Are Spyderco prices getting out of your reach?

[can't freehand]

The problem that I see is a lack of new mid-range models. With the disappearance of the middle class in the U.S.A., maybe Spyderco is just marketing to the only two classes left. /sarc

A very valid point.

Lets be honest, shills, as there are literally so many shills on this forum: what kind of fisherman is seriously going to use the Vrango? I mean, frankly you'd look like a total douchebag. It can't be the kind that drives his Skeeter boat around in a $60,000 F-250, they're at best carrying Enduras. And imagine if your 'Vrango' (great name btw) falls into the lake? Wait, don't cast that way friend, your bait will catch my pocket jewelry's safety line that I have tied to my belt for insurance. The Vrango is designed to "catch the string". Uh, yeah, so is the Salt, and the Matriarch, and the Hawkbill. And really, if your Endura can't catch it, its probably because its dull.

I can see two reason for this large influx of pocket-jewelry tier Spyderco's: 1) the peculiar nature of the knife industry becoming ever more the province of rich people's fantasies and 2) Spyderco is also banking on people of all walks of life being so 'addicted' that they'll buy anything. They see bro's buying Striders (Burger knives) and say "hey, look at that, why not?". I certainly don't blame them for parting money from fools, that's the essence of business, but I'd hate to see Spyderco forgetting where it came from, and the catalog is really starting to look that way.

and the Tighe Stick: what in the world is that?

I bet my mother's life that everyone who buys the Nirvana is going to handle it with such care that it could be mistaken for radioactive Plutonium.

[EDC Honeybee]

double tap

[EDC Honeybee]

As someone who doesnt have a large collection and doesnt have a lot to drop on knives, I would say this is nothing new. I couldnt afford the spyderco new models a couple years ago, and I still cant. To me, what is more important is price to value. To someone that doesnt have much, a rubicon is not a good value, while a dragonfly probably is. Spyderco offers many knives that satisfy high value as well as high collectibility. If anything I think it is a branding issue. If spyderco labeled all of the $200+ knives part of a "premium line", then you wouldnt complain they are too expensive. Similar to how the byrd line and value line are differentiated. Not all knives are for all people.

Also, for america at least, I can find pretty much any current non-sprint for about 55% msrp (forgetting the coming price control). This puts the most expensive spydercos realistically capping at about $260ish-$275ish. As far as I have seen, you cant touch striders or CRK for that price, which still makes the high end spydercos a relatively good value. If I remember right, all the CRKs and Strider folders were $350+, with most closer to 450-600$

To me, I cant imagine spending $250+ on any production knives when I have seen many new makers on knife forums selling customs for under that price (given, only friction folders and fixed blades). I like the thought of having something completely unique and helping fund someone new to knifemaking. That isnt to say that those high-end spydercos aren't good, only that they probably dont fit into my list of priorities. Perhaps when I am more established and have some more money to spend, I might go grab one of each of the ethnic series. For now I will enjoy the less expensive knives. :)

[EDC Honeybee]

double tap

[SLajos]

I think twice to buy a Spyderco knife, because the high price.
I bought more knives from another manufacturers (in this year):
4 Spyderco
4 Benchmade
1 Zero Tolerance
1 Lionsteel
1 Chris Reeve

[Surfingringo]

It's a business, if these high priced designs don't sell we will eventually see lower priced designs.

^ This and nothing more. :)

[MarcusH]

Pricing is always an interesting discussion. Our margins have not increased in decades, In fact some have been reduced to the point of question. When our costs go up, for whatever reason, our prices have to go up. We always do our best to try to keep them as fair as possible.

sal

Hi Sal,

I think your point is only valid for the prices on the US market.
Obviously the MSRPs are calculated considering the large discounts given by the US sellers, although you will limit these to 40% in 2016.
I would consider the US street prices of Spydercos as more than fair.

For us folks across the pond the situation is completely different.
The European prices are calculated based upon the US MSRP and the current exchange rate, but it is almost impossible to get a descent discount here.
As far as I can see, Spyderco is the only major company in the knife industry who has this price policy.

