Will s30v be replaced entirely in the lineup?

[Paraguy]

S30V is a great all around steel and it outperforms a lot of "better" steels. See Larrin's write up. I have never had any chipping issues. I've cussed it a couple of times reprofiling it, but it is otherwise awesome.

This is what most people overlook in this subject. Spyderco wouldn't have to look very hard if all they wanted was a steel that holds an edge better, but their knives cater to a larger market than just AFI's and they need a steel that is well rounded. I'm sure there's a cost factor involved too, how much they can get the steel for and what machining costs are. If the next best steel up the ladder costs more to buy and more to machine and it isn't a drastic improvement, the end result is higher priced knives and then everyone is upset about cost. I think this is where Spy27 may come in, since it's proprietary maybe Spyderco will get it at a lower cost, but even then the debate about whether or not it's actually better will still come. MagnaCut is possibly a decade away from being so prevalent that it replaces lesser steels. If it was that easy we wouldn't even be talking about S30V or VG10 after being in the market as long as they have been.

Cost of machining is something a lot of people do not think about. Buck transitioned away from 440C to 425M and then to 420HC because each was successively easier to blank and then machine. Victorinox uses 4110 (I seem to remember) because they can stamp out the blades very cheaply. This keeps the cost down. Companies do not have to replace belts and etc. as often, they can produce more blades faster and cheaper, thus keeping the cost down. If Spyderco were to go to X steel then it would be more costly. It is not only the cost of the steel, but the cost of machining and making the blades.

Exactly my thoughts.

[M Sea]

What don't you like about S30V? It isn't the most exciting steel but I've never found it to lack performance in any area. Takes a great edge for me.

Also a huge fan of S30V, I will keep buying it as long as I can!!

[araneae]

S30V is a great all around steel and it outperforms a lot of "better" steels. See Larrin's write up. I have never had any chipping issues. I've cussed it a couple of times reprofiling it, but it is otherwise awesome.

People are quick to take their anecdotal experience with a steel and come to a faulty conclusion; whereas Larrin does the work, follows scientific methods and provides evidence. S30V is a great steel and is still way up there in performance. I'll take it any day of the week.

[S-3 ranch]

I welcome a replacement of S30V, but only if the new steel has both better edge stability and ease of attaining a truly excellent fine edge.

S30V isn't junk, just not in line with what I prefer in a general use steel. So if S45V and SPY27 don't make meaningful improvements in both of those categories, I'm not interested...

I'm always a bit baffled by people who have never had chipping in this steel, I certainly have experienced both micro (can feel it running a fingernail down the edge) and visible chipping on factory edges and fully reprofiled edges. I don't abuse my knives, but I do cut and carve hard materials regularly.

This is interesting. My first knife in s30v the buck Vantage pro (heat treated by Paul Bos) actually rolled on me in one spot. At first glance it looks like a BIG chip but it is in actuality a roll. Its still there too because I lost the knife before I could fix it and still can't find it to this day. I think Spyderco's s30v in particular chippy. However it still stays at a good working edge for a long time and in some instances I find the micro chips to aid in cutting certain materials.

IMO no steel or company is perfect, my first S35v knife was a very expensive CRK and I had the exact same problem the blade had a terrible temper problem and kept getting flat spots
My G-2 delica is now 30 years old and is still kicking butt as a edc on the ranch, so it’s all good

[Skywalker]

...
I also find it interesting that the legion of S30V fans come out in posts like this, but when a new knife is released in s30V, it often languishes. Based on the vocal supporters, you'd think any S30V knife would always be a top seller.

...

This is an interesting point - what steel in the standard models would get forum afi's to buy them instead of saying "I'm going to wait for a sprint in [X] steel", while also being evenly balanced enough for the mass market? Backlock Manix2, we hardly knew ye - everyone waiting on an M4 sprint and no-one buying S30V!

