Am I the only one who isn't a fan of VG-10?

[chuck_roxas45]

I just had to do it even if it was dark already.

VG-10 endura 26° inclusive, brown rod micro at 30°. 400 cuts, no longer shaving but still cutting cardboard without tearing it. No edge damage at all.

[Stainz]

I only have two VG-10 bladed folders - both are Kershaw 1993-2 'Gentleman's Folder' models (closeout specials); one, a resharpened user and the other 'still new' as a reference. Like every other VG-10 bladed knife I have seen, they were made in Japan. They started out microtome sharp. Despite careful use and cleaning of my Sharpmaker, I cannot seem to get that user's edge 'razor sharp' again. 'User sharp' is straight forward - like S30V - but unlike S30V, no amount of time seems sufficient to get the razor edge on VG-10. I mainly avoid it now anyway because it means the knife was made in Japan - and I like to buy US-made products, whether bladed with US-made steel or Austrian made Bohler (m390, N690, & ElMax rule!) - just as long as the knife was made here. Okay, made in Germany is not so bad, either! Sorry, Sal, but my few - and foreseeable future purchase Spydies - all have: 'Golden, Colorado USA Earth' on them!

Stainz

[chuck_roxas45]

I only have two VG-10 bladed folders - both are Kershaw 1993-2 'Gentleman's Folder' models (closeout specials); one, a resharpened user and the other 'still new' as a reference. Like every other VG-10 bladed knife I have seen, they were made in Japan. They started out microtome sharp. Despite careful use and cleaning of my Sharpmaker, I cannot seem to get that user's edge 'razor sharp' again. 'User sharp' is straight forward - like S30V - but unlike S30V, no amount of time seems sufficient to get the razor edge on VG-10. I mainly avoid it now anyway because it means the knife was made in Japan - and I like to buy US-made products, whether bladed with US-made steel or Austrian made Bohler (m390, N690, & ElMax rule!) - just as long as the knife was made here. Okay, made in Germany is not so bad, either! Sorry, Sal, but my few - and foreseeable future purchase Spydies - all have: 'Golden, Colorado USA Earth' on them!

Stainz

The problem is not with the steel.

[dbcad]

I only have two VG-10 bladed folders - both are Kershaw 1993-2 'Gentleman's Folder' models (closeout specials); one, a resharpened user and the other 'still new' as a reference. Like every other VG-10 bladed knife I have seen, they were made in Japan. They started out microtome sharp. Despite careful use and cleaning of my Sharpmaker, I cannot seem to get that user's edge 'razor sharp' again. 'User sharp' is straight forward - like S30V - but unlike S30V, no amount of time seems sufficient to get the razor edge on VG-10. I mainly avoid it now anyway because it means the knife was made in Japan - and I like to buy US-made products, whether bladed with US-made steel or Austrian made Bohler (m390, N690, & ElMax rule!) - just as long as the knife was made here. Okay, made in Germany is not so bad, either! Sorry, Sal, but my few - and foreseeable future purchase Spydies - all have: 'Golden, Colorado USA Earth' on them!

Stainz

I agree with chuck on this. Properly sharpened vg-10 will take an extremely sharp edge :D All of my vg-10 edges easily pushcut freely hanging phonebook pages :)

Japan has many centuries of steel and blade making culture behind them. Makers in Seki City help maintain that culture and level of excellence :) The blades made in Seki City are amongst the finest I own :D

Please take the time and effort to properly sharpen your vg-10 edges before casting aspersions on the material and the country of manufacture. The results will be well worth the effort :)

[Blerv]

I just had to do it even if it was dark already.

VG-10 endura 26° inclusive, brown rod micro at 30°. 400 cuts, no longer shaving but still cutting cardboard without tearing it. No edge damage at all.

Game. Set. Match. :D

[cckw]

I am not a big VG10 fan. I'm not going to complain about it, but consider it the bottom of good. Basically different people like different things or traits in their blade. I am one who prefers the D2, S30v types. But if I like a knife that has VG10 or 154CM it doesn't change my mind. I once said something in a post that showed my attitude on VG10 and got dog piled, so haven't mentioned it since until today.

[Diamondback]

I just had to do it even if it was dark already.

VG-10 endura 26° inclusive, brown rod micro at 30°. 400 cuts, no longer shaving but still cutting cardboard without tearing it. No edge damage at all.

....well there you have it ! What a great vaule those Endura's are; not too fancy, just a good solid, well made knife that will get the job done.

I love my FFG Endura : enough blade length to cut a sandwich in half, plenty of room in the handle to adjust for a comfortable grip, and light weight but durable ; all of the above in a nice flat package that rides unobtrusively in my back pocket. Paid $50 bucks for it out-the-door. Talk about value.

[Invective]

Steel selection has much to do with the country of origin. The Japanese make some very good steels, as do the Europeans and the Americans. When making knives in Japan, We'll select Japanese steels from one of the foundries in Japan. VG-10 is made by Takefu in Japan. We also use H1 and ZDP-189 as regular models. Sometimes we do short runs with Super Blue (Hitachi) or Takefu Damascus.
sal

Hey Sal, just a quick question. Have you ever thought about or tested SKD-11? From what I've heard about it, it's a Japanese version of CPM-D2. I know there are a few knives from Japan that I would have liked to see in CPM-D2, the Khukuri, Barong, and Captain I feel all would be able to benefit from the increased toughness, and an Endura Sprint would be interesting as well. The only reviews I have seen of it come from kitchen knives so I would be interested to hear how well it would perform in heavier cutting duties.

