Mini Yojimbo Prototype ?

[ladybug93]

another factor in the "i don't want s30v" camp is the desire to try something different. spyderco have spoiled us for variety of steels. i think that kind of thinking is not the general knife user though and more a product of forums and social media, to include the "need" to have something special and different. none of us is immune to that, and i think it's the only real thing s30v suffers. it's plenty good for just about everything and is a great all-around performer. i've even cleaned up an s30v knife that was taken for a swim in the pacific on accident and left to rust for over a week. i was surprised by the amount of rust that built up in that time, but was even more shocked by how easily and well it cleaned up. it's a really great steel.

thanks for the run-down on the design choices. i always love to hear the reasoning behind designs. i know better than to think these things are done with little thought or care, but it's still eye-opening to get the perspective of the designer.

any chance we'll see a microjimbo slipit like the lil native? that would be amazing for those locations you specified as well. thanks again!

[Mushroom]

I would suspect that a slipjoint may not be sufficient enough for a self defense knife. Also, I don’t believe those locations have a lock restriction but only a blade length restriction. (I know at least Boston is only a blade length restriction.)

[ladybug93]

I would suspect that a slipjoint may not be sufficient enough for a self defense knife. Also, I don’t believe those locations have a lock restriction but only a blade length restriction. (I know at least Boston is only a blade length restriction.)

oh man... you're right. i wasn't thinking about that at all. i was just thinking the knife would be a good utility tool and a slipjoint would be nice. i recently traveled to germany and their law is that you can't have a knife that can lock AND be one hand opening. it can have either of those two features, but not both.

as far as the cities mentioned, i'm not sure i'd want to be caught carrying anything there. i read that in nyc, if you have a knife clipped to your pocket (regardless of size or lock), you are indicating that you are going to use it, which makes you a violent criminal and can get you arrested. i made sure not to carry anything but my little sak rambler in my pocket and a small utility knife with a serrated blade in my backpack when i was there recently. i don't understand why these places have lost their minds over blades. you almost never hear about knife-related crimes.

[JSumm]

I believe those cities lost their minds when knife fights were randomly popping up in the streets. Below is an example that lead to further legislation. These laws need to beat it.

[hereiamu1]

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike

Thanks for the info Mike, can't wait for it to come out. Now we can start thinking about a SuperYoJumbo or SuperDuperYoJumbo. lol

[ladybug93]

I believe those cities lost their minds when knife fights were randomly popping up in the streets. Below is an example that lead to further legislation. These laws need to beat it.

dude. you need to beat it with those jokes.

[JSumm]

I believe those cities lost their minds when knife fights were randomly popping up in the streets. Below is an example that lead to further legislation. These laws need to beat it.

dude. you need to beat it with those jokes.

That scene was the first thing that popped in my mind thinking of these ridiculous laws saving us from knife fights.

[bmstrong]

Hey, All:

Thank you very much for your interest in the MicroJimbo.

The prototypes shown at Blade are about 95% final form. When the final version is available and Eric gives me his blessing, I'll gladly do a video on my design process and logic. In the meantime, here's a summary of my approach.

The project began with a request from Spyderco Forumites for a smaller Yo 2-style knife. Sal noticed their interest and asked me to work on a design. My first thought was to design something with a similar spirit, but in a significantly smaller package. My mind immediately went to the Kiwi, which I believe is one of the most potent combinations of style, size, and cutting performance Spyderco ever created. For my needs, however, quick deployment is a priority. The Kiwi design does not lend itself to that.

That approach also reminded me of a story Bob Taylor told me and Sal when we interviewed him for the Spyderco Warrior book. When he was developing the Hobbit Warrior, he initially took a machinist's drawing of the Warrior, put it on a photocopier, and scaled the entire thing down. He then used that drawing to commission a prototype. When he received the prototype, he hated it. In Bob's words, "I designed the perfect fighting knife... for an 11-year-old." He realized you can't scale down everything. Key dimensional relationships must be maintained to make the knife ergonomically sound for normal hand sizes.

Changing gears, I decided to follow the Glock principle. When you look at families of Glock pistols, like the 17/19/26, the key dimensional relationships of the trigger reach, location of the slide stop, etc. are all consistent. Everything around that core is shortened, but the important stuff remains unchanged. My goal was to achieve a 2.5-inch blade--the MBC "worst-case scenario" because it is all you can legally carry in highly restrictive jurisdictions like Chicago, Boston, and US Federal buildings. With that goal in mind, I took one of my personal Yo 2s, fired up the belt grinder, opened a beer, and started grinding. Grind, dip in water to cool, take a sip of beer, repeat. A couple of beers later, I had shortened and narrowed the knife and smoothed out the flow of the handle. Following the lead of the gun industry, I also embraced the naming convention of full-sized models, minis, and micros. This, the name of the design became "MicroJimbo."

