H1Spyderco Machete?

[JoviAl]

I think an H2 Machete would be too cost prohibitive for the vast majority of Spyderco's market. In my opinion, it would not be worth their time to develop and produce one. I would expect it to be comparable in price to something like the Darn Dao, which sat on shelves for literally years after it was produced. (Might still be available some places)

I have no doubt that a Spyderco machete would have buyers but I also genuinely believe that anything Spyderco produces would have buyers. "Will it have enough buyers?" is the real question though. It's rare to find someone willing to spend $450 on a machete, just so they can use it the same way they use their $10 Tramontina.

I’m not outright disagreeing with you on this one, but I do wonder if comparing this and the Darn Dao is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison - the Darn Dao is a martial arts inspired weapon with very limited use cases and (as indicated by the steady sales) a very small target market, whereas a H1/2 machete taps into a commercial market of tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of potential customers where it is not uncommon to spend $2000+ per unit on a batch of ten chainsaws, well north of $20,000 on a wood chipper, and house mortgage tier money on specialised heavy plant and crane mounted vehicles. I’m only a small fry in that world and I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a $500 machete if it had a measurable impact on my productivity in a real world way like not turning into a blob of rust after a few months. This year alone I’ve had to pay for four replacement Silky Nata blades for my team as they’re the best machete-ish thing I can get locally. That’s ~$400 USD already, and they’re a nightmare to maintain. We waste so much time sharpening them and failing to stop the edge rusting. It is an exercise in frustration management that I’d happily invest to avoid.

*edited for typos

[Jeb]

The Darn Dao, I had to go Google this one and they are still available. They read out better just from the get go, so what's wrong with these other than a little short on the blade length?

Spyderco Lum Darn Dao Flash Batch Fixed Blade Black G-10 (9.8" Satin) FB41GP - Blade HQ https://share.google/A9JFrV98tRkqLEFy5

Heck I may just have to try one of these, they are just a little to short but they are made out of thicker bar stock at .24", that's a big plus for me, so it's heavy to swing. Things in Texas are naturally bigger lol, at least everyone expects it to be lol... Everyone things things are bigger here.

It's just that 10" blade, heck I got other knives that are not a machete of any sort and are close to that size that I have strapped to my belt and carried around lol. I don't make it a habit to wear a machete on my belt. Least not yet anyway lol.

I just got my new Kabar BK 21 machete in and this thing is made from thicker bar stock and the optioned better scales really make it grip and feel better. So next will be a smoke text with this thing.

But not right now, as right now it's GameDay for our Texas Tech Red Raiders. They are out in Utah and are playing on FOX, our local channel. So I am going to be watching this one on the big flat-screen.

I am wearing my last GameDay red and black PM2 I modified for these festivities that I have. Let's see how they do it starts in about 40 minutes from now.



Let's go Red Raiders!

[PM2Josh]

I think an H2 Machete would be too cost prohibitive for the vast majority of Spyderco's market. In my opinion, it would not be worth their time to develop and produce one. I would expect it to be comparable in price to something like the Darn Dao, which sat on shelves for literally years after it was produced. (Might still be available some places)

I have no doubt that a Spyderco machete would have buyers but I also genuinely believe that anything Spyderco produces would have buyers. "Will it have enough buyers?" is the real question though. It's rare to find someone willing to spend $450 on a machete, just so they can use it the same way they use their $10 Tramontina.

I’m not outright disagreeing with you on this one, but I do wonder if comparing this and the Darn Dao is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison - the Darn Dao is a martial arts inspired weapon with very limited use cases and (as indicated by the steady sales) a very small target market, whereas a H1/2 machete taps into a commercial market of tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of potential customers where it is not uncommon to spend $2000+ per unit on a batch of ten chainsaws, well north of $20,000 on a wood chipper, and house mortgage tier money on specialised heavy plant and crane mounted vehicles. I’m only a small fry in that world and I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a $500 machete if it had a measurable impact on my productivity in a real world way like not turning into a blob of rust after a few months. This year alone I’ve had to pay for four replacement Silky Nata blades for my team as they’re the best machete-ish thing I can get locally. That’s ~$400 USD already, and they’re a nightmare to maintain. We waste so much time sharpening them and failing to stop the edge rusting. It is an exercise in frustration management that I’d happily invest to avoid.

