Ever thought of a Strider/Spyderco collab model?

[psychophipps]

Perhaps a good hard use folder would be Zero Tolerance? I have heard good things about their gear. Regardless of politics - design flaws and bad production are a big no go for me.

Thanks guys for not letting this thread get locked - you just saved me $600 AU.

If you like the looks of Striders but prefer a lower cost and price point then ZT is probably your best bet. They have done a bunch of Strider/Ken Onion/Kershaw collabs like the 350 series that are very high quality and very popular.

[hunterseeker5]

I'm not entirely comfortable discussing another brand in depth on the spyderco forum as I think its disrespectful. That said I own several members of the ZT line. If hard use/abuse is a character trait you are interested in the 0300, 0301, 0302, and 0303 are all excellent choices. Again though they just have thick edges, and so won't cut as well as the spydercos you may be used to.

[Jordan]

I've handled some ZTs at my local B&M shop... wasn't overly impressed, but they seemed well built for the price. Given my (by now) well known... lets call it sensitivity... about Strider knives, when I found out they were involved, the chances of my buying one dropped to 0. If you want the best "hard use" knife in the industry, save your pennies and go with Emerson. They are built like tanks AND they can cut.

[Blerv]

I think this forum does a good job in general (especially compared to other forums) at keeping the smack-talk to a minimum. If any there are trace levels of it.

Strider, Emerson, CRK, etc...all amazing knives and quite tough. Kershaw, BM, Cold Steel...quality manufacturers among their respective price range and philosophies. With the current Spyderco offerings chances are I won't be shopping with them though.

It's ok not to want a collab. I love Spyderco and think the SpyKer was pretty odd (sorry). I think the same would happen with this one. That's not a knock to the manufacturer but a preference to blending methodologies.

Who knows? If it happens I won't oppose it till I hold it! :)

[MikeZ]

Perhaps a good hard use folder would be Zero Tolerance? I have heard good things about their gear. Regardless of politics - design flaws and bad production are a big no go for me.

Thanks guys for not letting this thread get locked - you just saved me $600 AU.

I'll weigh in before this thread closes shop (if it does).

First of all, some of the most popular Zero Tolerance knives are Strider collaborations with Ken Onion. I don't care for the recurve on those models because they're a pain to sharpen using stones.

The SNG is a classic knife design, IMO. I carry a Strider PT almost always because I like a smaller knife for everyday use. It's as sharp as a razor and incredibly ergonomic.

Sal is a gentleman's gentleman and a great knife designer. I have knives from other designers and I'm not sure if they're nice guys or not, and I don't care much, though I appreciate that Sal is. I get a nice feeling from the Spyderco company. That having been said, if anyone is not a nice guy (within reason) and designs a great knife, I will buy it. The guy is not coming to live at my house, just his knife design.

I have had brand new Strider's that have come to me with a minor problem, but I've sent them back and, no questions asked, they are fixed and returned promptly. I've never needed to return a knife a second time. I have also had a few Spyderco's go back to the shop and come back home with prompt service and no questions asked. Quality customer service like that trumps the quality control issue for me. I KNOW I'm going to wind up with a perfect knife in the end for my hard earned cash.

As a knife guy it just seems silly to no partake in a product that you would otherwise greatly enjoy because of some nonsense that happened a long time ago. It's like deciding not to each French food because you don't agree with their politics. If you just don't like the knife, that's another story.

My 3 cents. And I definitely would take a look at a Spyderco/Strider collaboration, as I always consider any new Spyderco knife that comes out.

[Jordan]

That having been said, if anyone is not a nice guy (within reason) and designs a great knife, I will buy it. The guy is not coming to live at my house, just his knife design.

...

As a knife guy it just seems silly to no partake in a product that you would otherwise greatly enjoy because of some nonsense that happened a long time ago. It's like deciding not to each French food because you don't agree with their politics. If you just don't like the knife, that's another story.

