12-20-2012 poll

[Gibsoniam]

Mmm. Peanut butter and jelly.

[Sequimite]

he tries to get legislation passed in congress that will make the companies he is part owner in richer.

Putting aside for the moment the fact that in my thirty years as a CPA and CFO I didn't know any prominent businessmen who weren't trying to do this, what's the problem?

Let's say I believe that everyone would be better off with a quality knife. I start a company to build quality knives and contribute to lobbying organizations which try to ease knife restrictions. Am I in some moral dilemma because the success of the lobbying would also help my business? Certainly not.

[tonydahose]

Mmm. Peanut butter and jelly.

i dont think this has gotten to the PBJs and i doubt it will, at most it would be an agree to disagree thing.

the problem is he is making money from our taxes. he did get a complete pass in the media over this unlike the gas companies having to go before congress to explain all the profits they were making. Al was mad that a congress woman had the gaul to ask him about legislation that he was trying to get passed that would make him, a partner in a company lots of money.

[Gibsoniam]

i dont think this has gotten to the PBJs and i doubt it will, at most it would be an agree to disagree thing.

agreed. Just trying to keep it light. :)

al gore is apparently a hypocrite, as he consumes fossil fuels personally at a very high rate. Jet setting in private jets, SUVs, etc. I won't mention his house, because that's a debunked claim.

[Sequimite]

the problem is he is making money from our taxes. he did get a complete pass in the media over this unlike the gas companies having to go before congress to explain all the profits they were making. Al was mad that a congress woman had the gaul to ask him about legislation that he was trying to get passed that would make him, a partner in a company lots of money.

You've changed the subject. If it's not a problem for someone who doesn't work for the government to pursue goals through both private enterprise and public policy, then what you left with - the ever popular media bias! Is the media coverage Gore's fault?

Gore's not a very likable guy and I can see getting annoyed with him, but that shouldn't interfere with a sober judgment on whether he is engaged in inappropriate behavior.

[The Mastiff]

Gore's not a very likable guy and I can see getting annoyed with him, but that shouldn't interfere with a sober judgment on whether he is engaged in inappropriate behavior.

Ok, in my sober opinion at the least he spreads lies and misinformation in his quest to get laws changed. Laws that would, coincidentialy benefit him.

[2cha]

Who's that trip trapping across my bridge.

[enduraguy]

It's all bull and we'll all be here on 12/31/12 to celebrate the new year. Time for the next group of entrepreneurs to think of the next ''big catastrophe'' scenario to make a few million off of.

[The Deacon]

From least to most contentious IMO:

there is a scientific consensus
the earth is in a warming trend
human activity is a major factor in the warming trend
the warming trend will be costly in lives and gold
there's something we can do to change the trend

In my view the first two are true, the third is extremely likely, the fourth is probable and the fifth is an open question

I agree there's a scientific consensus that the earth's climate is changing.

I agree the current, short term direction of that change is warming

I strongly disagree regarding human activity as a major factor. I would be surprised if our contribution was more than 5% and extremely surprised if it was more than 10%. Which is not to say I don't think the human race is racing toward disaster. It's only a matter of time before there are too many mouths competing for too little food.

I think climate change could either help, hurt, or be a wash. The question is whether more currently productive land and will be lost, or more currently non-productive land will be gained. No matter what, we will have bred our way to famine.

I'd suggest the only truly worthwhile things we could do would be extremely unpalatable. That's because the only worthwhile things involve population reduction, the more drastic the better. And that's not to say the climate would stop changing, only that such changes would be less important to a world with 75% fewer people.

[Sequimite]

That's because the only worthwhile things involve population reduction, the more drastic the better. And that's not to say the climate would stop changing, only that such changes would be less important to a world with 75% fewer people.

My beloved sister-in-law, has the same opinion. I confess I don't see the point in advocating for this. It could only happen through war or disaster that effectively reduces resources by over 75%. Perhaps in 2012 . . .

Even in China, with a semi-totalitarian government it's taken a number of decades just to stop the growth of population, much less decrease it. If you're going to engage in wishful thinking you might advocate for vast increases in productivity instead.

[The Deacon]

My beloved sister-in-law, has the same opinion. I confess I don't see the point in advocating for this. It could only happen through war or disaster that effectively reduces resources by over 75%. Perhaps in 2012 . . .

Even in China, with a semi-totalitarian government it's taken a number of decades just to stop the growth of population, much less decrease it. If you're going to engage in wishful thinking you might advocate for vast increases in productivity instead.

