K390 - Manix2 or Shaman?

[vivi]

I love K390 and I directionally agree, and yet comparatively a Cold Steel in AUS10A or 8CR vs a K390 blade with large hole in it are orders of magnitude different in the hard use category. Because the Cold Steel option is widely available and cost effective, it is an easy choice. I'm reminded of Sal's comment 'all good, just different' and that can certainly apply here. I wouldn't be opposed to any Golden K390 as a production option; actually I would love it. But I wouldn't beat on it, and would still worry about it being dropped off a ladder onto a concrete floor, even if it was a Shaman.

A Cold Steel what model though? I'm specifically referring to not "hard use" but more realistically "harder use" folders, that are currently a part of the Spydeco lineup. Which at the forefront includes both Shaman and Manix2. If I was intending Cold Steel to consider something else for their models, I would have posted in their forums, but that is not the case here.

I am an admitted Spyderco fanboy and believe they try to satisfy their customers in the realm of "folding knives" more than anyone else. So that is why I am strongly suggesting either a Shaman and/or Manix2 in K390.

Not terribly difficult to understand the desire, many others have supported such an offering. Thanks for your thoughts.

Cold Steel makes a lot of good hard use folders at a price where you won't think twice about pushing them. The 4 Max Scout is $42 right now, Recon Folders can be had under a hundred, Voyagers sell for as low as $30 new, etc.

Their heat treat on AUS10 is nice.

Spyderco does a lot other things better, but for a low cost hard use beater, it's tough to beat something like the models I mentioned.

I used to try to fill every slot with Spyderco designs, but I've come to realize different brands for different roles is a much wiser approach. Play to each companies strengths instead of trying to put a square peg in a round role.

For example: Leatherman makes a good full featured multi tool, Victorinox makes good slim every day carry multi tools, Cold Steel does hard use well, Spyderco makes very refined edge retention monsters and rust proof folders better than anyone else, ESEE has a great warranty for people that like to do silly things with their knives, Tramontina is tough to beat for a dirt cheap machete that's actually decent, Kiwi sells kitchen knives with killer geometry for pocket change, etc.

I'll always be loyal to the brand, but I've had a lot better results playing the field than trying to make a Spyderco work for every role there is.

I don't disagree that there aren't other models from other brands that may fill this particular gap, but of course everyone has their preference as to their favorite ergos and many other details when comparing brand to brand.

Regardless if you disagree or not, I will still stand by my request for either a Manix2 or Shaman in K390. I don't care if you think it's irrelevant or not, or if you think it is a completely useless configuration. I will continue to insist that many actual loyal Spyderco customers would appreciate and even purchase the offering. In fact I bet it would sell out faster than many other recent sprint/limited offerings. I think you underestimate the support that properly done Spyderco K390 has.

I think you may have mistaken my posts.

I don't doubt that those models in K390 would sell well, not at all.

I was simply pointing out that for me, there are better choices for a hard use folder. Whether that be a different steel and / or model from Spyderco, or a different brand.

That doesn't mean my preferences are right and yours are wrong, and I apologize if any of my posts seemed to imply that.

[Mage7]

I don’t understand what you are saying by differentiating between cut initiation force and cutting ability, so it is hard to answer any follow up questions after that.
You also seem to be implying that an edge retention test would only be accurate if the edge was losing sharpness linearly. All of the edge retention testing I’ve ever seen does not show linear loss in sharpness, cutting ability, etc.

Sorry for the delayed response, I didn't get a notification without being directly quoted.

Perhaps saying more is providing more opportunity for me to be misunderstood and/ misinterpreted than it's preventing. I'll try to be more succinct.

According to the TCC regression formula and the carbide volumes for MagnaCut and MagnaMax then...

Knife A is MagnaCut @ 62 HRC and with 20 degree edge giving it a TCC of 667
Knife B is MagnaMax @ 66 HRC and with a 40 degree edge giving it a TCC of 575

This is a realistic example that emphasizes how much more influential geometry is on CATRA score, but let's imagine the hypothetical user cut cardboard all day at a warehouse and came home and was assessing if they needed to be touched up. They strop any knife that doesn't shave arm hair.

Would MagnaMax stay shaving sharp longer than MagnaCut, even if the MagnaCut would have a higher CATRA score?
If so, why?
If not, why not?

Some would say that whether it shaved hair isn't very relevant to how well and how long it will cut cardboard, but I also think most people will not even come close to exhausting either knife's ability to keep cutting cardboard in one day. Then when they come home and evaluate which might need to be touched up for the next day, if they use a shaving test, then that's basically a measure of cut initation force isn't it?

People get too caught up in this stuff. Just use your knives and sharpen to your best ability and let your own results decide for you. This extreme level of nerdness isn't really necessary in a pocket knife! It's ok to be simple/simpfly

It seems to be thought into way too deeply sometimes instead of allowing your own experiences and personal abilities to judge for yourself. Plus, lets face it...how many people are really going to be able to tell the difference between steels that are fairly similar anyways??

I guess there's a middle ground between being happy with any random hardware store knife in 400 series stainless steel and scrutinizing carbide volume and definitions of edge retention, and I'm happy that you're happy sticking to that middle ground, but I just find it interesting and fun to discuss and experiment with these kinds of things.

Where I have to disagree with what you said, though, is the idea that anecdotal experience is very valuable in those discussions. It's not as if I don't use my knives and do my own testing, I just don't feel that my experiences is objective data in the absence of tight controls. I have personally observed things like Rex45 and T15 staying shaving sharp for longer than 15V and Maxamet, and I want to know why. Some would say that it's because Rex45 and T15 are tougher and the impact against a cutting board deforms the apex faster, but that doesn't satisfy logic because of two important factors I won't bore you with the details of, but the point is I have a curiosity to know why this is really the case rather than accept the flawed proposition. Why? For the same reasons you want a Spyderco and to come here and talk about them rather than just cutting stuff with a utility razor and not giving it a second thought. I'm overly interested in knives.

[Wartstein]

Well, folks, I´d just like to reiterate: From my experiences with the Endela SE, K390 would be an amazing choice for the first ffg Manix SE...

(Though serrated K390 apparently did not fare super well, since afaik all the Seki SEs in that steel are no longer in production... ?)