VG10 HRC

[RugerNurse]

VG10 works well with the sharpmaker too. Touched my up on the 15° angle and takes a nice edge.

[ejames13]

Saw a thread recently from circa 2001 comparing the “new” VG-10 to ATS-55 and touting it as a “steel of the gods”. Funny how things change.

[sal]

Hi Ejames,

You can't step into the same river twice.

We were introduced to VG-10 by one of our makers in Seki. They said it was developed by Takefu for grafting of plants. We decided to try it, after testing, on the Moran fixed blade. which is still in our line. And then the Goddard folder. We were in the middle of testing number of blade steels. Vg-10 was an all-around winner in the balanced combination of performances. We've been using it as a "Stable" steel for decades.

sal

[RugerNurse]

We've been using it as a "Stable" steel for decades.

sal

Good thing too. My Delica has cemented itself as my EDC.

[David R]

Sorry to bore you all, but VG10 is still my favourite steel.

Hi Stuart! Great to see you active here again.

I think we're all spoiled by newer steels with better wear resistance. I'm guilty of this as well. I like VG-10 as well, both in folders and for kitchen knives. VG-10 seem to have a bad reputation for kitchen knives. Not sure why.

[Scandi Grind]

I like VG-10 as well, both in folders and for kitchen knives. VG-10 seem to have a bad reputation for kitchen knives. Not sure why.

Shun knives are some of the most wide spread Japanese production kitchen knives and they use VG-10 in their standard line. Because they are popular enough to end up in typical households, many people who are not accustomed to harder, thinner Japanese knives have chipped them while treating them like a heavy German chef knives. This has in part led to widespread rumors that VG-10 is bad. Also most people fail to understand the influence of heat treat, and while Shun probably doesn't have their's as dialed in as a few others, some makers have really nicly treated VG-10. Some sharpeners don't like the feel of VG-10 from certain makers, describing it as gummy feeling, and sometimes as being difficult to remove burrs. I have run into many people who are into kitchen knives that don't like VG-10 for one these reasons. I wouldn't describe it as gummy in my experience, but I do feel like the edge can smooth over easily and therefore often benefits from having a toothier edge. I don't like to polish it too much.

[David R]

I like VG-10 as well, both in folders and for kitchen knives. VG-10 seem to have a bad reputation for kitchen knives. Not sure why.

Shun knives are some of the most wide spread Japanese production kitchen knives and they use VG-10 in their standard line. Because they are popular enough to end up in typical households, many people who are not accustomed to harder, thinner Japanese knives have chipped them while treating them like a heavy German chef knives. This has in part led to widespread rumors that VG-10 is bad. Also most people fail to understand the influence of heat treat, and while Shun probably doesn't have their's as dialed in as a few others, some makers have really nicly treated VG-10. Some sharpeners don't like the feel of VG-10 from certain makers, describing it as gummy feeling, and sometimes as being difficult to remove burrs. I have run into many people who are into kitchen knives that don't like VG-10 for one these reasons. I wouldn't describe it as gummy in my experience, but I do feel like the edge can smooth over easily and therefore often benefits from having a toothier edge. I don't like to polish it too much.

Thanks for the explanation, and I agree that people moving from European knives to Shuns is likely an issue given that the Shun edges blades are thinner at the edge and the still is more brittle. I have a couple of Shuns and they are more than adequate knives. Far better than what most people are using. Note that I have some Spyderco Carter knives as well which are fantastic.

I have not encountered gummy VG-10. The VG-10 I've owned sharpens nicely.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Even though I've been really intrigued by a couple of the newer Supersteel blades in the Spyderco line up I've always kept quite a few Spyderco VG-10 models in my user arsenal. VG-10 is a great dependable "Hard Use" blade steel that is relatively easy to maintain. You can get a really nice edge with VG-10 if you take the proper steps.

I truly hope that VG-10 is around for some time to come. If Spyderco ever does change to a different blade steel in it's Japanese models I will sure be curious as to which blade steel could possibly dethrone it. I will never turn down any hard use model with VG-10 blade steel if I like the blade design.

I agree, JD. I am convinced that VG10 steel will be a major blade and tool steel used by humanity as we expand into the stars.

[Scandi Grind]

I have not encountered gummy VG-10. The VG-10 I've owned sharpens nicely.

I think many who have called it gummy are typically using water stones and are comparing to availible Japanese high carbons such as White #1, White #2, Blue #1, Blue #2, or Super Blue. VG-10 doesn't sharpen as nicely as these steels, but most things won't unless it is another similar low alloy, high carbon steel. For a stainless, I don't find VG-10 to be uncompetetive with other stainless in terms of sharpenability.

[ejames13]

I have all different types of abrasives (diamond, SiC, AlOx) and can put an edge on any steel, but VG-10 just gets to that next level of sharpness with little fuss.

It's also easy to bring back to that high level of sharpness after significant use with just a few strokes on the Sharpmaker, especially compared to many of the more carbide rich steels that are popular today.

[weeping minora]

I have not encountered gummy VG-10. The VG-10 I've owned sharpens nicely.

I think many who have called it gummy are typically using water stones and are comparing to availible Japanese high carbons such as White #1, White #2, Blue #1, Blue #2, or Super Blue. VG-10 doesn't sharpen as nicely as these steels, but most things won't unless it is another similar low alloy, high carbon steel. For a stainless, I don't find VG-10 to be uncompetetive with other stainless in terms of sharpenability.