With regard to the blade grind, to be very honest, it's frustrating when people who have never handled or carried a Yojimbo 2 get up on the forum and pontificate about its fragile point. As I've explained in other posts and videos about the Yojimbo 2, I chose a hollow grind for the Yo 2 because, at the time I designed it, Spyderco had the machinery to do hollow grinds in-house. Flat grinds, way back then, were done by an outside vendor (that changed soon after the Yo 2 was released). I also like the edge geometry of a hollow grind and the fact that it leaves lots of weight in the spine to facilitate my favorite opening method. Most importantly, I'm smart enough to know the difference between a knife and a screwdriver.

Nevertheless, for all the folks who falsely claim that hollow-ground Wharncliffe blades suffer from weak tips, I changed the grind to a full-flat. I also wanted to challenge myself to free-hand regrind my prototype from a hollow to a flat--and I did.

Similarly, a lot of people insist on deep-pocket carry clips without understanding the synergy involved in hand size, knife size, and clip carry height. For the size of the MicroJimbo, the deep-pocket wire clip creates an in-pocket carry height that allows the knife to be drawn and fluidly opened without repositioning it in the hand. As such, it was the best solution. My dream knife (and my personal Yo 2) has always had a clip with a pants-matching color. That was a desired design specification for the original Yojimbo 20 years ago, but it was not feasible at the time. The wire clip, while not color matching, is much more subtle, doesn't look like a knife clip, and allows the pants material to show through. Again, the best available option.

So there you have it. In simple terms, the MicroJimbo is a Glock 26-ish Yojimbo 2 with a full-flat grind and a deep-pocket carry clip specifically scaled to carry legally in anal-retentive jurisdictions.

As far as the steel choice goes, I have been carrying knives with CPM S30V blades for 20 years. I am also privy to the in-house testing that Spyderco does on cutting performance and corrosion resistance and have discussed steel performance with metallurgists from Crucible and Carpenter, so I know how good S30V is. Truth be told, most knife enthusiasts never use their knives regularly or intensely enough to quantify the performance difference between steels. Often, comments that a knife is "only" S30V are an excuse not to buy something that they weren't planning on buying in the first place. From a functional standpoint, CPM S30V has always performed well for my needs. Spyderco uses it a lot, so it's in ready supply and our heat treating of it is both dialed in and receives the benefit of manufacturing economy of scale. When my S30V blades stop performing at peak sharpness, I sharpen them. Ultimately, that's the process for all knife steels and a big part of the charm of being a knife person...

I hope this helps.

Stay safe,

Mike

Always helps! I appreciate the reply and the time composing the long response. Even though I disagree on the steel choice I respect and understand the decisions behind these things.

Looking forward to the long-form video or podcast when it gets released in the future!!

[twinboysdad]

Man I love it when MJ drops some knowledge like this! I have almost left my local shop with a Yo2 so many times and it was just a smidge bigger than I would carry business casual. This is a very exciting development and excited to get one!

[JRinFL]

Kind of an unfair assessment of people who do not prefer S30v steel. Maybe we prefer other steels for some of the same reasons other makers prefer to use alternative steels?

[Michael Janich]

Kind of an unfair assessment of people who do not prefer S30v steel. Maybe we prefer other steels for some of the same reasons other makers prefer to use alternative steels?

Dear JRinFL:

The key sentence in my statement about steel choice was "Truth be told, most knife enthusiasts never use their knives regularly or intensely enough to quantify the performance difference between steels." If you are in the minority of the folks that use your knife more intensely and can appreciate the nuances of performance, that's wonderful. However, you are still the exception to the rule. That's not unfair; that's reality.

Having just worked the Blade Show--the world's largest knife-oriented trade show--and spent three long days talking knives with hundreds of consumers, my opinion is reinforced. When folks come up to the booth and ask about exotic steels, I politely ask them what they use their knives for. Most of the answers I get describe casual utilitarian use that could be satisfied by any decent blade steel. The more astute knife users describe specific cutting applications and often have well-reasoned opinions on sharpening. I gladly do my best to point them in the right direction for a high-performance steel. Statistically, however, the astute users are a distinct minority.

