Spyderco Forums

sal wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:27 pm

I really appreciate all of the comments and I appreciate the OP for re-posting it here.

Spyderco has evolved over a 40+ year period. As we evolved, we found that our market was changing and growing in a variety of areas. We have to balance some pretty diverse groups and that balance is always changing. Especially as new markets emerge. Suddenly we have a collector market. Suddenly we have a variety of collector markets. Suddenly we have Steel Junky's, Exclusives, Sprints, add capacity issues with most of our factories and partners.

We also have to plan for the future; how do we serve these markets? How do we deal with the higher costs without running to China? How many "new" models do we want to gamble with? Knowing that some will not last and we might not even recoup our tooling? rankly, it is a "puzzlement" that we are always juggling. That's why I wanted and appreciate a larger group of responses.

Most of the innovations are born in-house. Models like the Shaman took years to develop, and the two other variations are still waiting for a production slot. Shamans, "Roadies", Slipits take time to get them right enough to put into production. Even now, we have a number of new innovations that have been in development for years.

Threads like this one give us good input to think of while going forward.

sal

Like you said, it's a hard subject to juggle with. Sometimes designer pieces that doesn't sold hot cement your legacy as a company. The Slysz Bowie didn't bring the world on fire the first time, but now it's one of the most famous folder from recent memory, putting the Spyderco name on many mouths.

The collaboration with Martin Slysz was a very good call (Spyderco rat, when ? =D). I think Spyderco should keep on finding those kind of talents. Elijah Isham designed the wonderful Civivi Mckenna. I'm sure a collaboration with him would be something amazing.

I've tried to design a PM2 with a Nirvana blade and if you ever want to make it happen, you have my mail address.

RamZar wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:52 pm

There are some models that should've never made it to production. For instance, this year's Viele Phoenix Sprint Run with VG-10 and Red G-10 for a MAP price of $315! As much as I like the Taichung knives many fall into the same category. Spyderco produces one batch and done with many being sold when discontinued.

I think the Viele Phoenix was a nod of Spyderco paying its respects to Howard Viele (who passed away recently.) I think this model was not made to make a dollar, but to share this creators work and say goodbye to him. I think it was made in very good taste.

RamZar can you give some flop examples from Taiwan? My favorite knives are made there. Though my heart is with the Golden Colorado, U.S.A. Earth.

Kevinim82 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:45 pm

RamZar wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:52 pm

There are some models that should've never made it to production. For instance, this year's Viele Phoenix Sprint Run with VG-10 and Red G-10 for a MAP price of $315! As much as I like the Taichung knives many fall into the same category. Spyderco produces one batch and done with many being sold when discontinued.

I think the Viele Phoenix was a nod of Spyderco paying its respects to Howard Viele (who passed away recently.) I think this model was not made to make a dollar, but to share this creators work and say goodbye to him. I think it was made in very good taste.

RamZar can you give some flop examples from Taiwan? My favorite knives are made there. Though my heart is with the Golden Colorado, U.S.A. Earth.

Knives like Viele Phoenix add to Spyderco's overall unrecouped costs.

Pretty much anything from Taichung with a MAP of $300+. For instance: Drunken, Subvert, Nirvana, Mamba, Paysan, Lum Darn Dao, Zoomer, Province, etc.

I'm very happy with the current direction of Spyderco. They are the best at giving the customer base what they ask for. If they didn't do that the knives wouldn't be selling like they do now. I know what I want but I don't think because I want it that everyone else does too. I think there is some of that in the OP's premise.

Joe

Thanks Sal!

sal wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:31 pm

Hey Barry,

If you have questions about the history and development and thoughts of certain models, best to ask here. Also many others will get to hear the answers.

sal

RamZar wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:58 pm

Kevinim82 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:45 pm

RamZar wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:52 pm

There are some models that should've never made it to production. For instance, this year's Viele Phoenix Sprint Run with VG-10 and Red G-10 for a MAP price of $315! As much as I like the Taichung knives many fall into the same category. Spyderco produces one batch and done with many being sold when discontinued.

I think the Viele Phoenix was a nod of Spyderco paying its respects to Howard Viele (who passed away recently.) I think this model was not made to make a dollar, but to share this creators work and say goodbye to him. I think it was made in very good taste.

RamZar can you give some flop examples from Taiwan? My favorite knives are made there. Though my heart is with the Golden Colorado, U.S.A. Earth.

Knives like Viele Phoenix add to Spyderco's overall unrecouped costs.

Pretty much anything from Taichung with a MAP of $300+. For instance: Drunken, Subvert, Nirvana, Mamba, Paysan, Lum Darn Dao, Zoomer, Province, etc.

