Do You Worry About "Legal" Blade Length??

[SecSpyral]

nope. could care less. I don't have anything over 4" that I carry daily anyway

[ICSK]

I live in CA -- no blade length limit. But I also live in Los Angeles -- blade length limit.

That's partially correct but it depends on what the officers in your area are trained to tell you. I've had officers tell me that I'm allowed to bring a fixed blade that's 3" at uni. (definitely a no-no as PC 626.10 clearly states that fixed blades > 2.5" are forbidden. I submitted an informal complaint and told the officer that the law clearly states that wasn't allowed.)



My answer is yes and no, oddly enough. The reason for this is that California's laws are incredibly vague (that's putting it very lightly). Here are all the laws that I know of that apply to knife carry in CA and Los Angeles. Note: This is a rough paraphrase of SOME (it's less than half) of the laws in CA along with my commentary. It is not legal advice.

California State Laws
PC 653k: This law defines legal/illegal knives. The most relevant part of this law states that "Switchblade knife" does not include knives that open with 1 hand utilizing thumb pressure and has a mechanism to overcome the opening of blade (in this case the detent of the knife)

12020 (A.4) Practically forbids knives or other instruments capable of ready use as stabbing weapon. I ABSOLUTELY hate this law. While folding knives aren't covered under this law, it means that a pen, screwdriver, or anything I could theoretically stab someone with illegal. It's ridiculous how bad the knife and gun laws are here in CA.

171.b forbids from any local public building or meeting any deadly weapon described in 653k or 12020, knife w/ blade > 4", the blade of which is fixed or capable of being fixed in an unguarded position by the use of one or two hands. Of course, "local public building" has a plethora of meanings later defined in 171.b(c).

LA Municipal Code
55.10 No person shall wear/carry in plain view a knife > 3"

On top of that, there's also city/county regulations along with regulations in the places I'm visiting (ie I couldn't bring an EDC to Disneyland). However, this applies to all states as far as I know, so this argument is null.

Sorry for the rant guys. In short, I'm worried that all cops are wrongly being taught that there is a 3" blade limit but I'm relieved that the (very vague) laws are on my side

Edit: forgot to mention that I carry a short summary of all these laws in my wallet. I'm far too paranoid sometimes!

[jezabel]

Blade length is pretty easy to abide by over here (NZ) as at the moment it's anything less than 4 inches, and honestly I have no need to carry anything bigger.
I'll enjoy this while I can as I know the knife laws will change here sooner or later ( hopefully later ).

Jez

[jackknifeh]

The first time I was going to buy a knife with a 4" blade I called the local sherrif's office and talked to two cops neither of which even knew what was an illegal length. They told me that if I didn't go around poking people with the knife they didn't worry about people and their knives. This is a small town where a lot of hunting goes on so I'm sure that's not the attitude everywhere of course. I just thought it was funny that they didn't even know what an illegal length was.

Jack

[dj moonbat]

My answer is yes and no, oddly enough. The reason for this is that California's laws are incredibly vague (that's putting it very lightly). (insert summary of statutes/ordinances...)

Yes, all that's true. But I know that if I'm carrying a folder under 3" in length, that will not add up to big trouble, unless I am simultaneously committing some other offense.

There is no benefit conferred upon me by a folder over 3" in length that could possibly compensate me for the downside risk of getting my *** handed to me by the LAPD, however remote that risk might be.

[kawr]

:spyder: Here in Wisco there's no length statute, but we empower the LEO's to confiscate anything they want. Don't be a jerk and you won't get a knifectomy. :spyder:

This is so stupid. Someone is following the law and yet STILL gets their personal belongings stolen by a cop just because they can? You shouldnt have to frickin brown nose every cop you meet to keep your belonging. I get pulled over ALOT by the cops for no real reason other than the fact that I drive a car that is popular with stupid punk ricers (Subaru STi) and they always give me a hard time thinking I'm some punk college kid looking for trouble. I'm always respectful and polite and yet they must get pleasure out of abusing their authority. I've never broken the law or even gotten a speeding ticket and yet I still get regularily pulled over just so that they can check to see if I dont have any illegal mods on my car which is completely stock. Fact of the matter is no matter what your state knife laws are, cops do whatever they feel like so carry what you want and just stay out of trouble and look as innocent/clean as possible. Funny thing is I've never gotten pulled over when I visit my folks up in Kenosha, WI. Must be an Illinois cop thing :p .