My 3 cents. And I definitely would take a look at a Spyderco/Strider collaboration, as I always consider any new Spyderco knife that comes out.

I'm sorry... just to clarify, are you under the impression that some people dislike that company, it's employees, and it's leadership because they aren't nice guys? Or because of something that happened "a long time ago"? I assure you, nobody cares whether they are nice guys. I would never tell you where to spend your money, you earned it after all :) . Aside from the fact that I personally find Strider products to be overpriced and poorly designed (almost as though they were designed by someone who has never had to use a knife in the field... say, someone who got chaptered out of the Army in less than a year, stole a car, and spent a few years in prison before starting a knife company), I believe that the owners have no integrity. If you are willing to overlook that because you greatly enjoy Strider knives... more power to you. There is no deficit of knife companies that are run by good people who supply a great product. Sal & Crew, Ernie Emerson, Les De Asis, et cetera. I will spend my money with them.

[MikeZ]

(almost as though they were designed by someone who has never had to use a knife in the field... say, someone who got chaptered out of the Army in less than a year, stole a car, and spent a few years in prison before starting a knife company)

Yes. And if Sal was never a Navy Seal and just got out of prison, I'd still buy a military. And if Chris Reeve was never a Marine and just got locked up I'd still own a Sebenza.

If you don't care for the Strider design, I'd say definitely don't buy it folks! If you're curious and want to own one, you may find that you like it even more than you'd hoped.

Yes, they definitely are pricey, but you'll have it for the rest of your life.

[Blerv]

Why do people keep talking about thread closure? :confused:

There are obvious ways a thread gets closed and unless I'm missing some of them in this thread it looks safe. Discussion isn't a bad thing...just say things like "I don't prefer ____ because of personal preferences" instead of "I hate ____ because their knives are stupid and I hear ____ is a terrorist!"

Basically type with fingers instead of knuckles :) .

[unit]

Yes, they definitely are pricey, but you'll have it for the rest of your life.

Mine lasted about a week before I gave up on trying to like it. I am glad the "for life" thing is not mandatory!

[Jordan]

Yes. And if Sal was never a Navy Seal and just got out of prison, I'd still buy a military. And if Chris Reeve was never a Marine and just got locked up I'd still own a Sebenza.

If you don't care for the Strider design, I'd say definitely don't buy it folks! If you're curious and want to own one, you may find that you like it even more than you'd hoped.

Yes, they definitely are pricey, but you'll have it for the rest of your life.

You would appear to have misunderstood me. The problem is in the dishonesty. Sal Glesser doesn't claim to be anything he's not. Neither does Chris Reeve. Certainly, neither of them have had to be ordered by a judge to STOP claiming that they were something that they weren't for financial gain. That is neither here nor there though.

I don't care for the Strider design. I am in the Army... some soldiers are easily manipulated into buying anything with tiger stripe paint on it. I've handled Striders, and even if I had no strong feelings about the management of the company, I wouldn't want one. I ESPECIALLY wouldn't pay what they ask. I'm fairly certain I could sharpen a leaf spring from a truck to a better edge than those things get. What's more, the claim that they don't break is false. I have nothing but anecdotal evidence in that regard, so feel free to disregard. But, I've seen it happen. They don't last a lifetime. Perhaps you could explain it to me Mike... discounting all non performance criteria, what am I supposed to like about these knives? They aren't exactly unique designs... by which I mean that aesthetically they resemble many other knives and their locking mechanisms are popular with other companies. They are too thick to cut with, too thin to pry anything serious with (the one that I saw break was being used to pry a crate open). They cost a lot... and this is coming from someone who spends a considerable amount of money on knives. What's to be curious about? You clearly have more experience with them than I do, perhaps there is something I've missed.

[demtek9]

I'll weigh in before this thread closes shop (if it does).

First of all, some of the most popular Zero Tolerance knives are Strider collaborations with Ken Onion. I don't care for the recurve on those models because they're a pain to sharpen using stones.