*edited for typos

I had a chance to get a Darn Dao for $137 twoyears ago in a pawn shop in Charlottesville. Box included. Man I should have bought it.
well look at the Respect Bowie. I mean it sold so quick I could not find one outside the Spydefco store. Or marked up 3x price on Ebay.
Yes I do agree that this would nkt fly off the shelves. Like anything made in Magnacut. But I do think this could sell in time. I mean a standard Endura in VG10 does not exactly sell out in minutes.
But it is still made and in time does sell. With that said. Yes H2 may be too cost prohibitive. Perhaps I did not think of that. Maybe an AEB-L version would suffice in offsetting the cost prohibitive price.

[Mushroom]

I think an H2 Machete would be too cost prohibitive for the vast majority of Spyderco's market. In my opinion, it would not be worth their time to develop and produce one. I would expect it to be comparable in price to something like the Darn Dao, which sat on shelves for literally years after it was produced. (Might still be available some places)

I have no doubt that a Spyderco machete would have buyers but I also genuinely believe that anything Spyderco produces would have buyers. "Will it have enough buyers?" is the real question though. It's rare to find someone willing to spend $450 on a machete, just so they can use it the same way they use their $10 Tramontina.

I’m not outright disagreeing with you on this one, but I do wonder if comparing this and the Darn Dao is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison - the Darn Dao is a martial arts inspired weapon with very limited use cases and (as indicated by the steady sales) a very small target market, whereas a H1/2 machete taps into a commercial market of tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of potential customers where it is not uncommon to spend $2000+ per unit on a batch of ten chainsaws, well north of $20,000 on a wood chipper, and house mortgage tier money on specialised heavy plant and crane mounted vehicles. I’m only a small fry in that world and I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a $500 machete if it had a measurable impact on my productivity in a real world way like not turning into a blob of rust after a few months. This year alone I’ve had to pay for four replacement Silky Nata blades for my team as they’re the best machete-ish thing I can get locally. That’s ~$400 USD already, and they’re a nightmare to maintain. We waste so much time sharpening them and failing to stop the edge rusting. It is an exercise in frustration management that I’d happily invest to avoid.

*edited for typos

If comparing a Darn Dao to an H2 machete is comparing apples to oranges, then what is comparing an H2 machete to chainsaws and wood chippers?

Sure, you would be willing pay $500 for an H2 Machete but much like the Darn Dao, I would suggest that you are in a similar type of niche target market. Is the market that is willing to purchase a $500 H2 machete really large enough for Spyderco to justify its production? I wouldn’t have thought so but if you’re saying it might be, then maybe they’ll consider it.

Would you be able to get a Spyderco machete locally? Or would that require ordering internationally? What’s stopping you from ordering some $12 Tramontinas instead of locally sourcing the $100 Silky’s?

If your team is already using ~$100 machetes like they’re disposable, that won’t change with a more expensive version. It’s just going to be more expensive when they need to be replaced.

I don’t know, I guess I just think their resources should be focused more on what they’re currently doing opposed to diving headfirst into the machete market with a high end H2 version.

[sal]

Interesting thread. I think Nick's concept is valid There is always the question of, "Is the market large enough to support the inventory"?

For the sake of conversation;

How long?
How thick?
Steel options / suggestions?
Handle material and design?
Overall design?
Optimal cost?
Sheath or carry method?

The Darn Dao is not a good comparison. It was a special build to recognize Bob's eye for beauty. We built it very right and it is a worthy piece to own. I bought one of his original pieces when he first made them and sat on it for years planning to build a run.

sal

[PM2Josh]

For the sake of conversation;

How long?
How thick?
Steel options / suggestions?
Handle material and design?
Overall design?
Optimal cost?
Sheath or carry method?

sal

I will take a crack at it. But I am no manufacturer. Just a humble blade enthusiast. Feel free to modify or ignore my ideas.

How long?
I would say 16 to 18 inches blade length much like a standard machete. As opposed to a hybrid or chopper.

How thick?
3.0 to 3.5mm thick. For increased toughness and edge stability. Without being too heavy. Perhaps a convex of full flat grind for even more edge stability.

