A peak behind the curtain at the Bodacious

[Evil D]

Right up there with whining about price—especially in significant threads like this—is second-guessing Spydie designs so new that few of us have even had a chance to experience what Sal or Eric intended.

I wouldn't call it second guessing? We're definitely a group that'd guilty of being demanding with our wishes but I think most of the time that's done in a respectful manner. We probably do trivialize how easy it is to just change from one lock to another.

We do all need a reminder sometimes that we forumites make up a small percentage of their customer base, and we really don't know the real numbers behind sales. Just because we think something is a good idea, doesn't mean it'll sell.

[nerdlock]

In my mind, I really wanted this to have contured handles. They didn't have to be as contoured as the Shaman, but the flat scales were a minus for me. Smooth is a plus. Stonewash blade and clip would have also been a plus.

I'll own one eventually when funds permit and see if it's just a mental hang up on my part.

I'm glad I'm also not alone (a reference to Evil D's post earlier in this thread) in this desire for the Bodacious to have at least a larger chamfered scale, like the G-10s from Seki Japan (think Police 4 G10 or Lil Temperance 3 G10). I feel that a larger chamfering would serve as the best compromise between a flat scale like this and the overly contoured scale of the Shaman that polarizes many in this hobby.

I understand that price complaints get really old, really fast. If only MAP holidays came around more than once per year consistently, I bet we'd have less and less complaints about the pricing. I'm just grateful that the mods allow these discussions (or whining, depending on your point of view) and I think it also serves as a therapeutic outlet for all the runaway price increases we all experience every day on basic goods and services.

With that aside, great post, D.

[Evil D]

I understand that price complaints get really old, really fast.

I really want to emphasize that I get it, I'm not made of money either and I'm not happy prices keep increasing and I absolutely am not saying people shouldn't voice their frustration, I'm just saying there's no chance that Spyderco aren't aware that people are unhappy about prices, and I just wish every discussion didn't have to involve it.

[Evil D]

Back on topic, I've got some days off for the holiday so I'm going to make some time to abuse the crap out of this knife. I'll report back on how the handle shape effects hard use, if the blockiness is an issue.

I'm also working on a convex edge and some other minor mods (or apparently I've destroyed this knife I dunno) but that discussion got a little out of hand on Facebook today and I said a little too much and apparently I'm a Karen somehow. That whole ordeal is kinda like accidentally stepping in dog crap, it stinks and it's annoying but it's easy enough to scrape it off in the grass and keep walking

[Wartstein]

..

Yeah probably not because you'd need a big cutout on the blade to clear around the button. Bummer.


I do think the wizards at Spyderco could make this knife as a handle-forward back lock. I'm sure they could also make it as a liner lock but you'd really need to be careful when closing it because there's nothing to stop the edge from dropping into your thumb , unlike a Military that has a finger choil that hits your thumb.

Speaking of back lock I've been meaning to get some pictures comparing this to the Native 5, because we had a thread going about a choil-less Native 5 and this is pretty much what you'd get, aside from the lock difference or course. It would take some clever engineering to make a handle-forward version but I really think it's doable. I think they need to rethink the ricasso/kick shape, it could be much shorter in length so the pivot doesn't have to be so far back from the front edge of the handle, and that would allow them to have as much edge as possible and a shorter kick would be easier to hide inside the handle. I think they could also achieve the same end result with an internal stop pin and then they could do away with the kick altogether.

I'm sure I'm oversimplifying all this, but it's more because I believe they're capable of figuring it out, and less that I just think it's easy to do.

Yes, for me the Bodacious with a (handle forward) backlock instead of a comp.lock would even be more of an improvement than with a linerlock or button comp.lock (which both would improve it already imo, though, as we both figure, a button comp.lock would be hard or even impossible to implement on this exact knife anyway).
First and foremost concerning handle ergos, but also safety in pocket (closing bias), usability with gloves, being totally ambidextrous and the fingers can be kept out of the blade path all the time with a backlock just like with a comp.lock (for those who care for that).

But I think again that with the exact same handle and blade shape and height a backlock would probably not work - just cause the tall blade and the backlock would not fit into the current handle? Here comp.lock and linerlock do have an advantage, cause the lock bar moves out of the way when the blade folds into the handle.

I hope the LeafJumper XL / Sequoia will offer something like that, but it will definitely not offer "no thumb ramp", but rather a substantial one.

[Wartstein]

I understand that price complaints get really old, really fast.

