Straight Razor from Spyderco

[sal]

We're picking up the project again, after a multitude of setbacks. (factory expansion, etc.). We may be back to square one finding a maker. The maker that we received a very nice sample from, which was recommended by Doc Dan, may not be making razors any longer? I should know more in a day or so.

sal

[Doc Dan]

We're picking up the project again, after a multitude of setbacks. (factory expansion, etc.). We may be back to square one finding a maker. The maker that we received a very nice sample from, which was recommended by Doc Dan, may not be making razors any longer? I should know more in a day or so.

sal

I reached out. We'll see if he gets back to you. I know some others.

[sal]

Hi Doc,

My assistant, Wendy, chased him down and we've reconnected. He's interested in doing the project, so it looks like we're back on the road.

sal

[zhyla]

Curious what the steel ends up being for this. Common wisdom seems to be that fancier steels with lots of carbides are counterproductive for razors. I doubt Spyderco will put out razors in simple carbon steels though.

[sal]

We'll shoot for performance and ergonomics, function and value. New area for us. The first wagon going west has a lot to learn.

sal

[Doc Dan]

I am glad this is moving forward, finally! Everybody start saving your pennies.

[zhyla]

We'll shoot for performance and ergonomics, function and value. New area for us. The first wagon going west has a lot to learn.

sal

Sure… but there’s a long train of wagons ahead of you carrying razors made of plain carbon steel. Even $400 razors advertised as “carbon steel” — no grade or anything. I’m just curious if there’s something better that makes sense (AEB-L?).

[Doc Dan]

We'll shoot for performance and ergonomics, function and value. New area for us. The first wagon going west has a lot to learn.

sal

Sure… but there’s a long train of wagons ahead of you carrying razors made of plain carbon steel. Even $400 razors advertised as “carbon steel” — no grade or anything. I’m just curious if there’s something better that makes sense (AEB-L?).

There is a reason that razor makers use carbon steels of certain types run at 63-66 HRC. These take high hardness and give fine edges. Supersteels just don't hold up to the stresses on a straight razor. Human whiskers, make and female, is like cutting copper wire of the same thickness and shaving through hundreds or thousands per shave. There are some stainless steels out there, but they aren't as popular for various reasons.

[Synov]

We'll shoot for performance and ergonomics, function and value. New area for us. The first wagon going west has a lot to learn.

sal

Sure… but there’s a long train of wagons ahead of you carrying razors made of plain carbon steel. Even $400 razors advertised as “carbon steel” — no grade or anything. I’m just curious if there’s something better that makes sense (AEB-L?).

There is a reason that razor makers use carbon steels of certain types run at 63-66 HRC. These take high hardness and give fine edges. Supersteels just don't hold up to the stresses on a straight razor. Human whiskers, make and female, is like cutting copper wire of the same thickness and shaving through hundreds or thousands per shave. There are some stainless steels out there, but they aren't as popular for various reasons.

Most high alloy tool steels don't do well because the large carbide volume makes thin edges unstable, both through carbide tearout and increased propagation of cracks. However there are high alloy steels with low carbide volume like 3V and Z-Tuff with very high edge stability that may outperform carbon steels even in a straight razor.

If you want to play it safe with a low alloy steel, I would recommend 15N20, which Larrin has shown to have excellent edge stability.

[Sterling454]

First time poster -- Super excited to read Sal is picking up a straight razor project!! I would propose Sandvik 14C28N for the first foray and here's why:

1) As an ingot steel, it will help keep costs lower for a startup run and supports Spyderco's focus on value.
2) Per Dr. Thomas's research, it's one of the toughest stainless steels out there which will help support the thin geometry (and I presume hollow ground) razor profile.
3) Fine grain structure - sharpens easily, strops back really well, and takes an absolutely wicked edge.
4) Most existing straight edge razors are carbon steel but, personally, I would love something stainless. A polished or satin finish that will last for years in the wet/humid environment of a bathroom would be wonderful!
5) Although it doesn't offer super-steel levels of edge retention, straight razors are stropped frequently and otherwise don't go through a ton of abuse like a folding blade (unless you count dropping the razor in the sink when you nick yourself!)

AEB-L would be a good runner-up too!

[Doc Dan]

Common straight razor steels are things like 1.2210; O-1; C135; and the like. Some use 14C28N or AEB-L/13C26. I've seen other steels. There is a modified VG-10 that I've heard makes a great razor (I can't remember the exact designation). Whatever the steel, they have to be able to stand up to cutting copper wire-like whiskers, that will destroy a blade, and they have to be able to be run very hard, say 64-65, to withstand the abuse whiskers put on a blade. If any of you have ever had your wife use your razor to shave her legs and then unknowingly tried to use it after, you get an idea of edge damage. You can see it under a loop where they will be rolls or chips. Contrary to popular assumptions, stropping on a leather strop does not sharpen a razor's edge. It repairs the damage. Once the damage gets too bad, it must be re-sharpened on stones, diamond pasted balsa, lapping film, or something.

[sal]

Hi Sterling,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[Sterling454]

Thanx Sal! I gotta say, it's pretty mind-blowing for a company founder to personally welcome new posters to an official forum. Mad respect!

To respond to Doc Dan's comment about the abuse to an edge caused by facial hair, I recognize how harsh it can be but, what empirical data is there that shows 1.2210, O1, or C135 exceed the edge stability/retention of 14C28N? I'm still learning and very much claim the label of knife steel nerd so any light you can shine is appreciated!

[Doc Dan]

I won't say it exceeds them. They are good, though, and they are easier to repair than super steels.They are easier to work with, too. Spyderco can tell you super steels eat belts. Also, these steels are cheaper. There are makers out there that will make you a razor out of most anything, and some that make them from super steels. They aren't popular...at all. Some super steels will not take being ground as thin as a straight razor normally is.

[Doc Dan]

Here's some more eye candy while we are waiting.

See on the blade just before the tang there is a step? That area is a rear stabilizer. The blades are so thin that often there are one or two stabilizers to keep them stiff. Some razors, like my Colling, have a horizontal stabilizer (aka belly) on the blade just above the edge to keep the blade from flexing all over the place.

Razor: Thiers Issard with C135 steel run at 65 HRC. Blond horn scales.
Soap: George F. Trumper Almond
Brush: Simpson Chubby 1 in Sovereign Fibre
Shave: Perfect. Near BBS (baby butt smooth), no irritation, no bumps, no cuts, no weepers