[Farmer Brown]

Whenever at work, I use something Swiss with a Cross on it - people don't mind it having a somewhat long blade.

[BuffaloBill]

i've been told by a federal law enforcement officer (who used to reside and work in some form of NJ Law enforcement) on another forum that NJ has a 3" limit. I carry my D2 para and ZDP Caly. which are both just slightly over 3". I assume that the small amount they are over 3" i shouldnt have to much trouble should I be searched or what have you.

Anything approaching 3.5 i usually won't carry or even consider buying. I was pulled over about 5 yrs ago (for speeding) while carrying a 4" CRKT. thankfully i wasnt searched. this was before i paid close attention to knife laws and I havent carried it since.

I still try to keep it to around 3" or less. which i guess is good cause otherwise i'd have too many knives.

NJ knife laws are pretty vague as far as length goes.

[MCM]

no

[ghostrider]

I'm from Michigan where blade length is not a problem.

I read posts and threads by members here and on BF about carrying a knife

with the "legal" blade length. If you look presentable and dont do anything

stupid(not smart) to draw attention to yourself does is really matter if you

carry a blade 1/4 to 1/2 longer than is "legal". I think its much more important

to be smart about the way you handle the knife once its out of your pocket

than worry about being "legal".

I usually carry a knife the size of a Millie,bigger sometimes, but I also carry an

se Dfly too.

Do you worry about being "legal" as long as you're smart about what you

do with your knife when its out of your pocket?

I also live in Michigan, and while it's true that there is no actual blade length limit for the state (unless of course you intend to, "use unlawfully against another person". Yeah, I know), there are still different localities that are allowed to pass any restrictions they feel necessary. If it's legal in your locality that's fine, but traveling from one city to the next can prove problematic, and I wouldn't want a weapons charge even if it is a misdemeanor.

Furthermore, be aware that carrying a concealed weapon is a five-year felony in Michigan, and individual officers only know what their bosses tell them. Don't be surprised to run into an officer who will cite you for having a illegal knife (the prosecutor will figure out later what to charge you with). While it's possible you may beat the charge, it can be a costly fight.


That said, in my jurisdiction there is no blade length limit, or any other restrictions on knives that do not go beyond state law. Within my locality I don't worry so much about it, but when I travel I am more cautious.

[ghostrider]

I do not worry about it, but I also do not carry knives of length that exceed the law.

I can not speak for all LEOs, but I think the length law is just one of the many tools at their disposal. If you are in the wrong with any knife, you have problems...and if you are doing nothing wrong, there is little reason to initiate a search.

unit,

If your an LEO, first, thank you for your service. Second, I'm sure that your well aware (as are most LEO and criminal lawyers I'm sure) that while there is, "little reason to initiate a search" if your doing nothing wrong, that does not insure that one is not conducted. Good, bad, or indifferent, it is what it is.

[dj moonbat]

I guess I'll be the one to cop to the fact that I have occasionally broken certain laws -- sometimes knowingly, other times ignorantly. In particular, I have broken certain laws concerning intoxication. If I should ever, ever find myself in a serious conversation with LEOs, for any legal violation, I want my EDC blade to be scrupulously non-menacing. Seriously, it's nice to have a knife around, but it's not worth adding a weapons charge to an otherwise nondescript "drunk at the park" or what-have-you.

[ghostrider]

Ive seen this posted on BF a few times with a little different wording.

If a leo asks you are carrying a weapon say no . I have a knife in my pocket

that I use as a tool.

