Spyderco Forums

Doc Dan wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:42 am

I am quite excited to see LC200N added to the line up. I am looking forward to my first knife in the steel so I can put it through its paces.

Now here is my question: If LC200N is a little better than VG-10 in edge retention, is it as easy to sharpen? (some steels can be a bear)

I can't tell a difference between the two steels in edge retention and the sharpen-ability seems about the same, maybe LC200N feels slightly easier but it would be close.

Nord wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:49 pm

Man I sure hope there are no ball bearings in the Caribbean or any Salt knife ever, just another place to get gunked up, especially in a knife that will see a lot of that if used for fishing etc. I'm sure Sal just misspoke though.

We are also learning that H1 may be better at corrosion resistance than LC

Given that it is only galvanic corrosion that is the issue then the answer would be to not use any dissimilar metals in the lock bar etc, or have them DLC'd like the coming Native 5 Salt (though I assume the DLC would wear on the contact point, so may not be a solution)

If lc200n is used for all metal parts, then the galvanic corrosion problem is gone.

It is a little disappointing honestly. I think we all had a lot of enthusiasm for Lc200n precisely because it would just as corrosion resistant as h1 but be stronger. If it's stronger but less corrosion resistant then for me it is a downgrade from H1. At least it is a solvable issue of galvanic corrosion and not an actual problem with the material itself.

Thank you Sal for updating us, I look forward to seeing how this plays out

A Compression lock without a Detent ball would be kinda average (the older ones didnt have detent balls and they arent as smooth). There are also a lot of steels that cant rust that ARENT LC200N and H1, and are much cheaper and better for making the hardware/liners from. :)

razorsharp wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:31 pm

There are also a lot of steels that cant rust that ARENT LC200N and H1, and are much cheaper and better for making the hardware/liners from. :)

Yes of course there are other steels that are highly rust resistant and good for liners, but I think perhaps you have not understood what I wrote or maybe aren't familiar with galvanic corrosion specifically. Using different steels for the liner and blade is the cause of galvanic corrosion, that's the point. Doesn't matter that each metal individually is "rust proof", galvanic corrosion is something different.

Galvanic corrosion happens when you have dissimilar metals in contact + an electrolyte. So if you are using LC200n for the blade, another steel with dissimilar chemistry for the liner, and then add an electrolyte you get galvanic corrosion just as Sal mentioned happened with the Caribbean in the testing.

If you are using the same metals in both the blade and liner you don't get galvanic corrosion- that is the advantage of using LC200n (or whatever steel) throughout a knife versus using different steels for the liner and blade.

This is one of the reasons for considering the use of a DLC or TiCN or NP3 or other coating on the liner/lock even on rust proof metals- the coating will help prevent galvanic corrosion from happening as you have insulated one of the dissimilar metals.

This is not really an issue as a practical matter for most end users though, most will never use these knives in a way that they will see this happen.

Super interesting to hear about the full Ti Caribbean!

So what steel is the other metal on the knife? H1 I assume?

sal wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:45 pm

Peter just finished testing the Caribbean models in LC200N. The first shipment just came in with the ceramic ball bearings. The plain edge tested well, about 30% better than plain edge H1. The serrated version tested about 4.8 times better than the plain edge.

We are also learning that H1 may be better at corrosion resistance than LC. We're finding that LC200N by itself is quite resistant to corrosion, but other materials attached to the LC may cause minor corrosion on some cases due to; galvanic reactions of material or accelerants like sulpher in the other materials. This was the case with the LC Mule that came back corroded. We're still testing. (I also need to know if we replaced that Mule?)

sal

Ok sure lesser metals corroded but back to LC200N. What did it do?

Crux wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:21 pm

Ok sure lesser metals corroded but back to LC200N. What did it do?

The LC200N corroded when next to sulfur containing materials. The LC200N exhibited galvanic corrosion when placed next other metals. That's what the paragraph you quoted said.