Thank you for your reply RamZar. I think your post helps get to the “meat” of this thread “is anyone else concerned?”

Dmitry Sinkevich makes custom pieces that start out in the 1000 dollar range and from what I can see, his knives are very difficult to acquire. Spyderco and the Taiwan plant make these custom collaborators accessible to a much larger population at a more affordable price. 300+.

Knives that are made as tribute to those who collaborate with Spyderco and have died; it let’s me know the people of Spyderco value relationships. This type of act is honorable. Honor has no price.

I am a happy owner of a Spyderco/Carter collab. Thank you Spyderco. I value Spyderco for its relationships.

I vote for this next.

Concerned?

About Spyderco? No.

About the particular global challenges we know it faces, and the ones we don’t? You bet I’m concerned.

But I trust Spyderco has smarts way greater than mine in dealing with capitalism’s traps.

I think it will wiggle free and keep us fascinated, but perhaps not in the same way it did when I first joined this forum ten years ago.

I prefer the Taichung and USA collaborations over the PM2/3/Shaman blade steel rotation but I also recognize I'm in the minority. As long as the exclusives and sprints keep selling out in >10 seconds, it's hard to argue against them.

I was very happy with the last two pieces from Lance, and realistically the Caribbean is probably the last knife I'll ever need.

I eagerly await new collabs and models if mostly just for fun of acquisition. The Lil Nirvana, if it ever comes out, sounds like an absolute EDC Grail piece.

I somehow missed this thread previously and I haven't had time to read through all four pages of discussion. So I'll apologize if this has been posted already.

You do realize that most of the collaboration models that you're (we're) missing come from the one Taichung plant and most of the dealer exclusives you're concerned about are from the Golden and Seki plants? I'm pretty sure Sal said awhile back that they had the Taichung plant pretty jammed and I'm sure there's still supply and manufacturing issues due to Covid. Maybe they haven't had any collaboration designs that they thought would sell well. I find that last part a stretch but it's possible

Personally, I have more than my fill of the knives I want from the Signature series and Golden models and have been leaning toward preferring Spyderco's in-house designs and collaboration models that are made in Taichung. I'm anxiously awaiting what's next but I have no concerns there's a long-term issue or change. I'm confident there'll be more good stuff coming. Just need a little patience

I'd love a Drunken, but I have a hard time dealing with the price. Same with the Paysan, and I want a Province but I'm waiting. I may regret waiting, but we'll see.

I love Taichung knives. All of the ones I've handled have been so excellent... The Sage 5 (which I sold because I preferred the para 3), Amalgam, Gayle Bradley 2, Magnitude, Sliverax... Amazing fit and finish, construction...

My favorite is the Shaman though, and I have 4. It's the best knife Golden makes imo. Stout and slicey. The Native Chief is amazing too.

And I love my Seki knives. I have a hard time getting my K390 Endura out of my pocket... Or my dlt 20cv Endelas...

I'm not concerned. Spyderco is the king imo. They have something for everyone, at all price points, and I think have the quality build and materials to prove it.

I'm concerned about prices. Currency is one thing but prices are going up every year anyway, quality is the same and it's maybe small inconvenience for US customers, but for Europeans it's really bad. In 7 months for example Watu at dealer is about $70 more expensive. Maybe $20 of that is caused by currency and inflation, rest as I've heard is because Spyderco is giving dealers higher prices. So I pick other affordable brands offerings instead, like Kizer.

Michal O wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:07 am

I'm concerned about prices. Currency is one thing but prices are going up every year anyway, quality is the same and it's maybe small inconvenience for US customers, but for Europeans it's really bad. In 7 months for example Watu at dealer is about $70 more expensive. Maybe $20 of that is caused by currency and inflation, rest as I've heard is because Spyderco is giving dealers higher prices. So I pick other affordable brands offerings instead, like Kizer.

When converted to euros, we now are paying the MSRP on these knives. And most of the "bigger" increase is just caused by the taxes due to importation and all. It's a big big part of the price we pay apparently.
MSRP on the Watu is $260 and I paid 218€ ($246) for it 1 month ago.

You're probably still in better situation, because in the worse scenario, that 218€ is probably less than 10% of your monthly earnings, not 25-50% for most people in Poland. But that's another topic about currency in some places.

It's difficult to get a company to change when they are selling everything they produce in two models. We should count ourselves lucky they produce anything more than their top 5 best selling products. Several are even made here in the States.

But, by all means, lets keep spreading FUD.

