Spyderco Forums

sal wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:29 pm

Thanx Lance.

Hi Crox,

Spyderco is constantly testing corrosion in any possible situation. That's how we learn and improve. Coming out with a production knife that will reliably work for the user in salt water environments, as not an easy endeavor. Gail and I sought that solution for decades before making it available to you. We had to kiss a lot of toads. Now that we have many years of lab testing and Real-World-Testing and we are pleased to be able to serve you with our solutions.

sal

Sal,
It’s all very impressive. I’m enjoying geeking out and understanding the lengths you’ve gone to in your product. Much respect.

We should bear in mind that detailed information about coatings and compatible alloys for liners, pivots, and fasteners is something hard-won by Spyderco and is proprietary.

^ Indeed - I certainly didn’t intend or expect to get trade secrets. I thought I had seen the liner material specified here on the forum before.

Maybe a better question:

Lance, if you were to add a handle to your mule, what would you use to survive the torcher chamber? Or would you never add one due to the aforementioned issues with hardware?

Given the description of the Waterway, I’m thinking it could be quite a challenge (for me) to make the MC mule with a handle that is salt worthy.

This is in no way complaining or asking for secrets. Just genuine interest and forming project ideas for my own mule.

Crox wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:54 am

^ Indeed - I certainly didn’t intend or expect to get trade secrets. I thought I had seen the liner material specified here on the forum before.

Maybe a better question:

Lance, if you were to add a handle to your mule, what would you use to survive the torcher chamber? Or would you never add one due to the aforementioned issues with hardware?

Given the description of the Waterway, I’m thinking it could be quite a challenge (for me) to make the MC mule with a handle that is salt worthy.

This is in no way complaining or asking for secrets. Just genuine interest and forming project ideas for my own mule.

Chad Kelly has made me a number of rust proof custom knives in Vanax and LC200n. Titanium pins or hardware works well. The contact points are also isolated from corrosive contact by the glue on the handle. These knives have never shown any issue with galvanic corrosion.

Much harder to achieve that isolation in a folder.

Woodpuppy wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:31 pm

Much harder to achieve that isolation in a folder.

Exactly. With a fixed blade you could even just use G10 pins and epoxy the handle skip the metal hardware altogether but the hardware on a folder is a bit more critical.

Ok, time for an update. My apologies for taking so long to get back to this thread but I was in the USA for a couple of weeks. The knife stayed in its corrosive torture chamber for the duration of my trip and when I arrived back home it looked exactly like it did when I left. No signs of corrosion anywhere. At this point I’m almost ready to rank this in the Vanax/LC200N range (at least) in corrosion resistance. (Could turn out to be better but it will take more time and testing to know that). As of now though it is looking like it is more than suitable for a Salt knife, even in extreme conditions.

Regarding the edge performance, I have not tested that as rigorously as the corrosion resistance but I have used it to clean a number of large fish like Corvina, Snapper, Amberjack and Mahi Mahi. I have done this type of work for years now with LC200n and I can say without a doubt that Magnacut is outperforming that steel by a wide margin. After 8-10 fish like this I would have seen significant blunting on LC200n but the Magnacut still shaves arm hair cleanly and has good bite on the thumb or 3 fingers. So a definite improvement over LC200n in edge holding. Compared to Vanax? That’s a harder comparison and would require more systematic testing.

Now it’s time for some more testing. One of the ways that LC200n has shown susceptibility to rust is through galvanic corrosion. When left in contact with a dissimilar metal (especially one with lower corrosion resistance) it can show corrosion at the point of contact. Actually it does not even have to be in contact. Just the rust from another steel, if it bleeds onto lc200n, can cause a corrosive reaction that can create rust on lc200n that would not have otherwise occurred. I have actually experienced this on a Vanax and a LC200n knife that had non stainless hardware on the sheaths. The hardware bled a little rust that dripped onto the blade and both steels showed some pitting and edge degradation from that contact.