But that's sort of my point. Why should I inconvenience myself and/or live less comfortably, to allow those **** bent on overpopulating the earth to keep pumping out offspring a little bigger before the inevitable population crash.

Ever read any studies of animal populations in a fixed space? The earth is our fixed space.

[tonydahose]

You've changed the subject. If it's not a problem for someone who doesn't work for the government to pursue goals through both private enterprise and public policy, then what you left with - the ever popular media bias! Is the media coverage Gore's fault?

.

ok sorry if i got off the point. I don't like Al Gore because...another analogy warning :p ...he is like the kid crying wolf, whilst selling ant-wolf ointment and there might not be a wolf in existance.

everyone starts going nuts when they see a giant piece of ice break off of the the shelf in Antartica and talk about global warming but on the other side of the continent the ice is growing. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517035,00.html
i dont believe in global warming because of reports like this and the hacked scientist's emails didnt help either.

[Gibsoniam]

Nevermind.

Suffice it to say: I'm not convinced the earth can't sustain our population growth; and eugenics, genetics, fertility controls, etc are certainly out of the question as far as I'm concerned.

[Monocrom]

From least to most contentious IMO:

there is a scientific consensus
the earth is in a warming trend
human activity is a major factor in the warming trend
the warming trend will be costly in lives and gold
there's something we can do to change the trend

In my view the first two are true, the third is extremely likely, the fourth is probable and the fifth is an open question

Sorry, but you've been lied to.

There is no scientific consensus. But the main-stream media doesn't report that fact. If someone concentrates on the major newspapers and media outlets, yes; it does seem as though there is a consensus. Look deeper, you realize there's not. It's a hot-button issue in the scientific community. With both sides being equally split on the issue of global warming.

The Earth was in a warming trend. Now it seems to be shifting the other way. As mentioned earlier, I just went through one of the coldest, most snow-filled, Winters in recent memory. If global warming was real, then I should have no clue how my car handles during a blizzard. But I do! (She handles pretty well as a matter of fact.)

The Earth goes through cycles of hot and cold. That's why back during the 1970's, all of the current elder leaders of the Global Warming movement were screaming about the coming of the 2nd Ice-Age. Take a look at the books that they authored back then. It was all about the planet becoming abnormally cold. Now they're singing a different tune, and they hope that none of their critics will remember their earlier works.

Once again, blizzards still exist. Went through a handful of them this year. If global warming was real, we'd just have a ton of rainstorms instead. It would be too hot for snow. Good news! No lives will be lost due to it, because it doesn't exist. If one is afraid of being eaten by a pink tiger, the fear is irrational. But gold is a great investment. So is silver. Folks should include precious metals in their portfolios.

You're right that there's something we can do to change the trend . . . Stop believing in a giant myth being spread by those with an agenda. (See reference above regarding pink tigers. Once you stop believing in something that doesn't exist, Life becomes less stressful.)

[The Deacon]

Suffice it to say: I'm not convinced the earth can't sustain our population growth; and eugenics, genetics, fertility controls, etc are certainly out of the question as far as I'm concerned.

You don't have to be. Whatever happens will happen whether we believe it's going to happen or not. I could be wrong, you could be wrong, the 28% of the scientists who responded positively to that survey Sequimite mentioned could be wrong.

I do notice you edited the ten billion figure out of your post. Probably a good idea as we may pass that in a ten years or less, assuming UG99 or some other factor does not cause widespread famine before that.

As for global warming, if that's what was responsible for this winter here in Albany, bring it on! Record low snowfall, no ice storms, what's not to like. :D

Seriously, weather patterns are changing, but weather patterns have been changing since before dinosaurs walked the earth.

[The Mastiff]

The report of the himalayan glaciers melting by 2037, being reported as fact and repeated as canon is a perfect example of the whole AGW story.

It was even reported by governments, quoted by UN commissions, and on and on.

Wait. It turns out the guy that put it in the report and made it fact had no science to back it up. None whatsoever. He included it for drama.

AGW. For those addicted to drama.

The sad part is this stuff gets in the way of real science being done.

[2cha]

i dont think this has gotten to the PBJs and i doubt it will, at most it would be an agree to disagree thing.
.

It's gone way past PBJ when at least one respected forum member engaged in extremely partisan political badgering, and another slips in political potshots at the drop of a hat. The attacks aren't don't make me feel welcome. Another group I belong to has some a really great tradition that I'll paraphrase for application here--

:spyder: The only requirement for membership is a desire to acquire some of the coolest and "cutting edge" production knives in the world.

