Spyderco Forums

I am excited to see Spyderco's take on Phil's Bird and Trout. I have Phil's 4" model in Black Micarta in CPM-154. It has seen a lot of use. Alot in the kitchen but I have used it for a multitude of tasks. Now that I finally did some bird hunting it will get to clean some Pheasant this weekend.

If Spyderco is using the 3.5" pattern It would be nice to see them take it to at least .015" behind the edge. I don't think that is anything the standard market couldn't handle and to me that starts to hit a pretty high level of performance. My custom is ground to .007" behind the edge. The Nilakka had some reports of damage early on but nothing catastrophic that I saw. If they marketed the Sprig similarly, I think they could get away with a relatively lean grind.


On the topic of edge finish, lately I finish it on a Spyderco medium ceramic rod. It will still take a push cutting edge at this finish, but has very high slicing aggression still. I have used it with a polished edge when I was whittling on some wood. Still held up fine. It has taken little rolls here and there, but nothing that isn't easily repairable. I'll just leave a few pictures. I used it as a cheese knife last night.

Very nice. :)

Looks like a real cutter to me. :D

Here is the Coyote Meadow that I just tested.

What a couple of beauty shots!
Talk about wolves in sheeps clothing...And how about 2400 cuts of hemp for that Coyote Meadow in Jim's testing. Anyone remember the old saying, thin is in?

Ray Allen wrote:What a couple of beauty shots!
Talk about wolf's in sheeps clothing...And how about 2400 cuts of hemp for that Coyote Meadow in Jim's testing. Anyone remember the old saying, thin is in?

And still had a usable edge on it too, still sliced phone book paper after, printer paper was nothing almost push cutting still.

Took all of 5 mins to sharpen it back to send back out. :)

Ankerson wrote:Very nice. :)

Looks like a real cutter to me. :D

Thanks, yeah it glides through whatever I am cutting :D.

Nice Coyote Meadow. I really like that design as well.

SteelSpyder wrote:

Ankerson wrote:Very nice. :)

Looks like a real cutter to me. :D

Thanks, yeah it glides through whatever I am cutting :D.

Nice Coyote Meadow. I really like that design as well.

Wish it was mine. :D

Ankerson wrote:

SteelSpyder wrote:

Ankerson wrote:Very nice. :)

Looks like a real cutter to me. :D

Thanks, yeah it glides through whatever I am cutting :D.

Nice Coyote Meadow. I really like that design as well.

Wish it was mine. :D

Yes, I suppose that would make it better .

Ankerson wrote:Here is the Coyote Meadow that I just tested.

:eek: Jim that one is a stunner!

xceptnl wrote:

Ankerson wrote:Here is the Coyote Meadow that I just tested.

:eek: Jim that one is a stunner!

Thanks, not mine though have to send it back.

Sad day when it goes back. :D

It's a real monster, best I have seen yet, so little wear on the edge I had to really look hard to see it and could barely feel it when I ran the edge over my thumbnail.

It wasn't anything resembling dull or even getting dull after 2400 cuts on 5/8" rope, I could have turned around and used the knife as is after the testing.

Got to love Phil's work. :cool:

What a great thread and pics.
Any dates for this one yet? I can't wait to add it the the Wilson collection.

Those are all nice knives. Jim, is that Ironwood on that Coyote Meadow in 10V? Whatever it is it's a beautiful, state of the art in high performance cutters.

Joe

The Mastiff wrote:Those are all nice knives. Jim, is that Ironwood on that Coyote Meadow in 10V? Whatever it is it's a beautiful, state of the art in high performance cutters.

Joe

Joe,

Yeah that's Iron wood. :)

Jim

Finally got my Bird and Trout knife! It is the nicest knife I have ever held! Couldn't be happier, and I think this means I am going to be selling the Smoke Creek now to regain some knife funds :D

Looking good. :D

I would like to revisit geometry momentarily, if you'd allow me, in part inspired by this quote which I think launched a very reasonable discussion:

chrisp wrote:That does not appear to be a trout; nevertheless, I am impressed at your proactive move to commission a custom from the collaborator. Do Spyderco make their models from as thin blade stock as Phil Wilson? It seems that the South Fork is as popular a fixed blade as any they have made. I enjoy your real-world reports of knives in a saltwater environment.