Personally I do like the way Spyderco seems to be handling it, with a base steel that's generally a well-rounded stainless (VG10 for Seki, S30V for the US) and a high-performance steel (K390 (former ZDP189) for Seki, S110V for the US (with some Maxamet for good measure)) both available as regular production. With high-performance stuff is as far out as K390/S110V/Maxamet, maybe it's reasonable to consider something with a little less wear resistance but a little more ease of sharpening (and maybe toughness?) than S30V - like SPY27 - as the base for US models?

[James Y]

:D maybe upgrade to s35vn

IIRC, Sal had stated that S30V was determined to be the better choice than S35VN for a base steel by end line users.

I happen to like S30V (as well as S35VN), but I already have a bunch of Spydercos in S30V. I would like to have a Native Chief in either SPY27 or S45VN. Whether I would actually tell enough of a difference in real-world use or not, I don’t know.

Jim

[Matus]

Nothing wrong with S30V, but I expect it will be slowly replaced - ultimately with MagnaCut later down the road.

[dj moonbat]

Nothing wrong with S30V, but I expect it will be slowly replaced - ultimately with MagnaCut later down the road.

I mean, not to be a jerk about it, but there is something wrong with it—it lacks toughness and edge stability. Maybe not enough to create problems for most use cases, but every steel has weaknesses; the only question is how severe the weaknesses are.

But of all the steels being used for knives today, one can probably count on one hand the steels that arrive at a better overall compromise.

[S-3 ranch]

S30v is fine , boring as heck as every dog on the block is using it, ( even buck knife is offering S30v in >$100 knives and S35v in < $100 ones,
After seeing some of y’all’s post about the hyper expensive knives that are rust buckets ( Rex45)
(M390 & s110) I am definitely sticking to stuff that isn’t drawer/safe queen likely, but would welcome any - S35v-spy27 -s45v changes
A stretch 2 In spy27 would be awesome ( hint hint)

After a small amount of research I see why S30v is so widely used, it seems to out class S35v and S45v, in EDC use and also in easy manufacture, so though boring it seems likely I made a hasty decision in its merits!

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/20/ ... ery-knife/

I still would love to see a stretch II in spy27
P.s someone sent me a suggestion that if I enjoy stretch, I would love a gayle Bradley 2 with M4 as a edc ranch knife

[Karl_H]

S30V might outclass S35VN and S45VN in a CATRA test, but not in real world use, unless you only use your knife for cutting cardboard. S30V is also harder to manufacture because it has larger vanadium carbides that makes it more time consuming to grind.

Higher hardness and toughness provide better edge stability, the ability to use thinner edge geometries without rolling or chipping (i.,e, better cutting performance). S35VN, S45VN, SPY27 are modest improvements in this regard. However, Magnacut absolutely blows S30V out of the water, when it comes hardness, toughness, grind ability, and corrosion resistance.

[awa54]

...so ready for MagnaCut!

[Doc Dan]

S30v is fine , boring as heck as every dog on the block is using it, ( even buck knife is offering S30v in >$100 knives and S35v in < $100 ones,
After seeing some of y’all’s post about the hyper expensive knives that are rust buckets ( Rex45)
(M390 & s110) I am definitely sticking to stuff that isn’t drawer/safe queen likely, but would welcome any - S35v-spy27 -s45v changes
A stretch 2 In spy27 would be awesome ( hint hint)

After a small amount of research I see why S30v is so widely used, it seems to out class S35v and S45v, in EDC use and also in easy manufacture, so though boring it seems likely I made a hasty decision in its merits!

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/20/ ... ery-knife/

I still would love to see a stretch II in spy27
P.s someone sent me a suggestion that if I enjoy stretch, I would love a gayle Bradley 2 with M4 as a edc ranch knife

Before my father passed we had a small cattle ranch. As I know you are aware, there are not many places that test a knife more thoroughly than a working ranch.