I also would love to know the ratio of edge life in SE to edge life in PE for a variety of steels Spyderco uses. I assume this is based on CATRA testing. Edited to add: okay, confirmed by Sal. That’s what I get for posting without reading all four pages of comments. Very exciting that LC200N is stellar in SE, just as H-1 is. It must be very tough, with good edge stability.

Bill1170 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:55 pm

I also would love to know the ratio of edge life in SE to edge life in PE for a variety of steels Spyderco uses. I assume this is based on CATRA testing. Edited to add: okay, confirmed by Sal. That’s what I get for posting without reading all four pages of comments. Very exciting that LC200N is stellar in SE, just as H-1 is. It must be very tough, with good edge stability.

but the original question still stands,

how much difference there is between SE and PE in the same blade steel (same thickness, grind, etc.)? :confused:

VG10, CTS-XHP, 8Cr13MoV, S30V, BD1...would be very interesting to know to try and find a pattern or common denominator for the PE/SE ratios :cool:

ThePeacent wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:28 am

Bill1170 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:55 pm

I also would love to know the ratio of edge life in SE to edge life in PE for a variety of steels Spyderco uses. I assume this is based on CATRA testing. Edited to add: okay, confirmed by Sal. That’s what I get for posting without reading all four pages of comments. Very exciting that LC200N is stellar in SE, just as H-1 is. It must be very tough, with good edge stability.

but the original question still stands,

how much difference there is between SE and PE in the same blade steel (same thickness, grind, etc.)? :confused:

VG10, CTS-XHP, 8Cr13MoV, S30V, BD1...would be very interesting to know to try and find a pattern or common denominator for the PE/SE ratios :cool:

Agreed, I’d love to know this ratio for a variety of steels.

Did the Pre-Order through Blade HQ a few weeks ago. The reason I didn't go for an H1 was that I would have been constantly after the edge. I'm willing to put up with a lot for great corrosion resistance, but I'm not willing to be constantly touching up the edge. 154CM is my baseline for edge retention. If a steel has worse edge retention than 154CM I probably am going to get annoyed with it and end up selling it. LC200N being comparable to VG10 in the edge retention department got my attention. practically corrosion proof and similary to VG10, with a compression lock and a great looking set of scales = instant pre-order.

Is there any news on the Caribbean and its release date?

I don't know if someone already asked this, or if this was touched on. Given the case of this particular issue will the Native 5 Salt LC200N also be afflicted? Lastly, does anyone know how susceptible the spideychef is to this problem?

Spyderman91 wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 2:42 am

I don't know if someone already asked this, or if this was touched on. Given the case of this particular issue will the Native 5 Salt LC200N also be afflicted? Lastly, does anyone know how susceptible the spideychef is to this problem?

what issue? The delay? :confused:

My guess is the finding that LC200N isn't exactly 100% rust proof. I'm not aware of any other issues.

What we're learning is that in some situations, corrosion can occur on nitrogen steels. It's rare and the circumstances are unusual. In the case of the Native, we're coating everything.

sal

sal wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 9:36 am

What we're learning is that in some situations, corrosion can occur on nitrogen steels. It's rare and the circumstances are unusual. In the case of the Native, we're coating everything.

sal

Blade included? :D

Blade included.

sal

sal wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 9:36 am

What we're learning is that in some situations, corrosion can occur on nitrogen steels. It's rare and the circumstances are unusual. In the case of the Native, we're coating everything.

sal

Sal, you previously mentioned that accelerants like sulfur (IIRC) are one of the culprits of LC200N corrosion, as well as galvanic corrosion. What common handle materials have sulfur, and can they be spec'd in low / no sulfur versions? I assume that phosphor bronze and titanium are both low sulfur and have low galvanic reactivity with LC200N since the only galvanic corrosion I've seen pics of on the Spydiechef was at the steel detent ball contact point. Last, how does Vanax compare to LC200N in terms of both accelerant and galvanic corrosion? Thanks.

We've not done much corrosion testing with Vanax, only CATRA. As far as "causal" agents (accelerants, galvanic, etc.) in corrosion of Nitrogen steels, we're still learning. We're using as much science as we can. There does not seem to be some ultimate source of knowledge.

sal