I really want to emphasize that I get it, I'm not made of money either and I'm not happy prices keep increasing and I absolutely am not saying people shouldn't voice their frustration, I'm just saying there's no chance that Spyderco aren't aware that people are unhappy about prices, and I just wish every discussion didn't have to involve it.

Folks, in defense of my fellow forumites I want to say again:
It is totally on me that this "price complaining" started here
Would not have happened if I had not shared that vid and my puzzlement about how many in the comments did complain about the price and my worries what this could mean for the future of that great design (to be clear once more though:
I myself do not feel like complaining about the price at all, rather the opposite, as I said already: I am 100% convinced that Spyderco calculates their prices thoroughly and fairly, and on top of that I'd happily pay a bit more for supporting the integrity, the loyalty, the way they do business and treat their employees, the effort put into doing models and treating steels "right" before brought on the market and so on)

Since I do think there should be a place where "prices" can be discussed, but not here (and also not in every other thread... ):
I think THIS viewtopic.php?p=1771164#p1771164 is one of the threads people could go to if they feel like talking about pricing. Though more focussed on Chinese made Spydies, it is genuinly about "pricing" and there are (starting at page 5) some interesting inputs by Sal himself.

Hope this helps to keep "pricing" out of the discussion here .

[benben]

I understand that price complaints get really old, really fast.

I really want to emphasize that I get it, I'm not made of money either and I'm not happy prices keep increasing and I absolutely am not saying people shouldn't voice their frustration, I'm just saying there's no chance that Spyderco aren't aware that people are unhappy about prices, and I just wish every discussion didn't have to involve it.

Folks, in defense of my fellow forumites I want to say again:
It is totally on me that this "price complaining" started here
Would not have happened if I had not shared that vid and my puzzlement about how many in the comments did complain about the price and my worries what this could mean for the future of that great design (to be clear once more though:
I myself do not feel like complaining about the price at all, rather the opposite, as I said already: I am 100% convinced that Spyderco calculates their prices thoroughly and fairly, and on top of that I'd happily pay a bit more for supporting the integrity, the loyalty, the way they do business and treat their employees, the effort put into doing models and treating steels "right" before brought on the market and so on)

Since I do think there should be a place where "prices" can be discussed, but not here (and also not in every other thread... ):
I think THIS viewtopic.php?p=1771164#p1771164 is one of the threads people could go to if they feel like talking about pricing. Though more focussed on Chinese made Spydies, it is genuinly about "pricing" and there are (starting at page 5) some interesting inputs by Sal himself.

Hope this helps to keep "pricing" out of the discussion here .

Don’t sweat it! It’s been a great thread that I’ve enjoyed reading! Great review, great pics, great discussions, and really great having David back!

Price is subjective, a $200+ purchase for one guy is completely different for the guy standing behind him, even with both guys having plenty of money in their account….or maybe not? To me it’s more about the value of something over the cost, what am I going to get out of this product compared to what I just paid for it?

Prices are ridiculous on everything now, regardless of the commodity, it’s the world we live in today!

With the new Bodacious, there’s R&D, new tooling, and a host of other things I’m sure I know nothing about, Spyderco knows where to set the price to be profitable, and still offer a great product.

I love a deal, and I must admit, I’m pretty good at finding them whether it’s knives, guns, automobiles, or houses, I’m patient and persistent.

I mentioned value, the most I’ve ever paid for a new Spyderco is $210.00, for the Ayoob sprint, but with all the hype, the endless pages of that thread, and having Mr. Ayoob himself chime in there was no way I was not going to buy one!

Value….I bought a Crucarta Manix 2 a couple weeks back for $140.00, on a knife model I absolutely love, that is a value! Is the Bodacious worth $122.00 more than that Manix, or is the Ayoob worth $70.00 more? Heck no, not to me! Yep, it’s all subjective and personal, right now I don’t plan on buying a Bodacious but I hope Spyderco sells a ton of them, and that everyone that buys one loves it, hope it’s a huge success!

Again, thanks for the post David!

[kennethsime]

I just hope we get a Crucarta version soon.

[chronovore]

Sick of hearing it but we hear it for good reasons.

I just wish we could keep it contained in one of the MANY threads we have about complaining about price so that every thread doesn't have to devolve into a ***** fest about prices. I just miss the days when we talked about knives and steels and interesting things and not economics.

That'd be great but such topics don't exist in a vacuum. Without delving into the politics behind it, a lot of our belts are tighter now. Prices are up in dynamic ways across the board, from groceries to building materials. This is a serious general issue and it dovetails with the more specific issue of choices in the knife market. Justifying or even considering a purchase involves relativity on both of those metrics for a lot of us.