Steel options / suggestions?
H2. If that is not cost effective. Why not AEB-L? Since AEB-L is easy to sharpen in field and pretty tough. If you know any better steels. By all means go with that instead.

Handle material and design?
Honestly. I love the G-10 handle on my Jumpmaster H2. I think something in that style with an extra 1 to 2 inches would be exceptional for grip.

Overall design?
Some style with a decent tip such as in the Blackie Collins style machetes released for Ontario in the 1990's

Optimal cost?
I have no idea to be honest.

Sheath or carry method?
I would suggest leather or a hard plastic sheath over boltaron for helping keep cost down. But I am open to ideas.

It's your call Sal. But I really think if Spyderco attempts this. To at least consider a bit longer of a handle in the style of a Jumpmaster 2

[Scandi Grind]

Please don't make it too thin/whippy.

I cannot tell if I will buy it sight unseen, but I probably would buy one maybe two if it can double as a self defense tool. Spyderco usually hits it out of the park.

I get not wanting a machete to be thin and whippy for a self defense tool, but I don't think that that is what a machete is ideal for anyway. I am sure there are more experienced machete users here than me, but a have a huge yard that grows thorns, vines, and thick shrubbery anywhere that you don't cut it back. The most important things I have found is that a machete be as effortless as possible to swing through non-woody (or thin wood) targets for hours on end. That means comfortable handle, light weight (thin), good length (18 in. is pretty good for me), and as slicy as possible while being able to stand up to the materials it has to cut (thin again).

I think if the goal is self defense, then a sword is what you want, which will have a different focus than a machete. I think if the goal is to chop wood, then what you want is a chopper, not really something that qualifies as a proper machete in my opinion. But if the goal is to cut vegetation, even if it can suffer a little chopping on the side, then you want an machete, and it will probably do it's job most efficiently if it is thin. Obviously there are hybrid tools, like ".25 thicker chopper machetes, and while they can make fair multi taskers sometimes, I just don't think they serve the role well when your job is specifically to cut through tons of vegetation.

Anyway, that is just my personal take on machete design based on personal experience. I should post a picture of my yard to show what it is I am usually maintaining.

[Mushroom]

I really only mentioned the Darn Dao because of the overall size, build, and cost. I assumed a machete would be even bigger but with a similar build and maybe cost. (I’m proud to own two Darn Dao’s, by the way )

If it were H2, as I understood, that can only used in Japanese produced knives. Which, from a buyers perspective, have trended towards the higher side from Spyderco. So I was just guessing what the prospective cost might be. I don’t actually know.

As for myself, when I think of a machete my first thought is a Latin style machete. (Bush style?)

[vivi]

I'd like to see something along the lines of the condor terrachete with a thinner blade (2mm instead of 3mm) and Sal style ergonomics.

thin and whippy is what you want if you're using a machete as a machete. 3mm is the max I'd consider, and even then they start to feel a little heavy for foliage. 3mm is more of a hybrid machete / chopper - better for woods, worse for undergrowth.

It's about 16" which makes it comfortable to belt carry or pack carry vs 18-24" machetes that spend more time in the garage / trunk.

injection molded handle like aqua salts to keep costs down.

the sheath can be used one handed. it's plastic instead of fabric so more durable. I have pictures someshere.

blade isn't as upswept as latin style which works better for me



video on reprofiling mine. skip to last minute to see how it chops (16" blade 3mm thick)



bottom machete



far left

now condor does a dual grind on theirs. it might be neat to do the same to a spyderco one, except make the area close to the handle serrated for easily cutting rope etc. the thinner grind there would let it carve wood quite easily too.

[Fireman]

Interesting thread. I think Nick's concept is valid There is always the question of, "Is the market large enough to support the inventory"?

For the sake of conversation;

How long?
How thick?
Steel options / suggestions?
Handle material and design?
Overall design?
Optimal cost?
Sheath or carry method?

The Darn Dao is not a good comparison. It was a special build to recognize Bob's eye for beauty. We built it very right and it is a worthy piece to own. I bought one of his original pieces when he first made them and sat on it for years planning to build a run.

sal

Perhaps sold as a kit or just the blade and people can make it their own to save cost?