The SNG is a classic knife design, IMO. I carry a Strider PT almost always because I like a smaller knife for everyday use. It's as sharp as a razor and incredibly ergonomic.

Sal is a gentleman's gentleman and a great knife designer. I have knives from other designers and I'm not sure if they're nice guys or not, and I don't care much, though I appreciate that Sal is. I get a nice feeling from the Spyderco company. That having been said, if anyone is not a nice guy (within reason) and designs a great knife, I will buy it. The guy is not coming to live at my house, just his knife design.

I have had brand new Strider's that have come to me with a minor problem, but I've sent them back and, no questions asked, they are fixed and returned promptly. I've never needed to return a knife a second time. I have also had a few Spyderco's go back to the shop and come back home with prompt service and no questions asked. Quality customer service like that trumps the quality control issue for me. I KNOW I'm going to wind up with a perfect knife in the end for my hard earned cash.

As a knife guy it just seems silly to no partake in a product that you would otherwise greatly enjoy because of some nonsense that happened a long time ago. It's like deciding not to each French food because you don't agree with their politics. If you just don't like the knife, that's another story.

My 3 cents. And I definitely would take a look at a Spyderco/Strider collaboration, as I always consider any new Spyderco knife that comes out.

I see it the same way. I like the design and feel of the SnG and I don't care who designed it. The Strider crew has been nothing but nice to me.

[MikeZ]

Why do people keep talking about thread closure? :confused:

There are obvious ways a thread gets closed and unless I'm missing some of them in this thread it looks safe. Discussion isn't a bad thing...just say things like "I don't prefer ____ because of personal preferences" instead of "I hate ____ because their knives are stupid and I hear ____ is a terrorist!"

Basically type with fingers instead of knuckles :) .

I think some of the posts fall into the "___ is a terrorist!" kind of category in that they are personal attacks on the knife maker based on things that happened in his past rather than concentrating solely on his record as a knife maker. After all, you buy the knife, not the guy's whole life story. I'd owned a bunch of Spyderco's before I even knew Sal's name.

Of course I agree with all you said about personal preferences and I understand that there are people out there who have had problems with the knives themselves as far as quality control. If you don't like the look or the feel of a knife, definitely don't buy it, no matter who makes it!

I'm just saying that I very much enjoy the designs and have had two issues with lockup that have been fixed immediately without question. I think others will have a similar experience if they care to try them. The problem with many Strider's appears to be that they are not checked as well as they could be before leaving the factory (quality control). If you send it back to the factory, they will make it perfect (customer service/warranty). If, over time and use, you have trouble with lockup, as ALL frame lock designs may have over time, they will fix it yet again (customer service/warranty again).

I've had at least one knife from every major company that I own go back for one reason or another. Emerson's are another company known for inherent pivot trouble, but they're great knifes and those problems can be worked through and are worth it in the end.

As a knife guy, I had to own a Strider. Once I did I had to own more. I own way more Spyderco's because they offer up many more knife designs and their price point is way closer to what I can spend on my habit. But I wouldn't dissuade anyone inclined to give a Strider a try. In fact I would encourage it! The fact that a knife maker was or wasn't an army Ranger, etc. has no real bearing on their value as a knife maker. Judge the knife, not the man.

If you get one and have a problem, send it back and still have a problem, then you've got your answer and they can be easily sold on the secondary market as they hold their values well.

I'd say if you're in the market, take a look at some YouTube reviews. They're a great resource and provide some unbiased insight.

[Jordan]

Once again, the question isn't whether or not the man was an Army Ranger. He wasn't, public record. It's not a personal attack, it's the truth. I am also not an Army Ranger. That isn't me insulting myself... that's just the way it is. Being an Army Ranger is not a prerequisite to designing good knives. Being in the military isn't a prerequisite to designing good knives. Being dishonest about one's military service IS, however, a guarantee that I won't give you any money. That is why I will never, ever, buy a Strider knife. Wouldn't matter if they cut like lightsabers and cost less than bubblegum. The fact that they don't appeal to me is irrelevant... to me... cause I take that sort of thing seriously. You can convince yourself that having the knife is worth supporting the man, fair enough. I can't separate the two. Perhaps that makes me close minded. On the other hand... I feel good about every knife I buy. It makes me happy to know that I have received a quality product from a respectable company. Seeing as I am very into being happy, I'll keep doing that :p .