Some examples to make my point clear, I'd like to compare the US and German street prices of some well known models from other companys.
CR Small Sebenza: US 370$, Germany 395€
BM 940-1: US 270$, Germany 290€
ZT 801: US 190$, Germany 190€

But the prices for some higher-end Spydercos look like this:
Rubicon: US 280$, Germany 420€
Proficient: US 270$, Germany 470€
LionSpy: US 280$, Germany 460€
Burch Chubby: US 200$, Germany 320€

You see, it is quite hard for the old faithful Spyderco afis here in Europe and I can understand very well that a lot of them stopped buying Spydercos.

Marcus

[FCM415]

How do you propose that a fair price be made for you?

You've been getting hammered on this thread but this is a key question...

[FCM415]

A reason why Europe gets those crazy prices is due to lack of market/dealer competition. From what I understand, it's a monopoly there, one main importer/dealer? A side note, here in the states with knife companies, MAP is a way to prevent that issue. If enough dealers dropped Spyderco or bellied up, you think the winning dealer and Amazon won't raise their prices once they have a monopoly?

[shunsui]

The problem isn't the price so much as the quantity.

I'd like to buy many knives. This is the golden age of knives and they're a lot of good ones out there.

Can't afford them all, so I make personal decisions such as favoring the S110V G10 Military over the 52100 CF Millie.

[demoncase]

The European's Spyderco prices remind me of how everything I buy that is made in Europe is exponentially more expensive than what they pay there locally. Cars, shoes, watches you name it. Yeah we deal with it too unfortunately.

Yep- I checked out the price of my Volvo S60 to the same spec in the US....It's nearly exactly double.

[Cujobob]

Spyderco is making more refined models at higher price points that are essentially copies of custom folders. They still produce plenty of mid-tier offerings in the $100-200 range. These high end production pieces that make custom options available to regular people who would actually use the knives rather than just collect them are very appealing to me. There are plenty of great knife options available less than $200. One can save up and purchase the one they want, they don't have to get them all

The Slysz Bowie and techno are fantastic pieces and two favorites in my collection. If they made lesser quality versions, I wouldn't be interested. Knives like the Double Bevel have been around... Those with lower price tags but are interesting collabs.

[jimmyjohnjohn]

the OP has posed a question, for which YOUR answer is obviously "no", but for which others may share a concern. Statements like "how can anybody claim..." are non-contributory and unhelpful to this discussion.

Fair enough, point taken.

To me, I view the new, higher-end Spyderco models as an indication that Sal, Eric, and crew are continuing to improve their work, which I heartily applaud.

Regarding the relatively higher values of the new products, any scientist would obviously see that introducing several high value items into a population where the population's average value was less than the new, high value items will raise the new average value of the population (inclusive of the new items). I believe that's not very remarkable as it's kind of obvious, right?

So again, to highlight specific examples which I believe are evidence against the argument that Spyderco's new knives are markedly more expensive than previous models, the Positron ($165), Gayle Bradley 2 ($135), Para 2 s110v ($135), and Manix 2 lightweight s110v ($110) aren't enough?

And who buys 3 or 4 knives per month? How is that sustainable? Who expects a knife company to design and produce 3 to 4 entirely new knives per month, lol.

[araneae]

the OP has posed a question, for which YOUR answer is obviously "no", but for which others may share a concern. Statements like "how can anybody claim..." are non-contributory and unhelpful to this discussion.

Fair enough, point taken.

To me, I view the new, higher-end Spyderco models as an indication that Sal, Eric, and crew are continuing to improve their work, which I heartily applaud.

Regarding the relatively higher values of the new products, any scientist would obviously see that introducing several high value items into a population where the population's average value was less than the new, high value items will raise the new average value of the population (inclusive of the new items). I believe that's not very remarkable as it's kind of obvious, right?

So again, to highlight specific examples which I believe are evidence against the argument that Spyderco's new knives are markedly more expensive than previous models, the Positron ($165), Gayle Bradley 2 ($135), Para 2 s110v ($135), and Manix 2 lightweight s110v ($110) aren't enough?

And who buys 3 or 4 knives per month? How is that sustainable? Who expects a knife company to design and produce 3 to 4 entirely new knives per month, lol.

While the first 2 sentences are perhaps your most constructive contribution of the thread, you continue to challenge statements I never made, and by including the scientist reference I assume you are directing it at me again. I'm not, nor did I challenge the laws of simple mathematics. As I previously stated, your unrelated arguments will remain that and I question whether you understand the points I originally made; or perhaps you just don't care.

