm not really an AK or AR guy either. I actually like the 'weird' rifles (like the Bren that was posted earlier, which I haven't tried). I know it's weird, but I like the Tavor, the FS2000, and the Robinson XCR--lots of nonstandard stuff.

When my first BCM RECCE 16 was lost in a house fire I replace it with the Tavor. After training and getting use to the original Tavor I loved it. I still like to have a IWI X-95. It was perfect for working out and around vehicles and urban environments. The FS2000 is a rifle I haven't had the chance to try yet. The XCR was an awesome rifle in my opinion and it's a shame it doesn't get more attention than it does.

The XCR has also gotten a lot better in the last decade (or more) since it's release. The trigger is a sore spot, and it would be nice to have a conversion for rock and lock mags, but the current generation is super solid.

TomAiello wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:05 am

I'm not really an AK or AR guy either. I actually like the 'weird' rifles (like the Bren that was posted earlier, which I haven't tried). I know it's weird, but I like the Tavor, the FS2000, and the Robinson XCR--lots of nonstandard stuff.

Tom, I would personally suggest the original Bren 805.
They're softer shooters than the new 2MS.
But, the new 2MS are lighter and don't have the reciprocating charging handle.
I really love my Brens man.
The next thing I'll get as far as a rifle is an AK47
I'll get Mike to build me one.

MacLaren wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:32 am

I'll get Mike to build me one.

What would be even cooler in my opinion is if I helped you build your own or at least get you involved in the process so you can see how it's done and say you either built yourself or at least helped build it.

Mike Slayer wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:22 am

MacLaren wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:32 am

I'll get Mike to build me one.

What would be even cooler in my opinion is if I helped you build your own or at least get you involved in the process so you can see how it's done and say you either built yourself or at least helped build it.

That'll work!!