I am still perplexed by the desire to own a Strider. You say you are a knife guy and therefore felt obligated to own one Mike. I suppose I am also a knife guy... I spend a lot of money buying knives, frequently find uses for knives, and spend a lot of time talking about knives, anyway. But I've never considered that a good reason to support this company or that. For me, I see a knife that I like and I buy it. I don't feel compelled to own a knife from every high end knife company simply for the sake of ownership.

[The Deacon]

Mike, I'd agree with you except for one thing, while somebody's past is, for the most part, nobody's business and irrelevant to purchase decisions, there are exceptions. Just as some folks, on principle, won't buy knives made in China, or buy from companies who steal the intellectual property of other companies, there are folks who would not voluntarily purchase anything from a company which , for a long time, based their advertising on the "stolen valor" claims of its owner. In each case there are folks who care a lot, and others who could care less.

Making people aware of something like that is not "bashing" the company, or its products, it's simply allowing folks to make an informed decision.

[MikeZ]

You would appear to have misunderstood me. The problem is in the dishonesty. Sal Glesser doesn't claim to be anything he's not. Neither does Chris Reeve. Certainly, neither of them have had to be ordered by a judge to STOP claiming that they were something that they weren't for financial gain. That is neither here nor there though.

No, I don't think I misunderstood you, although I wasn't replying directly to you. Just in a general way. I do understand that it is about the dishonesty to you. I appreciate that that was disingenuous and was most certainly aimed at adding some imagined clout to his company in the beginning. I'm just saying I'm willing to overlook that because in the end the guy became a great knife designer, even if was never a great Ranger, or even one at all! I don't think being in the military necessarily makes you able to design a great knife. And certainly not able to execute that design.

I do also appreciate that Sal and Chris Reeve are stand up guys and gentlemen and didn't make any false claims regarding their pre-knifemaker days. I also don't think anyone needs to be in SOCOM to make a great tactical knife. I think Sal and Chris prove this as well. And so does Strider!

I don't care for the Strider design. I am in the Army... some soldiers are easily manipulated into buying anything with tiger stripe paint on it. I've handled Striders, and even if I had no strong feelings about the management of the company, I wouldn't want one. I ESPECIALLY wouldn't pay what they ask. I'm fairly certain I could sharpen a leaf spring from a truck to a better edge than those things get. What's more, the claim that they don't break is false. I have nothing but anecdotal evidence in that regard, so feel free to disregard. But, I've seen it happen. They don't last a lifetime.

First of all, thank you for your service! I truly appreciate that and it means way more to me than any knife.

Back to the discussion... If you "don't care for the Strider design" you don't need to go any further than that. It's not for you. There are plenty of knives I dislike. They're not for me. You might like some of the ones I dislike. I'm also pretty sure we could find some knives we both like quite a bit.

I just recently watched a great documentary about the war in Afghanistan and saw some incredibly heroic troops doing their thing. One of them was flicking a SOG Trident with tiger stripes at one point. There was also reference made to Gerber. I don't particularly care for the tiger stripes myself. None of my knives have them. That's just aesthetics to me. I don't think anyone in a combat situation is going to pull out their knife and having someone mistake it for a tiger. LOL! I would guess that camo knifes and/or black blades to stop glare may have their place. But I'm not in the military, so I defer to you on those specific issues.

When you get that leaf spring as sharp as my SNG let me know. Then fashion it into a folding knife with a solid lockup and great ergonomics and let me see some pics. I may make you an offer. LOL! Now that would be unique.