I have to disagree. The gumminess of a steel (in this case VG-10) is not relative to the abrasives one chooses to use when sharpening. Hard steel will feel hard on whatever abrasive you choose to use, though you will notice a lack of sharpenability (slower cutting speed efficiency in cutting the steel and shaping a clean apex) on softer abrasive mediums.

The gumminess of VG-10 seems to be relative to greater levels of Retained Austenite within the matrix post heat treatment. This can be experienced more readily in stainless steels with relatively high Carbon and Chromium contents, which can work as catalysts for retaining austenite within the hardened matrix, depending on the austenitizing, and quenching temperatures. Higher amounts of RA soften the steel matrix, which can lead to less than likeable sharpenability. This can also lead to stability issues (lack of strength) that many seem to note amongst stainless vs tool steels. Of course this is a simplification, and just a theory.

This more-or-less boils down to the alloying elements and their percentages, the heat treatment protocol, and ultimately, the microstructure.

[Scandi Grind]

I have to disagree. The gumminess of a steel (in this case VG-10) is not relative to the abrasives one chooses to use when sharpening. Hard steel will feel hard on whatever abrasive you choose to use, though you will notice a lack of sharpenability (slower cutting speed efficiency in cutting the steel and shaping a clean apex) on softer abrasive mediums.

The gumminess of VG-10 seems to be relative to greater levels of Retained Austenite within the matrix post heat treatment. This can be experienced more readily in stainless steels with relatively high Carbon and Chromium contents, which can work as catalysts for retaining austenite within the hardened matrix, depending on the austenitizing, and quenching temperatures. Higher amounts of RA soften the steel matrix, which can lead to less than likeable sharpenability. This can also lead to stability issues (lack of strength) that many seem to note amongst stainless vs tool steels. Of course this is a simplification, and just a theory.

This more-or-less boils down to the alloying elements and their percentages, the heat treatment protocol, and ultimately, the microstructure.

I mentioned water stones because I have found that in general sharpening problems seem to be amplified when using water stones VS. a harder abrasive such as diamonds. I think this is in part due to the slower cutting action of water stones. If a steel is less pleasant to sharpen, I find it more niticable on water stones.

[David R]

I have not encountered gummy VG-10. The VG-10 I've owned sharpens nicely.

I think many who have called it gummy are typically using water stones and are comparing to availible Japanese high carbons such as White #1, White #2, Blue #1, Blue #2, or Super Blue. VG-10 doesn't sharpen as nicely as these steels, but most things won't unless it is another similar low alloy, high carbon steel. For a stainless, I don't find VG-10 to be uncompetetive with other stainless in terms of sharpenability.

I have to disagree. The gumminess of a steel (in this case VG-10) is not relative to the abrasives one chooses to use when sharpening. Hard steel will feel hard on whatever abrasive you choose to use, though you will notice a lack of sharpenability (slower cutting speed efficiency in cutting the steel and shaping a clean apex) on softer abrasive mediums.

The gumminess of VG-10 seems to be relative to greater levels of Retained Austenite within the matrix post heat treatment. This can be experienced more readily in stainless steels with relatively high Carbon and Chromium contents, which can work as catalysts for retaining austenite within the hardened matrix, depending on the austenitizing, and quenching temperatures. Higher amounts of RA soften the steel matrix, which can lead to less than likeable sharpenability. This can also lead to stability issues (lack of strength) that many seem to note amongst stainless vs tool steels. Of course this is a simplification, and just a theory.

This more-or-less boils down to the alloying elements and their percentages, the heat treatment protocol, and ultimately, the microstructure.

I'm not challenging that you have experienced gummy VG-10. I'm just saying that I have not.

[weeping minora]

I have to disagree. The gumminess of a steel (in this case VG-10) is not relative to the abrasives one chooses to use when sharpening. Hard steel will feel hard on whatever abrasive you choose to use, though you will notice a lack of sharpenability (slower cutting speed efficiency in cutting the steel and shaping a clean apex) on softer abrasive mediums.

The gumminess of VG-10 seems to be relative to greater levels of Retained Austenite within the matrix post heat treatment. This can be experienced more readily in stainless steels with relatively high Carbon and Chromium contents, which can work as catalysts for retaining austenite within the hardened matrix, depending on the austenitizing, and quenching temperatures. Higher amounts of RA soften the steel matrix, which can lead to less than likeable sharpenability. This can also lead to stability issues (lack of strength) that many seem to note amongst stainless vs tool steels. Of course this is a simplification, and just a theory.

This more-or-less boils down to the alloying elements and their percentages, the heat treatment protocol, and ultimately, the microstructure.

I mentioned water stones because I have found that in general sharpening problems seem to be amplified when using water stones VS. a harder abrasive such as diamonds. I think this is in part due to the slower cutting action of water stones. If a steel is less pleasant to sharpen, I find it more niticable on water stones.

The abrasives used in sharpening do not attribute to the gumminess of a steel. The abrasive feedback only reveals the proper, or improper ability to cut the steel. It's the composition, and heat treatment that dictates the gummy characteristic.

[Scandi Grind]

The abrasives used in sharpening do not attribute to the gumminess of a steel. The abrasive feedback only reveals the proper, or improper ability to cut the steel. It's the composition, and heat treatment that dictates the gummy characteristic.

My point wasn't that the stones contribute to the gumminess of a steel, but rather that gumminess seems to be more bothersome when using slower cutting, soft stones such as water stones VS. faster cutting hard options like a diamond plate. Maybe that isn't your experience though, it is just a pattern that seemed to present itself to me during the sharpening of various knives with different types of stones. Maybe it partially depends on what type of stone a person is more accustomed to using though.