Spyderco Forums

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:08 pm**

I'm pretty sure this is not limited to "brick & mortar" dealers... Sal said earlier that it was also most of the big online dealers asking for it too...

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:13 pm**

Found it.

sal wrote:Hi Northmanscall, Emjay,

Welcome to our forum.

Sure seems to be a lot of opinions on what we do, what we should do, what we shouldn't do. Some of you seem to trust that we thought all of that through and did what we felt what was the best thing to do for all concerned. We don't make "flip-of-the-coin" decisions. All decisions are very carefully discussed. We're not trying to rip anyone off.

Some seem to have complaints like $450 models. We make $20 models, we make $750 models. Those prices re based on the difficulty and cost of manufacture. We certainly don't expect everyone to be able to afford all of our models. We try to make something that will serve you well, you will like it and it will have good value and pleasure for you.

To say this is for Brick and Mortar, not so. Most of the requests and thank you's came from your favorite on line dealers. We don't give the big dealers big discounts and we monitor their advertising prices as well. It's a PITA,but it seems the world is full of cheaters and those that would try to take advantage. Those of you that get enjoyment from "shopping around', you are still welcome to do so.

It's hard to believe that this thread has gone to so many pages. I wonder how many read it all of the way through before expressing an opinion? We do read all of the thought shared. I imagine we'll see in time if our decision was a good one? We always extend our best effort to conduct our business in an honest, fair and proper manner for all. As mentioned, these are tough competitive times in the Blade industry.

Chinese makers are getting better and still have a 3rd world country monetary standard. They also counterfeit like crazy? We have to compete with all of this and we try our best to do so. Try to take step back an see a bigger picture.

sal

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:43 pm**

mattman wrote:I'm pretty sure this is not limited to "brick & mortar" dealers... Sal said earlier that it was also most of the big online dealers asking for it too...

Yup he did

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:11 pm**

There is no price fixing. Some people seem to be losing that fact in the discussion.

Companies can sell the product at whatever price they want. They just can't publicly advertise it. Early in this thread it was asserted that National Knives was performing some heroic act of kindness by informing we the consumers about this terrible increase. Nonsense. It was a smart business and marketing ploy bit the fact is, the could still sell you the knives are 40% if they really wanted to. I'm not knocking them at all. It was a smart move and some the sworn loyalty professed in this thread proves it. I'm just saying that I didn't take their "breaking news" as anything more than hype for sales.

You hear ads on the radio and such all the time wherein the announcer says "prices so low we're not allowed to mention them" or "our lawyers won't let us advertise these crazy los prices". It's the same thing. They can sell the product at whatever price they want, they just can't advertise it.

And if a dealer was selling at low prices, how fast do you think that word would get around even without them advertising it?

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:28 pm**

Eli Chaps wrote:
No, I don't think my measly purchases, or lack of, will have any impact but I feel good about my choices and that is enough for me.

This is what it's all about. If you are happy with your choices then that is all that matters.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:31 pm**

Eli Chaps wrote:There is no price fixing. Some people seem to be losing that fact in the discussion.

Companies can sell the product at whatever price they want. They just can't publicly advertise it.

Think of it as collusion amongst the largest knife sellers, through their influence over Spyderco, to remove price competition. They requested more guaranteed margin, and got it. They do not want to skirt this new MAP.

Regarding dealers not being held to the new MAP, it will be interesting to see if people do get a below MAP price by calling in, post such in the deals thread, and whether or not this information is used against the dealer offering a lower price.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:34 pm**

gaj999 wrote:
ross8425 wrote:Knives I buy from dealers, Amazon is not what I consider to be a knife dealer.
I'd bet money that Amazon is the biggest knife dealer in the world ...

I'm not complaining about Amazon, I'm complaining about Spyderco selling through Amazon. Whole different kettle of fish.

Spyderco should sell through whatever dealer can sell their products. If they choose to use Amazon then they do. Don't buy them off Amazon if it bothers you - I don't because I have read countless posts on here about fake knives from them.

I prefer to buy Spyderco knives from cutlery shoppe. Just as fast shipping , and I know it's real when I get it from Jeff.

And I wouldn't take that bet ,lol. Amazon is probably the biggest seller of *insert item*.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:39 pm**

If it looks like price fixing, smells like price fixing... Yeah right, I know rubbish when I hear it.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:16 pm**

Holzfaeller wrote:If it looks like price fixing, smells like price fixing... Yeah right, I know rubbish when I hear it.

Proof is in the pudding. MAP has been in place for a few years now and all online retailers had to sell at 40%. Of course it's not going to be called "price fixed" but it has the same effect online.