I'm more concerned about the knife world's focus on gimmicky stuff rather than the great performance to value ratio of the Seki FRN backlock models. The exclusives out of Seki have been slower sellers, so I'm concerned that dealers might stop doing them in favor of a 900th PM2 with some exotic scale. The Seki stuff is 99% of my collection at this point and pretty much the only stuff I am interested in (aside from Cru-carta models) I'm concerned new models/sprints/exclusives may slow down.

Models like the Spyderhawk, Jester, Catcherman, Lil matriarch SE and others being absent from the lineup is concerning. The fact we haven't seen an FRN Worker or an updated FRN Cricket is concerning. Still no FRN Dodo-fly or Cricket-fly is concerning. No Cru-carta Seki models is concerning. I am concerned!! :)

Not Seki related, but I am also concerned about the lack of any new Military releases and the lack of available production Militaries.

For me the year of Rex 45 sprints was the best, allowed me to get a steel in a knife I didn't have. Really liked the 1 steel through the whole line and 2 chances G10/Frn. Kind of covered all the knife junkies wants, got me into a few new designs. Add in 1 custom collaboration in with the unified sprint run would be perfect.

Need to trim the line down, to many products out of stock. Love the options, but want the availability to get back to normal. This should help with quality control, I don't like the robot sharpening.

No one designs user knives like Sal Glesser and users are what I come to Spyderco for. Spyderco is hand's down my favorite pocket knife maker and two models I've been most excited about in recent times are the Endela and RockJumper. I really want the RockJumper to succeed so Sal will make it in a leaf blade and then I can buy it and try it. Endela just got ordered.

Besides all the market factions and sudden mood swings of knife folks to contend with, Eric has an incredibly challenging job these days. I don't like it, but the fact is, there are some quality, innovative, affordable knives coming out of PRC and a lot of knife buyers will judge based off of those.

I've said here before that I worry more about the middle-of-the-road working class knives and the pricing on them more than anything else. I appreciate that Spydereco has to cater to a huge market of varied tastes but for me, that Endura family is the meat and I hope they can always remain sensible options.

I wanted to expand a bit...

I get much more frustrated with the knife community than I do Spyderco. So many buyers out there want every nifty feature in every offering.

Case in point for me is the SpyOpera. I immediately fell in lust with that knife when I saw the first picture. Neutral handle, Italian quality, back lock, perfect size... So much I want in a Spydie. But, the community places a strong priority on fidget-factor and back locks just aren't fun. So, in an effort to appeal to them, the SpyOpera gets worked so that it was a super smooth action but that results in it dropping on fingers if you aren't mindful. Just ruined it for me. Why does that need to be a thing on a back lock?

I can't blame Spyderco for that. But, by the same token, I can't judge the community if that is what they to spend their money on.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:22 am

It takes a lot of R&D time and money to make a new model, it comes out and basically gets shat on and almost immediately discontinued. How many times would you put yourself out there and take a business risk before you stop taking those risks? Sure you can blame Spyderco for whatever flaws you think are wrong with that knife design, but ultimately this is how we got here.

I think this is a big issue. It’s incredible how fickle so many in the knife community can be. Another knife that fell victim to this is the Brouwer. It was a fantastic and slim little knife, but the clip position didn’t facilitate “deep carrying”. People so definitively wrote it off that most didn’t even know that it’s clip position was adjusted through CQI. It is now discontinued, and I’m already seeing people saying “Wow! This knife is a gem! It’s gonna be big on the secondary market in a few years!” There are trends and fashionable themes that come and go, and many times if a new knife doesn’t mirror those trends it gets torn apart even if theres no actual problem with the design. However, I guess that the “knife community” is made up of a lot of individuals, and I do have a filter that knives have to pass through.

Bolster wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:16 am

New knives are introduced. I get most excited about the unique, new, strange, collectable ones. Then I start thinking about actually using these new knives…

After all the sorting, I go and buy another Manix. I know I will love it.

Knives really intrigue and excite me, but I have a very limited budget and I don’t have room for jewelry or shelf queens. If I buy a knife it’s gonna be in my EDC rotation to some extent, and I know what I like to use. It’s hard for me to drop the money on something I might not love. I really like Lance Clinton as a person, I love the functionality built into his designs, I’ve been wanting a Salt knife in something other than H1, I love the blue accents on the Siren, its blade shape, it’s handle shape… but then I saw Sal mention a Manix in Magnacut and that pretty much hit the top of my list. I get tired of seeing the endless stream of PM2 exclusives myself, but I’m telling you what, when I saw Knife Joker’s translucent teal 20CV Manix LW sprint I sure was there for the drop. I guess I’m part of the problem, but I don’t like it.