On the second metric, the bevy of competitive or more affordable choices from China is impossible to ignore but some people set those choices aside for various reasons. A big problem at the price levels we are talking about here though is that it isn't just China. There are high-quality productions knives from the US, Canada, or Europe in better or at least more novel materials on the table at these prices. However hard a sell that makes the Bodacious, the Enuff 2 is a far harder sell in the current fixed blade market. It's a foreign-made production fixed blade in VG-10 and FRN at prices where both super steels and decent custom knives are available.

BTW, I'm not complaining to dump on Spyderco. I love Spyderco! I don't know all of the reasons why Spyderco, TRM, Tactile, North Arm, etc. offer their products for the prices they do; but it makes me sad to see Spyderco lag or to have so much trouble justifying one of their products as a result. In that department, some of the complaining is really "wishing" and some might just be consumer therapy.

[Mrj]

This was excellent @Evil D thanks for all the work you put into this. You did everything I was thinking about. Now I can just enjoy it for what it is. Appreciate the effort.

[CDEP]

I'm on day 2 with the Bodacious. Was gonna pass because I prefer choils and think the Shaman is perfect, but I'm really glad I didn't.

In hand it feels more like a big Native 5 than the Shaman does (even without the choil) and the thin blocky profile and slimmer blade stock really drive that home. It is also built like a tank, but noticibly lighter than the Shaman

I'm gonna carry it with a Shaman and a Native 5 for more comparison, but I love it already.

[Evil D]

A few edge length comparison pics. Mine gained about 3/16 or so edge at the heel but should still give an idea. It is very close in length to a Military (less than 1/16) and pretty much dead on with a Native Chief. I didn't grind back the plunge line as much for that small amount of edge as I did to eliminate any snagging at the heel of the blade. It's not the prettiest regrind but it slices like a beast (at least for this blade grind thickness).



















Overall I am thoroughly impressed with how much edge length is packed into such a compact handle. I could definitely see a Bodacious XL around the size of a Resilience with ~4.25-4.5 inch edge length.

[abbazaba]

What a seriously great thread. Thank you David!

Bodacious should be here tomorrow :)

[Brock O Lee]

A few edge length comparison pics.

Those are helpful comparison shots...

Loving the convex! Knocking the shoulders off the bevel makes it glide effortlessly through stuff. I've done quite a few.

[Igi964]

Thats what I was thinking about the other day. How much edge You get with the Bodacious Closed size a bit shorter then PM2 and edge almost of a Military Very rare lesson of efficiency. Great job, Sal. After all the years, finaly. Mine should come today. Cant wait to flick it and admire this awsome design

[cabfrank]

Absolutely a high blade to handle ratio, but remember, Sal has said he is not in that camp. There are variations in design, but the man has said handles are for holding, blades are for cutting, and a scalpel wouldn't be a better design with a longer blade or shorter handle. It's hard to argue with that.

[horzuff]

Does anyone know how thick BTE a factory fresh bodacious is?

[Evil D]

Absolutely a high blade to handle ratio, but remember, Sal has said he is not in that camp. There are variations in design, but the man has said handles are for holding, blades are for cutting, and a scalpel wouldn't be a better design with a longer blade or shorter handle. It's hard to argue with that.

I respect his viewpoint but it's a very subjective one. I don't want choils on all my knives but clearly they're very popular. And a scalpel is a very different tool than a pocket knife with a very specific cutting task. For an EDC pocket knife this is what I like, and as much edge as possible in whatever handle size is what I prefer. Sal may not have tried to hit a good ratio but he did a great job all the same.

[Evil D]

Does anyone know how thick BTE a factory fresh bodacious is?

It's thinner blade stock than a Shaman but still a beefy blade. Also Eric mentioned that it's thicker ground at the tip, and if you run your fingers down the length of the blade grind you can feel the transition where it gets thicker. It's a stout knife for sure.

Tell us more about the blade… thickness bte ?

I'm seeing around 0.024 all along the edge, a couple spots at 0.025 but that's such a small different it may just be where I'm holding.

Also I have to say this is one of the most even and consistent edge bevels I've seen in quite a while.

[cabfrank]

Sal may not have tried to hit a good ratio but he did a great job all the same.

Yep, exactly what I meant, just that it isn't normally his goal post. I completely agree that it is subjective, and something many people value, often myself as well. I always thought the Caly 3.5 was amazing that way, and there are other examples.