When you say you have a weapon you have get out of the car, be searched.

You open up can of worms that doesn't have to be opened. :eek:

If you live in Michigan, and you tell the officer you have a weapon in the car, and it's anything other than the pistol you carry under your CPL, you get a five year vacation. If you tell the officer you have a knife, he may or may not remember that you said "No" about the "weapon" question.

Want to know what to say to the officer on the side of the road? Ask the lawyer who will be defending you.

[spinynorman]

What's the best/most accurate information source to use to find out what the legal length is where you live?
Is there a website, or do you just "google" it and see what pops up??

[dj moonbat]

What's the best/most accurate information source to use to find out what the legal length is where you live?
Is there a website, or do you just "google" it and see what pops up??

The most accurate information is your state's statutes, and your county's/city's local ordinances. Unfortunately, as documented in this thread, these are not really the "best" information, because of vagaries and ambiguities, plus the real-world way that LEOs are trained to enforce the statutes/ordinances.

Bottom line: it's a pyrrhic victory to convince a court that your knife is legal. Once it's gotten that far, you've already lost in any meaningful sense.

[ghostrider]

The most accurate information is your state's statutes, and your county's/city's local ordinances. Unfortunately, as documented in this thread, these are not really the "best" information, because of vagaries and ambiguities, plus the real-world way that LEOs are trained to enforce the statutes/ordinances.

Bottom line: it's a pyrrhic victory to convince a court that your knife is legal. Once it's gotten that far, you've already lost in any meaningful sense.

That pretty much sums it up. I know people here who will carry a gun, but won't carry a knife because it's too easy to get into trouble with a knife.

[[ITA]Nemo]

Here in Italy the situation is complicated due unwritten laws... I try to clear my concept:

In the past many rules were written and canceled after a while

1) Maximum blade lenght equal to four fingers of the hand (aprox. 7cm (2.75")) but the problem were the size of the policemen's hands :)
2) So the rule became max 5cm (~2" like max blade lenght in Chicago)
3) Again the rule became max 5cm but without tip
4) Now the rule is "justified reason concept" that means everything and nothing at all...
because potentially any blade size is not legal (or legal). The reason (you give to the policeman during a police verification)) for carrying your knife makes it legal or not.
Said that, if you have a good "excuse" you can carry a small knife like (chicago, or mini victorinox and so on...) but knife longer than 3" are really difficult to justify.

You can transport long knives closed in a box or however not ready to use!

You cannot carry/transport/use any kind of knife at public place where there is a concert or public demonstration or any event that recalls many people.

Any knife with the edge on both side (dagger) is not legal despite his lenght.
Any auto knife is not legal.

Sometimes policemen consider knives with lock system not legal (but this is not a law).

In any case a good reason for a policeman could be wrong for another, so in Italy anyone carries his EDC at own risk.

I'm used to carry my Walker ZDP or Chicago or U2 being prudent. I leave any blade at home when I go to a concert or when I use my motorbike (here in Italy there are many prejudices around the bikers).

I have a knife (old Tramontina knife) in my car, too; but it is hidden and not ready to use.

Ciao

Nemo

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friends,

Interesting topic. The short answer for me is no, I do not concern myself with whether or not the blade length is legal. My rationale follows...

First, the law in WV states that unless otherwise illegal (balisong, switchblade, dagger, etc.) any knife with a blade length under 3.5", fixed or folding, is legal for concealed carry by adults. Anything over 3.5" must be carried unconcealed, but there is no absolute maximum blade length. As the law is written I can legally carry a machete around so long as it remains in plain sight and I don't threaten anyone with it or cause a breach of the peace.

As I understand how it applies to concealed handguns, if any part of the firearm is visible it is considered unconcealed; juxtaposing this to knives, if even the pocket clip is visible, the knife is unconcealed.

Based on the fact that the pocket clip on any knife that I carry is visible I don't get concerned about what I carry.