Thanks!

[sal]

Hi Invective,

From what I could find, the carbon and chrome contents were not close to CPM-D2 or CTS-XHP. Do you have more info?

sal

[chuck_roxas45]

I am not a big VG10 fan. I'm not going to complain about it, but consider it the bottom of good. Basically different people like different things or traits in their blade. I am one who prefers the D2, S30v types. But if I like a knife that has VG10 or 154CM it doesn't change my mind. I once said something in a post that showed my attitude on VG10 and got dog piled, so haven't mentioned it since until today.

I would say that people replied to your post about your negative experience with their own positive experiences. The positive experiences that other folks have about VG-10 may just have been a lot more than yours. Hence the "dogpile".

What do you use your knives for and what happened with your VG-10 that made you dislike it?

[Cliff Stamp]

SKD11 is the JIS designation for D2 (ASTM), it isn't necessarily a P/M steel though.

[Invective]

Hi Invective,

From what I could find, the carbon and chrome contents were not close to CPM-D2 or CTS-XHP. Do you have more info?

sal

Thanks for the reply Sal, I was just going off the steel charts I found on zknives.com and a review of some SKD-11 kitchen knives, although they were hardened to 64 HRC.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/st ... p?nm=SKD11

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/cpm_d2.shtml

http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/ktknv ... y120.shtml

SKD11 is the JIS designation for D2 (ASTM), it isn't necessarily a P/M steel though.

Ahh my mistake, thanks for the clarification!

[Ed Schempp]

I like VG-10, for me it takes the least amount of maintenance to keep a reasonable edge. I have chipping issues with ZDP and S30V. I really don't tolerate chips and sharpen them out of the edge. I sharpen with a slack belt of 40 microns and then buff. This edge is a polished micro serrated edge. The slack belt flexes and gives me a hamaguri or apple seed edge that is a very strong geometry for edge support and longevity. I rarely have uniform edge geometry. I have a strong point 40-45 degrees then transition to 20-25 and then to 30-40 near the plunge. I believe this geometry is consistent with the types of tasks I perform and where I do the cut on the blade.

About 10 years ago I took my C83 Persian to the shot show. The Catra people had a machine that measured sharpness. I had not sharpened my knife before the show so I gave it about 10 passes per side on the Sharpmaker. The machine measured resistance to cutting a fixtured piece of rubber. They only recorded the results if they were better than anything they previously recorded, the lower the number the better. We had a new H1 knife out of the box tested and it was slightly more pressure than the record of 1.28 that was leading the list. The numbers recorded were dropping a hundredth or two per recording. The Persian came in at 1.08, two tenths better than the next knife and was the sharpest knife at the Shot show that year; in the realm of the razor blades that were tested.

For every time my knife is sharpened I buff it several times to return to a serviceable edge. My EDC sees the grinder a couple of times a year and has not lost very much steel or even noticeably changed the profile of the Blade, once I establish my preferred geometry.

Being a very pragmatic guy, VG-10 is still my favorite production user steel, nothing personal; it is just about time spent maintaining the tool.

Your environment has a lot to do with what steel works the best for you. In an urban setting you cut more synthetic than organic material as a rule of thumb and the more synthetic the material that you cut the more Vanadium carbides shine. When immersed in an organic world of cutting Carbon steels shine...Take Care...Ed

[Invective]

Your environment has a lot to do with what steel works the best for you. In an urban setting you cut more synthetic than organic material as a rule of thumb and the more synthetic the material that you cut the more Vanadium carbides shine. When immersed in an organic world of cutting Carbon steels shine...Take Care...Ed

Thanks for your insight Mr Schempp it explains a lot. I bought your Khukuri and a Captain to be used as outdoors knives and they have performed exceptionally. VG-10 is a great steel and one o the best all-around steels in my opinion but I feel that SKD-11 could make them even better in in certain applications. Thanks for your post as well, I am not sure if it was brought about when I named two of your knives as ones I felt could use a different steel and I assure you I meant no offense.

[cckw]

I would say that people replied to your post about your negative experience with their own positive experiences. The positive experiences that other folks have about VG-10 may just have been a lot more than yours. Hence the "dogpile".

What do you use your knives for and what happened with your VG-10 that made you dislike it?

Your post is exactly what I mean. I did not say I had a bad experience. I merely expressed my preference and you get your panties in a wad.

[chuck_roxas45]

Your post is exactly what I mean. I did not say I had a bad experience. I merely expressed my preference and you get your panties in a wad.

Haha, I just wanted to know what your experience was and my panties are now in a wad? Are you this defensive all the time?

I guess I was spot on then. You view difference of opinion as a dogpile.

[chuck_roxas45]

triple post?

[Blerv]

When people describe steels are chippy or rolly ( :p ) it's helpful to draw comparison to other materials. Additionally when they refer to steels as "good" or "bad" that is a very rudimentary description since all products have good and bad qualities. Even price for many (honest) people is hugely important.

A product has to have a benefit or it won't be produced; if not it usually becomes archaic and is phased out. VG10 is a balanced Japanese staple. That means no huge perks or gaping flaws. It's a rational answer for varied tasks and users making a great choice (one of many) for Japanese Spyderco knives.

The Internet is one of the only places where raw numbers rein supreme over pragmatic functionality. A sports car that idles in traffic and has traction in third gear is simply inadequate.

[kbuzbee]

Well, weren't you just waxing philosophic last night, Blake! (hey, I enjoyed it!)

Ken

[chuck_roxas45]

double post.