Guys Please do share with the forum on which online dealers you can email and make deals with lmao. I have tried last go round and if my dealers couldnt do it, Id be surprised if yours can. BTW, PM it because if Spyderco finds out, the ONLINE dealer will probably get dinged.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm**

sal wrote:MAP isn't price fixing, it's public advertising fixing.

Technically true. But the effect is exactly the same. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc. It's my real issue with MAP. The Amazon thing is mouse nuts. You've got the numbers to say whether the positives outweigh the negatives there and I don't. I'm sure they move a lot of product for you and as long as the volume of fakes is low enough, you're happy. Certainly they've got the best system going for selling goods, although I'd expect the larger online knife retailers to be not so far behind. I'd love to support a decent local knife shop, but I live in a town of only half a million, and we don't have one. Once I go online, they're all the same, so the only thing keeping me away from Amazon is the fear of fakes. But I know about the problem with fakes. Most people don't. Seems like that could hurt the brand unless the fakes are of high enough quality.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:31 pm**

sal wrote:... We could not do what we do with variety, steels, models, new product, etc. without the sales.

I understand. Variety is expensive. My personal take is that there's too much variety. It's overwhelming and unless you're made of money, which I'm not, most of it goes by the wayside. Some new stuff? Exciting, for sure. But enough is enough. Many new models strike me the way modern art does - different for the sake of being different. Most of them last for only a year or two before they're gone, so amortization of development cost has to be a large percentage of the selling price. That hurts the price/performance ratio. And one place where variety would be welcome, with stock thickness and grind thickness, there's virtually none. Thick stock and thick grinds don't improve the ratio, although I'm sure they improve warranty costs. MAP adds another straw to the load. The MAP increase another. I think the burden is getting too heavy for many and they feel bitter about it. Me, I'm mostly enjoying the show. It's interesting. I care enough to stay engaged but not so much that I get all bent out of shape over it. If a new knife blows my hair back, I'll be on it. If not, my hobby will be watching from the sidelines. It's almost as much fun as the old hobby. :)

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:43 pm**

Hi Gaj,

We don't expect every one of our customers to like all of our knives. We have a lot of different kinds of customers and their tastes and pocketbooks are all different. We make knives I'm not crazy about, but some of our customers are. Eric and I go back and forth on this every day.

sal

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:49 pm**

I see the Shaman for 149 on Amazon.

MAP is working well for all the people you intended to help.

Posted: **Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:07 pm**

willc wrote:I see the Shaman for 149 on Amazon.

MAP is working well for all the people you intended to help.

The $149 with prime has been out of stock since jan 1st...

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:02 am**

sal wrote:We don't expect every one of our customers to like all of our knives. We have a lot of different kinds of customers and their tastes and pocketbooks are all different. We make knives I'm not crazy about, but some of our customers are.

I understand completely. I'm pointing out that there are so many new models each year that most of them have been discoed before I ever see one in person. Part of that is me, as I've been disappointed ordering sight unseen so often, even when the knife looks perfect on paper, that I've gotten pretty resistant to the new stuff. Developing a lot of models that don't have staying power is costly. And it's not just the time and trouble, it bumps up fixed costs, too. Since I don't have insight into your business, I can't even guess at how much that affects the bottom line. I'm sure you're keeping it under control, but it sure looks wasteful from here.

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:16 am**

No matter your feelings on the price hike, I respect the heck out of Sal for staying in this thread, and talking rationally about the issues in play here. It's a smart business move, to work to explain a (seemingly unpopular) decision, treating critics who are acting like rational adults like rational adults, but many companies would have closed the thread and banned the complainers.

Unrelated:

sal wrote: We make knives I'm not crazy about, but some of our customers are.

I'm really, really curious which ones you're talking about. I totally get why you might not want to answer, but I think that'd be a fascinating list to read.

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:05 am**

Good post Nick.
And although some of us (myself included) may complain a little and slow down on purchases, still, we support Sal and Spyderco.
I know I do anyways. And I feel sure that many, many others do as well.

Btw, I had the same question for Sal. I find it very fascinating myself. Thanx for asking that :D

Posted: **Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:17 am**

Am grateful so many new steels and designs are available.
The other side of this would be begging for new steels & designs.
No complaints at all here. Things like MAP are not easy but important decisions
that must be made. Now, back to the latest & greatest............LOL LOL

Posted: **Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:47 am**

I gotta echo the appreciation for the civil discourse in the thread. Sal, your input has really hinted at the kinds of decision making that goes on at Spyderco, and it's intensely interesting.

Posted: **Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:18 pm**

I prefer to buy Spyderco knives from cutlery shoppe. Just as fast shipping , and I know it's real when I get it from Jeff.

And I wouldn't take that bet ,lol. Amazon is probably the biggest seller of *insert item*.[/quote]

I agree. The Cutlery Shop is my dealer of choice. More or less exclusively.

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