An additional factor is that a few years back I decided to try an experiment - I telephoned no less than a dozen police stations (local, county, and state) in WV and request clarification of the law as it applies to concealed carry of knives. It was one of the most entertaining afternoons I have spent on the phone in a long time - not one station could give me the correct answer. I got everything ranging from "no limit" to "6 inches on a fixed blade, 4 inches on a folder" to "3 inches". None of them had any idea what the law actually said.

I see it like this - unless I am doing something to attract the undue attention of law enforcement there is a low probability that any knife that I am in possession of will be confiscated. Assuming that an LEO for whatever reason actually takes me to task because he/she sees the pocket clip and identifies the item as a knife, then I'm still legal - if they saw it, it wasn't concealed.

It also helps that most of the local law enforcement officers are longtime friends of mine. :D

If I am traveling outside of WV I pay somewhat closer attention to blade length, and I generally fall back on just carrying my Glock 19 with my permit since the knife laws of some of our surrounding states are vague at best.

--------
Hannibal

[ghostrider]

My Dear Friends,

Interesting topic. The short answer for me is no, I do not concern myself with whether or not the blade length is legal. My rationale follows...

First, the law in WV states that unless otherwise illegal (balisong, switchblade, dagger, etc.) any knife with a blade length under 3.5", fixed or folding, is legal for concealed carry by adults. Anything over 3.5" must be carried unconcealed, but there is no absolute maximum blade length. As the law is written I can legally carry a machete around so long as it remains in plain sight and I don't threaten anyone with it or cause a breach of the peace.

As I understand how it applies to concealed handguns, if any part of the firearm is visible it is considered unconcealed; juxtaposing this to knives, if even the pocket clip is visible, the knife is unconcealed.

Based on the fact that the pocket clip on any knife that I carry is visible I don't get concerned about what I carry.

An additional factor is that a few years back I decided to try an experiment - I telephoned no less than a dozen police stations (local, county, and state) in WV and request clarification of the law as it applies to concealed carry of knives. It was one of the most entertaining afternoons I have spent on the phone in a long time - not one station could give me the correct answer. I got everything ranging from "no limit" to "6 inches on a fixed blade, 4 inches on a folder" to "3 inches". None of them had any idea what the law actually said.

I see it like this - unless I am doing something to attract the undue attention of law enforcement there is a low probability that any knife that I am in possession of will be confiscated. Assuming that an LEO for whatever reason actually takes me to task because he/she sees the pocket clip and identifies the item as a knife, then I'm still legal - if they saw it, it wasn't concealed.

It also helps that most of the local law enforcement officers are longtime friends of mine. :D

If I am traveling outside of WV I pay somewhat closer attention to blade length, and I generally fall back on just carrying my Glock 19 with my permit since the knife laws of some of our surrounding states are vague at best.

--------
Hannibal

That sir, is a **** fine weapon. :D

ETA: people should be aware that the good doctor's references to the visibility of open carry of a handgun apply to his home state (and maybe others he travels to). If your going to rely on OC of the knife to keep you out of trouble, I strongly recommend studying the precedence setting case law applicable to where you are. Understand, that some prosecutors are more interested on staying elected, than your rights under the law. Don't believe something just because you heard it from someone you trust. Verify it through the necessary research.

To use Doc's open carried handgun example. There is a prosecutor who pressed charges because the suspect was carrying the gun inside the waistband. The top part of the gun was clearly visible, but the rest was in the pants, so they claimed that it did not qualify as "open carry" and filed charges for CCW (in Michigan, that means Carrying a Concealed Weapon, and is a five-year felony). In the end, he plead down to a lesser charge to avoid the felony, and ended up in debt to the lawyer. OTOH, we've heard on these boards where some officers have said that the knife clipped to the pocket was not "concealed" like it should have been.


"Let's be careful out there."

[spyderHS08]

here in KS its 4 in, so I dont have much to worry about. Nor do I need any more than 4 inches of blade