Perhaps you could explain it to me Mike... discounting all non performance criteria, what am I supposed to like about these knives? They aren't exactly unique designs... by which I mean that aesthetically they resemble many other knives and their locking mechanisms are popular with other companies. They are too thick to cut with, too thin to pry anything serious with (the one that I saw break was being used to pry a crate open). They cost a lot... and this is coming from someone who spends a considerable amount of money on knives. What's to be curious about? You clearly have more experience with them than I do, perhaps there is something I've missed.

LOL! I don't think any knife should be liked or disliked outside of performance criteria. That includes ergonomics. I don't think that prying open a crate is the proper use for a folding knife. I would say that's not hard use, that's just plain abuse. But if I HAD to open a crate and that's all I had, you'd have to give it a try. As many people say, a folding knife is "already broken." But as far as hard use, there are many videos of extreme testing. I believe they're very strong knives. I don't think they're necessarily the best pry bars or hammers. Pry bars and hammers are probably better pry bars and hammers.

I do believe they are unique in their execution of the frame lock, use of the bull pivot and G10 scale with a Ti locking slab, as well as the lockbar stabilizer. I think that combination of things makes these knives pretty innovative. There are other companies that are doing that now, or adding some of those features now. Some of the knives that are doing it are doing so in collaboration with Strider. As far as how they look, I think they look pretty unique. But that's just my opinion and neither here nor there as far as performance.

If you don't care for the thickness of the blade stock, I agree that depending on what you're cutting blade stock will make a difference. I use a PT for many everyday tasks. The blade stock is thinner than the SNF or SMF. I find that it cuts very well and is easy to maintain.

As far as cost goes, as far as I've heard, being in the military is not a very high paying job. I could see buying any quality knife to take with you on deployment as possibly being a hardship. That's unfortunate and I understand anyone who doesn't care for the price. I don't care for it either, but it is what it is. That will keep many people from owning a Strider, a Hinderer, a Chris Reeve, etc. Price point is definitely a concern. And it seems unfortunate and ironic that any "tactical" knife is priced in a way that seems to be restrictive to a troop on the ground.

That having been said, I've heard from military guys that most of what they're doing is opening up stuff like packaging and MREs and using a folding knife in much the same way as a plain old citizen would. I would think the rifle is for defense, the pistol backs that up and a large fixed blade is a last ditch resource as far as fighting. Untrue?

To me tactical just means strong and easy to deploy one handed. I'm not looking to stab anyone with it or to open up crates. I could get by quite well with a Caly3 on a daily basis and did for a long time. I don't think most people really need anything more than that. I'm not trying to convince anyone to get a Strider. I'm just saying that if you want one, I personally find them to be excellent knives. Just one of the many voices in the wilderness adding my two cents for people to take or leave.

Thank you again for your service to our country.

Mike

[Jordan]

Well said, thank you.

I'll get back to you on that leaf spring... there may have been some hyperbole involved there :p .

Gerber and SOG have many products with NSN's. They are often issued by unit supply sergeants or available in post exchanges. Those facts combine to make them very common amongst my comrades. Your definition of "tactical" where it pertains to folding knives is very similar to my own. They tend to be used for very mundane tasks, just as you said. If the Army expected us to frequently engage in hand to hand combat... they wouldn't give us so many bullets and the vest wouldn't weigh so darn much :p . On a more trivial note... they don't actually give most of us lowly junior enlisted types pistols. In the Field Artillery anyway, unit MTOEs usually only allow an M9 for the Battery 1sgt and the Commander. I think the Marines and the Infantry give em' to SSGs and above. The only branch where EVERYONE gets a pistol (I think... and this is excepting special operations command) is the MP. You are not mistaken though, knives... especially folding knives... aren't really any soldiers first choice as a weapon.