[Fireman]

Would a differential heat treat take out some of the “Whippiness”?

[vivi]

people wanting something thick and not whippy should ask for a chopper IMO. Those and machetes have a similar profile but work differently. machetes that can be flexed side to side by hand are the best machetes in my experience.

scandi grind put it very well a few posts up.

[vivi]

here are those terrachete sheath pictures.

I like the micarta handle on my ontario bushcraft machete a little better, but being able to draw and re-sheath this one handed is awesome. Gonna be hard going back to a machete with a nylon sheath with snaps after using this

something like that is a lot more convenient than the typical nylon sheath with snaps that requires two hands.

maybe an injection molded sheath with a g clip attach to a dangler of some sort?

[Jimandchris2]

I think an H2 Machete would be too cost prohibitive for the vast majority of Spyderco's market. In my opinion, it would not be worth their time to develop and produce one. I would expect it to be comparable in price to something like the Darn Dao, which sat on shelves for literally years after it was produced. (Might still be available some places)

I have no doubt that a Spyderco machete would have buyers but I also genuinely believe that anything Spyderco produces would have buyers. "Will it have enough buyers?" is the real question though. It's rare to find someone willing to spend $450 on a machete, just so they can use it the same way they use their $10 Tramontina.

....this dude gets it. Well said.

[Fireman]

Well, I’m working on some swappable scales for the mule right now using magnets and that could be one way with having multiple positions to move the handle. I don’t mind if the butt sticks out 1/2” and machetes don’t have to be full tang.

Fireman,

This sliding handle, how are you going to avoid the part of the machete that sticks out the tail of the handle as you slide it forward?

I know that would get me right in the gut as a gut check lol. I get, the single cut bevel, as I re-sharpen my cheap cruddy ones they get a single side bevel lol. These things I got here are pure junk though jimo...

They have cheap plastic scales you can't keep snagged up on the shank, but that's just the beginning of the problems these have.

I have no idea how many times I have bent these Dawgs and had to take them to my anvil and hammer them back out the best you can and then start over lol.

[Fireman]

I would like the spydie hole match up with holes in the sheath to add security while hiking. I think a sling system would be good that can also be attached to a belt with a drop loop.

[zhyla]

You are correct. It’s what I call a Kitchete.

It reminds me of some big knives I’ve seen taco shops use for chopping up meat when it’s done cooking. I’m sure it’s handy. My heat treat oven won’t fit such a blade but I may cut one down from a machete one of these days.

[zhyla]

To borrow a phrase from @zhyla that I’d never previously come across - most of them seem to aesthetic designs aimed at mall ninjas (please correct me if I’ve misused that)

You’ve never heard the mall ninja term? I guess it’s more widely used in firearm circles but I thought it was commonly known.

I should point out that there are a lot of useful knives that are marketed with the machete term but which are not machetes — yet that does not mean they are not useful.

[Naperville]

Please don't make it too thin/whippy.

I cannot tell if I will buy it sight unseen, but I probably would buy one maybe two if it can double as a self defense tool. Spyderco usually hits it out of the park.

I get not wanting a machete to be thin and whippy for a self defense tool, but I don't think that that is what a machete is ideal for anyway. I am sure there are more experienced machete users here than me, but a have a huge yard that grows thorns, vines, and thick shrubbery anywhere that you don't cut it back. The most important things I have found is that a machete be as effortless as possible to swing through non-woody (or thin wood) targets for hours on end. That means comfortable handle, light weight (thin), good length (18 in. is pretty good for me), and as slicy as possible while being able to stand up to the materials it has to cut (thin again).

I think if the goal is self defense, then a sword is what you want, which will have a different focus than a machete. I think if the goal is to chop wood, then what you want is a chopper, not really something that qualifies as a proper machete in my opinion. But if the goal is to cut vegetation, even if it can suffer a little chopping on the side, then you want an machete, and it will probably do it's job most efficiently if it is thin. Obviously there are hybrid tools, like ".25 thicker chopper machetes, and while they can make fair multi taskers sometimes, I just don't think they serve the role well when your job is specifically to cut through tons of vegetation.