I think it's also important to understand the business aspect of making knives--especially new models. Let's say I insisted on making the MicroJimbo in a specific exotic steel. Unless that steel supported a particular use (like H-1 and LC200N for Salt Series knives), it would be my personal preference as a designer. No matter what steel I chose, I would narrow the appeal of the knife and paint its potential as a design platform into a corner. Exotic steels also tend to cost more, which would mean that the new design--right out of the gate--would be higher priced than if it were produced with a mainstream steel. Some consumers would understand the correlation, but others--including those who don't understand or appreciate exotic steels--would dismiss the design as too expensive and potentially doom it to failure.

Stay safe,

Mike

[JRinFL]

Kind of an unfair assessment of people who do not prefer S30v steel. Maybe we prefer other steels for some of the same reasons other makers prefer to use alternative steels?

Dear JRinFL:

<snip>

Stay safe,

Mike

Thank you for the full and detailed response.

I would have to point out that while S30V is mainstream these days, it is still fairly exotic and relatively expensive compared to several other steels in common use. Your argument is a good one to justify a move to something like 14C28N or BD1N as the base steel as it keeps the price down and sharpening is much easier. Although I don't think that is how you meant it.

For me, S30V occupies an unhappy middle ground in price, performance, and sharpenability.

Thanks for listening and responding.

[vivi]

I've never owned an S30V Spyderco and found myself unhappy with the blade performance. My Yojumbo has been working quite well for me.

Hope the Military 2 has the same style detent as the Yojumbo - it's perfect.

[sal]

Thanx much for chiming in Mike.

Great stuff. Glad to have you as part of our team.

sal

[Jim Malone]

I like S30V. Never understood the whole " i'll only buy it when the handle is this hue and i need it in maxaSpy115V. Until Spyderco makes one i'm not buying one in black and peasant steel....sniff....

[David from NC 2]

Reality use versus "forum posts" and Instagram... : )

[JRinFL]

Yeah, sometimes. There are real reasons to prefer one steel over another and not just accept what is presented only because the maker has a large stockpile of it.
For the record, I use lots of steels like Aus-8, 440C, etc., which at the price point of the knives and their intended purposes are perfectly adequate. I would not pay premium for knives in those steels.

[Freediver]

This is on my must have list. It will be a perfect work carry for me.

[ZrowsN1s]

As one of the people who has lamented the thin tip of the Yojimbo2 (I've owned and carried 3 of them), maybe I can explain my position a little.

For EDC use, the tip is as strong and sturdy as anyone who is using a knife as a knife (not a screwdriver, scraper, or prybar) would ever need it to be.

For the MBC/CBC style which I've studied a little, it seems well suited. I understand the choice to make something better suited for edge first deep cutting rather than point first. But for other styles where the tip of the knife is more likely to forcefully encounter bone point first, it is not a blade I would choose.

Though I have yet to personally destructive test one of my own Yo2's, I've seen pictures and read reliable reports of the Yo2 failing the whole pig (as opposed to the pork man) test. When hitting solid bone the tip breaks clean off and fails where other more robust tips do not.

Which isn't to say that tips of knives like the P'kal, lil temperance, Emerson Elvia, or any knife might not fail as well in some instances, but they DO seem to hold up better than the Yo2.

I will also say that a broken tip Yo2 still functions.

....Anyways I hope that better explains why I wanted a more robust tip on the Yo2. To make it excel at a larger variety of defense styles. I realize that maybe putting a very thick tip on the Yo2 might defeat the purpose of the design, or take away from some of its slicing ability, but I thought there might be a middle ground. This flat grind seems to be a step in that direction so I welcome it.

*edit to add that my issue was never hollow vs flat grind, but with the actual thickness of the tip. You can make hollow, flat, and saber grinds with weak tips.

Left to right, Yo2, P'Kal, Elvia

[max808]

I played with the production sample at least a couple of times this past weekend.
Think lil native sized yojimbo 2 with a full flat grind and you’ve got it.

I like it. I’ll buy at least one. It’s my kind of knife.

The opening hole in the picture above looks huge. It didn’t seem that way to me in person.
I didn’t realize it would be full flat ground. I was surprised by that. I think it loses a bit of character by being ffg. IIRC, it’s quite a bit lighter than I expected. I was pleasantly surprised that it has a wire clip.

Thanks for sharing cjk, FFG sounds awesome. Do you remember what steel the prototype came in?