On the other hand, the mundane tasks in the Army can be harder on gear than the average civilian tasks. As an example, support units tend to squirt about 3 gallons of silicon on every bolt in our vehicles. Which is great, cause antennas are much less likely to fall off of said vehicles when the bolts can't loosen themselves. On the other hand... when you have to replace one of those antennas... all that silicon has to be cut off. If you don't have a good sharp knife, that task will go from unpleasant to maddening in an instant. We use cardboard cartons when shipping stuff in conexs... it is extremely thick cardboard. Go after that with a cutting implement that causes a lot of drag and you can hurt yourself or someone else. In the incident I mentioned with the crate... there just wasn't much around to get the thing opened. I am inclined to agree with you there too... no folding knife is made for that. It wasn't a real heavy duty crate though... and a folding knife is what got it open. Just not the Strider. IIRC, it was that Gerber model with the cushioned grip. Now, that isn't because that Gerber was stronger than the Strider, it's because the person doing the prying was smarter :p , but still.

Um... what else... ah, tiger stripes. People in the military tend to be the target market for tacticool stuff. It's not because it's useful... just a natural phenomenon. You can throw some digicam on anything and I know some soldiers who'll buy it. While we don't get paid much... our living expenses are pretty low. The Army provides you with a place to live, food, medical care, etc. etc. The only things you HAVE to spend your check on are razors and haircuts, really :p . Plus, when deployed our pay increases substantially... hazard pay and no taxes. Soldiers can afford expensive knives, provided that we don't donate our entire check to the Barley industry or certain local establishments of ill repute :p ... anyway.

Anyway, once again, I'm glad you explained your point of view to me. I appreciate it greatly.

[MikeZ]

Mike, I'd agree with you except for one thing, while somebody's past is, for the most part, nobody's business and irrelevant to purchase decisions, there are exceptions. Just as some folks, on principle, won't buy knives made in China, or buy from companies who steal the intellectual property of other companies, there are folks who would not voluntarily purchase anything from a company which , for a long time, based their advertising on the "stolen valor" claims of its owner. In each case there are folks who care a lot, and others who could care less.

Making people aware of something like that is not "bashing" the company, or its products, it's simply allowing folks to make an informed decision.

Yes, I absolutely agree with all that you've said. I have no problem with people choosing not to purchase anything for any reason. I'm just trying to say that for those who are willing to overlook the politics of it and just look at the product itself, they should give it a try. I'm not trying to convince everyone to buy a Strider. Just the people who don't care about this drama and are looking for a really great knife.

I respect those who don't like to buy Chinese. I don't either. I don't like to buy anything not made in the USA. But I overlook that from time to time when I can't overlook the quality of what I'm getting and I can't get it made here. In those cases I do buy products made in China, or Taiwan, or Japan. And I've been VERY happy with many of those products.

Sometimes and SOB makes a great thing too. If I really like it, I may buy it. That's just me.

[MikeZ]

Well said, thank you.

Thank you Jordan. It's great to be able to have a discussion about such a volatile issue and come to an understanding. That's why this is a great forum.

Regard to the great Lone Star state!

Mike

[Jordan]

Thank you Jordan. It's great to be able to have a discussion about such a volatile issue and come to an understanding. That's why this is a great forum.

Regard to the great Lone Star state!

Mike

Reasonable people can discuss any topic without offending each other, I think. This place is certainly full of reasonable people, probably why I've hung around these past few years, :) .

[Halfneck]

Strider Knives Inc. topics tend to polarize people to extremes. Mick Strider made mistakes in his past & his outspoken nature tends to tick people off. Due to the controversy surrounding Strider Knives Inc. I cannot see Spyderco getting involved with them. Not a representative of either company, and these thoughts are just my opinions.

All that aside they make some nice knives in my opinion. Some of their custom designs are really interesting in the materials they use. I use to own a SnG & a EB-LT. Currently I only own 2. The MV as it reminds me of the reverse grip designed knives from REKAT. My GB was a 40th birthday present from the wife. It is like a Emerson CQC-7 Tanto on steroids. Even as big as it is it feels good in my hands. I'd of loved to have had it when I was in the Army. Would not mind picking up a PT with a stonewash finish sometime down the road when finances allow.