[jimmyjohnjohn]

You can't make an example of and an argument about a small subset of X and then infer/imply that it applies to X as a whole. That's why I'm steering my points, in response to your inference here. You're logically cheating and would get shredded were you to submit such a thing for review.

[araneae]

You are the one hung up on comparing a knife forum post with a scientific article, but if you want to go that route, your peer review of my article would be viewed as irrelevant as you continually make inferences and refute statements I never made. If you think looking at all of the Spyderco new items listed at Knife Center, averaging their price and making an inference about how they represent the cost of new offerings from Spyderco is flawed- so be it.

I'm here to talk knives with others that wish to engage in constructive conversation, not bicker with someone who seems to have a bone to pick with me.

[awa54]

The 'bread and butter' models- the Harpy, the Civilian, the Police, the Military, the PM2, the Manix 2, the Delica, the Endura are all below that average- significantly in most cases.....and it's these 'bread and butter' models that most 'non-Spydie-fans' buy.

That's true, but I have the feeling that the European collectors, who are willing to buy the higher-end models, are quite disappointed with Spdercos price policy.
The European prices are absolutely ridiculous, I know a lot of old Spyderco afis across the pond who started boycotting Spyderco because of that.
I doubt that any knife with a MSRP over 350$ has reasonable sales here in Europe.

Example:
The two big Spyderco retailers in Germany are trying to sell the Stretch 2 for almost the street price of a small Sebenza, converted according to the current exchange rate they are trying to charge 400$.
I guess they haven't sold a single one of them.

How is this Spyderco's fault? It's the European distributors and individual retailers who set wholesale and retail prices. If import duties and shipping from the country of origin make a knife cost $400 shipped to the end user, then why would the in-country retailers undercut that? ...well obviously to up their sales numbers and make some customers happy, but if demand is strong enough that people are still buying, then this will continue to happen.

[jimmyjohnjohn]

If you think looking at all of the Spyderco new items listed at Knife Center, averaging their price and making an inference about how they represent the cost of new offerings from Spyderco is flawed- so be it.

That's exactly right. You don't get to say: "Look at the price of these knives on the Knife Center pre-order page. This small group of knives indicate Spyderco is pricing themselves out of reach of the average user. The price of these few knives are above my comfort zone. Spyderco prices are above my reach."

This is intellectually disingenuous. You are taking a select group of knives that were posted on Knife Works pre-order page, passing judgement on them, then applying those judgements to all Spyderco knives, suggesting that Spyderco is pricing themselves out of reach of the average user. I presented evidence which showed why this assertion is false, as there are many new knives which are more affordable. You also plainly stated that you intentionally ignored other more affordable Spyderco knives, which more or less helps prove my point.

Furthermore, your calculation methods are incorrect. You cannot simply take the average price of the models shown on Knife Works pre-order page and state that this number is representative of the average price of Spyderco's new releases in 2016. Many more models, which are less flashy and more inexpensive, will also be released in 2016. Those will inevitably bring down your average price calculation.

In essence, you're cherry picking.

Finally, at one point you asked Sal if he would do more low-end collaborations, but he already has (Gayle Bradley 2, Southard Positron) as I pointed out. You did not acknowledge these.

[Surfingringo]

Going slightly sideways from the topic, but whatever...

The Gayle Bradley folder has long been acknowledged by many as one of the best values in the entire Spyderco lineup at $150. I think that one of the biggest and most pleasant surprises of all the upcoming folders is that the new GB2 is going to be $135!!! Can't speak for anyone else but that sounds like a helluva value to me! :)

[Blerv]

Hi Sal,

From my perspective the nudging of MSRP's (mainly due to decisions and increased costs over the years) may be one of lament but for me it's not one of blame.

I think knives like the Rubicon are amazing accomplishments and have made people very happy. Your competitors are also pushing up the costs each year based on decision making. While functionally these expensive knives are not multiple-times more effective than your budget knives they certainly are more impressive than past creations of the same philosophy. F&F, materials, style, etc. In fact dollar for dollar collaboration models while "pricey" are still the most practical way to own an artist's knife while not missing a rent payment. :)

I'm always excited to see more pedestrian models as they are easier to impulsive-buy. If forced to only have a couple high-end of your knives I'm sure they would all stand the test of time.