[Matus]

I am actually wondering whether the timing of MagnaCut is a little unfortunate for Spyderco. My understanding is that cost-wise it is similar to other CPM steels (thus also Spy27) - while being better in nearly all properties to most of them. I am curious how this will play out.

[JD Spydo]

Actually I've found it kind of amazing that S30V and VG-10 have been entry level blade steels for as long as they have. Especially with all the newer blade steels that have been appearing in the past 5 to 7 years. Both S30V and VG-10 have served Spyderco and their customer base rather well.

But at this time I would like to see some more new blade steels rolled out at some point. The vast selection of blade steels that Spyderco has made available has been great. Just like when Spyderco rolled out H-1 back around 2003-04>> that turned out nicely for Spyderco and their customers both.

[standy99]

If I was giving anyone a S30V S35V and S45V knife that wasn’t labeled and you were to use all 3 for a month each. 95% of people couldn’t tell what was what at the end.

Have sharpened many a steel being a ex-butcher that sharpens probably 50 knives a couple of months for friends that fish and hunt regularly in Northern Australia and there are probably 2 or 3 steels I can pick by how they sharpen.
440 being the easiest

[JRinFL]

440 A, B, or C?

[S-3 ranch]

If I was giving anyone a S30V S35V and S45V knife that wasn’t labeled and you were to use all 3 for a month each. 95% of people couldn’t tell what was what at the end.

Have sharpened many a steel being a ex-butcher that sharpens probably 50 knives a couple of months for friends that fish and hunt regularly in Northern Australia and there are probably 2 or 3 steels I can pick by how they sharpen.
440 being the easiest

I agree the difference is marginal, haven’t seen magacut yet , 440c and 440v gave me fits till I bought a proper sharpening system and not very good at free hand

[sal]

Interesting comments with some very astute observations. As mentioned, new steels are often developed for reasons that consumers may not see. Chris was involved in the development of S30V. Then he helped Crucible develop S35V to make manufacturing easier and a more eye appealing finish. S45V was created by a metallurgist at Crucible because he thought it would be better in all areas. Not all steels are developed for the same reasons, as noted.

Spyderco is more performance oriented so ease of manufacturing or nice shiny blades, which influences our steel choices. SPY27 was developed for a variety of reasons, and it's not cheaper because it's proprietary. We're watching responses to all of the new steels we've/you've been testing. As mentioned, a base steel needs to be a balanced steel for the general market.

Making it cheaper has never been a Spyderco goal in steels. We feel/believe that our customer is more discerning in their want/needs for a blade steel. S30V has been good as a well balanced base steel. If we do make any changes, they will be well thought out and well tested.

sal

[Steeltoez83]

I really think s30v becomes much more enjoyable with a toothy finish. I personally prefer a 400 grit fine India finish on s30v most of the time. I own several steels that are in my view direct competition for the spot s30v has. So I dulled: spy27, s30v, s35vn, and s45vn on the cbn benchstone. I used benchstones to put fresh edges on all four steels. I wanted to mimmick the sharpmaker ceramics so I used their benchstone equivalents. 400 grit cbn, medium brown stone, and finished on the white fine spyderco ceramic. Whole process took maybe 15 minutes to do all 4 knives. S45vn stood out to me as the best from pack. S30v took second place, however keep in mind this type of edge goes against years of my well established preferences. Having a proven track record for about 7 years I still think s30v remains my personal favorite in this pack of great steels. I'd like to see s30v stick around in some capacity. Everytime it comes up in rotation I enjoy carrying it.

[Larrin]

I would be ok if S30V were replaced by S45VN. The edge retention was slightly less in S45VN but the toughness was equal or slightly better and the corrosion resistance was improved. Also the microstructure was improved. So I think they are close enough to be in the same class while offering some improvements with S45VN.

MagnaCut is an easy drop in replacement for S35VN since it offers equal or better properties in basically any category. There will always be people who just want more wear resistance so certain steels will be preferred still. But I’m hoping that manufacturers that use S35VN for a lot of their production switch over. We will see.