I've invested a ton of my time and money demonstrating my desire---buying knives and reading, reading, reading, and sharing whatever I've learned with others who come along. I've bought literally dozens of spydercos since first visiting this "place". I've earnestly read--even devoured--posts by almost all of the posters in this thread because your collective spyderco/knife knowledge and willingness to share it is truly remarkable--not to mention visiting the incredible websites of those who have them.

I just wish that the partisan political attacks would stop. They're disrespectful of a diverse membership. As a knife lover, I should have a right to feel comfortable reading everything posted on spyderco's dime. I shouldn't have to sit here struggling to, in the words of Archie Bunker, "stifle myself." I'm not complaining about people posting opinions, opinions don't require a response, I'm talking about direct or thinly veiled partisan political attacks. There are plenty of places on the net for that stuff, but there is only one spyderco forum.

[The Mastiff]

I just wish that the partisan political attacks would stop. They're disrespectful of a diverse membership. As a knife lover, I should have a right to feel comfortable reading everything posted on spyderco's dime. I shouldn't have to sit here struggling to, in the words of Archie Bunker, "stifle myself." I'm not complaining about people posting opinions, opinions don't require a response, I'm talking about direct or thinly veiled partisan political attacks. There are plenty of places on the net for that stuff, but there is only one spyderco forum.

I don't see any political parties mentioned anywhere in the thread, on any post. I agree with Tony that this group won't get too out of hand. There has been no profanity, name calling ( about each other) , or any of the other things that would be considered crossing the line.

I really don't see much wrong with expressing opinions when it's on topic. This group has been here for a long time and pretty much limits themselves. You won't see many melt downs around here.

No one likes every thread, or agrees with everything said, whether off topic, or spyderco knives. If it bothers you, there's the option to not open the thread, you could also place people on ignore, send them PM's or e-mails, or even turn it over to the mods to make a decision.

Getting offended when no one is attacking you strikes me as being a bit unnecessary when you can just either ignore someone, or ask them to knock off whatever is offending you. I know I would comply if asked by another forumite. .

[2cha]

1) just another fad that also happens to be promoted mainly by leftist groups.
2) They
3) What I do see is the left pushing the AGW theory for their own gains
4) the left seems to be trying to go on as if nothing has happened,
5) No. I mean the political left.
6) The same way the political left thinks they own
7) at the least he spreads lies and misinformation in his quest to get laws changed.

[The Mastiff]

1) just another fad that also happens to be promoted mainly by leftist groups.
2) They
3) What I do see is the left pushing the AGW theory for their own gains
4) the left seems to be trying to go on as if nothing has happened,
5) No. I mean the political left.
6) The same way the political left thinks they own
7) at the least he spreads lies and misinformation in his quest to get laws changed.

All very much true however. I don't see how this insults you. Are you ashamed they are doing this? Is it that you consider yourself a leftist?

Please help me understand how this is wrong or insulting to you?

I'm not one to intentionally go out of my way to insult forum members but this is about as much an insult directed towards you or anybody else as me stating todays price of gas at the BP down the road. Unfortunate, but still it's the way it is. Speaking in terms of left or right of the political spectrum isn't itself an insult. What they do are merely actions, again not an insult. It's like calling the act of playing soccer insulting. It makes no sense.

PC nonsense, but ok I'll stop. I'm not going to erase my old posts at this time as I don't believe they are anything but simple facts stated in a discussion about a topic in which the political element is very present and a basic part of the problem itself but I will refrain from posting any more about the political left in this thread.

BTW, how come you aren't offended by the remark about right wingers burying their heads in the sand?

If what the left does offends you to talk about it openly you might either move away from the left, or stop being so thin skinned.


Example of AGW scientist from the far left. People are too stupid. They need their bettors to save them Down with democracy! ( my take on articles meaning) http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/ ... ate-change

The left and womens issues: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/ ... palin.html

"They" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They

Al Gore and false data: http://www.noteviljustwrong.com/blog/ge ... of-al-gore

Example of left leaning media and global warming. Note: it has since been found out that they are financially tied to cap and trading to the tune of 30% of it's capitalized pension fund which makes their leftist lean pro AGW very suspicious to me. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colu ... rming.html

"Global warming, The lefts perfect storm" http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=30790

etc, etc.