Anyway, that is just my personal take on machete design based on personal experience. I should post a picture of my yard to show what it is I am usually maintaining.

Yea the more that I think about my statement. I am not looking for a chopper, I have a few of those. Just not too bendy, just right.

Make a decent run that can be repeated if it sells out immediately.

I have a few machetes, mostly Cold Steel. Whatever Spyderco decides, I'm in. I am sure that it will be fine. They will choose a good steel, and if it is 1V, H1/H2, LC200N, AEB-L (whatever) I'll be happy. They know that we are looking for something that holds a bit of an edge and does not rust, 15 to 16 inch long blade. A grip with a hook at the end and a lanyard will work. Dangler sounds good.

The terrachete looks like a good size, decent profile.

I like the idea of something that will not rust. If the blade has a flat top serrated edge I hope that the serrations cut on the draw stroke not the push stroke. Landscapers and arborists are likely to cut on the draw stroke.

I chat with Tom Veff years ago and tried to get him to put his serrations on a large Bark River Knives Bravo knife. This Spyderco knife may be the tool I have been waiting for all of these years.

[PM2Josh]

I think an H2 Machete would be too cost prohibitive for the vast majority of Spyderco's market. In my opinion, it would not be worth their time to develop and produce one. I would expect it to be comparable in price to something like the Darn Dao, which sat on shelves for literally years after it was produced. (Might still be available some places)

I have no doubt that a Spyderco machete would have buyers but I also genuinely believe that anything Spyderco produces would have buyers. "Will it have enough buyers?" is the real question though. It's rare to find someone willing to spend $450 on a machete, just so they can use it the same way they use their $10 Tramontina.

I’m not outright disagreeing with you on this one, but I do wonder if comparing this and the Darn Dao is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison - the Darn Dao is a martial arts inspired weapon with very limited use cases and (as indicated by the steady sales) a very small target market, whereas a H1/2 machete taps into a commercial market of tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of potential customers where it is not uncommon to spend $2000+ per unit on a batch of ten chainsaws, well north of $20,000 on a wood chipper, and house mortgage tier money on specialised heavy plant and crane mounted vehicles. I’m only a small fry in that world and I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a $500 machete if it had a measurable impact on my productivity in a real world way like not turning into a blob of rust after a few months. This year alone I’ve had to pay for four replacement Silky Nata blades for my team as they’re the best machete-ish thing I can get locally. That’s ~$400 USD already, and they’re a nightmare to maintain. We waste so much time sharpening them and failing to stop the edge rusting. It is an exercise in frustration management that I’d happily invest to avoid.

*edited for typos

If comparing a Darn Dao to an H2 machete is comparing apples to oranges, then what is comparing an H2 machete to chainsaws and wood chippers?

Sure, you would be willing pay $500 for an H2 Machete but much like the Darn Dao, I would suggest that you are in a similar type of niche target market. Is the market that is willing to purchase a $500 H2 machete really large enough for Spyderco to justify its production? I wouldn’t have thought so but if you’re saying it might be, then maybe they’ll consider it.

Would you be able to get a Spyderco machete locally? Or would that require ordering internationally? What’s stopping you from ordering some $12 Tramontinas instead of locally sourcing the $100 Silky’s?

If your team is already using ~$100 machetes like they’re disposable, that won’t change with a more expensive version. It’s just going to be more expensive when they need to be replaced.

I don’t know, I guess I just think their resources should be focused more on what they’re currently doing opposed to diving headfirst into the machete market with a high end H2 version.

I don't look at this as jumping head first into the machete market. As much as dipping your toes in it. To see how it plays out. Nor am I going to throw away my Tramontinas or Imacasa machetes.

If you want me to be honest. I feel like Spyderco already has a good selection of pocket knives in many different steels. But their fixed blade market and niche items is a bit lacking.

And it would be nice to see Spyderco's rendition of a machete. With their design chops. There are other more cost effective steels that could be incorporated such as AEB-L or 14C28. Upon others. If H2 is impractical.

Which could help reduce costs. I realize that I may be wrong on this topic. But I am not afraid to look outside the box as opposed to not having any ideas to share.

I see this as an opportunity to capitalize on another aspect of the market and I may be wrong.