Thanks!

My Spyderco Phil Wilson came at .7mm above the apex. This is comparable to a Spyderco Para2, or my Busse ASH1. I thought a picture of the ASH1 would be in order here:

I picked an image (from the googlez, and again feel free to search for something that has a unit for scale to your taste) with a 1911 as I thought it'd give people a good sense of scale, and the fact that this Busse is a chopper.

Even by Spyderco standards, this is relatively obtuse geometry reserved for their "tactical" knives, and of course used by Busse on a chopper carrying a "if you can manage to break it, we'll replace it free" warranty.

Going in the opposite direction, Busse (know for their extreme use knives) not terribly long ago released a series of knives in Elmax ground to .3mm above the apex. I put a picture of one below. They didn't release them with some sort of extensive disclaimer, amended warranty, customer one-on-one interviews, or anything of the sort. They put them on sale for roughly 100$ (no sheath), and some on the Spyder forums may be shocked to hear that what followed was not armageddon brought on by hundreds of disgruntled users who attempted to baton through logs, steel chain, and an entire car (all three have happened with regular Busses, the events were celebrated by the company, and oh yeah the knives didn't fail) and were absolutely baffled as to why the little scrapmax couldn't take it.


And even here, in Spyder land, the Phil Wilson custom is comparatively thick ground. The Sage series is run leaner, in the ~.5mm range, as are many of the Seki models or the Gayle Bradley (both of them) for that matter.

So that is my data point of 1 unit. I'm not saying it is a garbage knife, or anything of the sort, but I did regrind it. I also don't think that most Spyderco customers are as unintelligent as some people are implying. Yes, if you hang around the forums you get some amount of sample bias because this is where some people will come to discuss issues, but in general I suspect people don't buy Spyders without having a clue what they are. Why? Because, compared to a number of other brands, they tend to be more expensive. If you look at the current Phil Wilson collab, it has a 425$ MSRP. Certainly you aren't weighing options and land on that knife without having a clue what it is, when there are hundreds of other knives which look good and cost less. It is, like most Spyders, the choice for a discerning customer. So no, I don't think that Spyderco's target audience are drooling idiots who can't figure out that batonning through a frozen fish with a rolling pin isn't a brilliant idea for a knife ground to <.1mm thick above the apex is a bad idea. People who don't know anything about quality cutlery probably couldn't handle it, but as I mentioned before they also probably wouldn't end up buying a Spyderco. Spydercos also, charmingly, come with a little "Edge-U-Cation" printout on every knife, so god forbid someone sees fit to include a warning/disclaimer, it'd be pretty trivial to offer the education to the ELU.

And on a final note/example, how many broken Matriarch and Civilian tips have you seen? I've not seen any. I'm guessing some of the more regular forumites may have seen one or two. How many do you think they've sold over the years? The matriarch I bought my wife came with a little tag attached with a disclaimer saying that the tip was delicate. I suspect the overwhelming majority of such knives remain intact.

So, in summary, yes I think that Spyderco customers are adequately intelligent and the performance benefits are sufficient to justify producing a bird and trout knife with a leaner grind than .7mm above the apex. Just my 2c.

Holland wrote:



Finally got my Bird and Trout knife! It is the nicest knife I have ever held! Couldn't be happier, and I think this means I am going to be selling the Smoke Creek now to regain some knife funds :D

Is that his (Phil's) black micarta? I've got something in the works with him and curious what it looked like in the real life. Thank you, sir.

Adam

To quote phil, it's "black/maroon G10 with the maroon being very subtle" I think the knife at the top of the page is black micarta though

I was sad it wasn't in the catalog!

bornagainprimative wrote:I was sad it wasn't in the catalog!

I still wouldn't be completely shocked if it debuts at one of the events this year even though it wasn't in the catalog.