I know that this does not occur equally with all steels though. I have seen it happen to a similar degree on Vanax and LC200n and when I cleaned off the superficial rust I could see notable pitting on the steel when viewing with a 10x loupe. I have had similar experience with hardware bleeding rust onto H1 and the superficial rust wiped off and there was ZERO damage to the steel itself. So we know that H1 is a special kind of animal in this regard. What I’m curious is where does Magnacut fall in this scale? Will it be prone to the same damage from galvanic corrosion as Vanax and LC200n? Will it be worse? Or will it be closer to H1 in that type of corrosion resistance.

Honestly, I’m not overly concerned about the answer to this question. Spyderco has done a great job of executing production techniques to minimize and even eliminate this type of corrosion but it’s still an interesting question. I think we can all agree that whether we need it or not we all like a Salt knife to be as bulletproof as possible. That said, I was willing to give up that small bit of corrosion resistance for better edge performance when switching to lc200n…and that is coming from someone who is probably one of the more extreme use cases for the Salt knives. But now that I know that Magnacut has notably better edge performance at no apparent loss of corrosion resistance, I want to answer some of these smaller questions. If I find that it performs as well as lc200n in regard to galvanic corrosion then I’m all in on this steel. If it actually had some advantage in galvanic corrosion then it will be a holy grail steel for me.

So here’s my backyard experiment. I took an old Waterway and my mule, placed a piece of a small nail on the blade and doused both of them with a HIGH concentration saltwater. I plan to check each day with a loupe and see how both steels are responding then reapply more saltwater. I will try to update this thread as I have results.

Here is a photo of the setup.

Good stuff, thanks. I'm sure his has already been answered somewhere, but how easily does Magnacut sharpen compared to LC200N/H1?

thanks for the update. i'm getting more excited for MC the more I read posts like yours.

cabfrank wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:11 pm

Good stuff, thanks. I'm sure his has already been answered somewhere, but how easily does Magnacut sharpen compared to LC200N/H1?

Really depends on the heat treat. Magnacut isn’t a nightmare to sharpen by any means even at an extreme HRC, but it’s kind of a steel where using diamonds speeds things up.

My magnacut mule (62-63 HRC) sharpens kinda like s35vn on the choseras and doesn’t really need diamonds to sharpen.

I also have a custom at 65 HRC which feels really glassy on that stove and really benefits from diamonds. I use my venev stones on that one and it sharpens up great. I could absolutely use the choseras and get a great edge, but I prefer the diamonds in this case.

I also have a waterway in lc200n, and it’s much easier to sharpen than either magnacut knife.

I'm already sold, and it's no secret how much I've enjoyed LC200N, but even if it were only 95% as corrosion resistant as LC, the added edge retention is a fair trade off for what is still essentially a rust proof steel in all but the most specific situations, and I don't think my pocket on a rainy/humid day will be one of those situations.

Thanks, Lance! This thread is awesome, I'm learning a lot from it!

Jim

Evil D wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:38 pm

I'm already sold, and it's no secret how much I've enjoyed LC200N, but even if it were only 95% as corrosion resistant as LC, the added edge retention is a fair trade off for what is still essentially a rust proof steel in all but the most specific situations, and I don't think my pocket on a rainy/humid day will be one of those situations.

... Patiently waiting for YOUR testing thread about serrated Magnacut...

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:05 pm

Evil D wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:38 pm

I'm already sold, and it's no secret how much I've enjoyed LC200N, but even if it were only 95% as corrosion resistant as LC, the added edge retention is a fair trade off for what is still essentially a rust proof steel in all but the most specific situations, and I don't think my pocket on a rainy/humid day will be one of those situations.

... Patiently waiting for YOUR testing thread about serrated Magnacut...

... Patiently waiting for the knife to do such testing with

Yeah, that Pac Salt in LC200N I've been itching for, I'm gonna put that on hold for a minute.

Knife steels all over the planet are shivering in fear looking at that nail test setup.

Awesome feedback Lance! Exciting stuff.

That's some impressive corrosion resistance so far. Seems certain that it will be up to anything I will put it through.

Looking forward to these results.

cabfrank wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:11 pm

Good stuff, thanks. I'm sure his has already been answered somewhere, but how easily does Magnacut sharpen compared to LC200N/H1?

In my limited experience LC200N is easier to sharpen. Magnacut isn’t a pain, but LC200N is just very easy to sharpen.

I’d be perfectly happy with PE Magnacut in any one of my favorite folders.

Jim