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Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:37 pm
by ArnAnders89
Hopefully we’ll see the Z-Max mule here in 3 to 4 months then since the spy27 is just getting here. Based on my luck in the past it will be the last one released and the end of the year lol
seems like what ever model I want is always late and/or the last to come out at the end of the year. Most recently the k390 police lightweight
oh well though I’m stoked to try Z-max out and get my first spydie fixed blad and make my first handle scales!!
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:01 am
by WilliamMunny
yablanowitz wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:16 pm
eonbluemantra wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:49 pm
How often are mules released?
They were being released at 3 to 4 month intervals back when the program was in full swing. Three have been announced in the Reveals, but this Friday will be the first new release in about 3 years.
That makes me want to get the SPY27 now. It is probably the last one of the three I want but I don’t want to wait 3 or 4 months for the next one either.
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:48 am
by bwj109
Bolster wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:52 pm
TenGrainBread wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:04 pm
Not to simplify the results too much, but Larrin assumed a similar toughness to Maxamet based on composition.
Could be very hard (into low 70s Rc), wildly good TCC (>900) and we might guess toughness possibly below the 5 ft lbs range?
If I was to guess, it'll come in at 66 - 69, similar to maxamet. That 5% Moly would hopefully help with hardening to the higher end of that range. I would say your estimate of <5 lbs. sounds right. Definitely don't beat on it lol
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:21 pm
by Josh Crutchley
bwj109 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:48 am
Bolster wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:52 pm
TenGrainBread wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:04 pm
Not to simplify the results too much, but Larrin assumed a similar toughness to Maxamet based on composition.
Could be very hard (into low 70s Rc), wildly good TCC (>900) and we might guess toughness possibly below the 5 ft lbs range?
If I was to guess, it'll come in at 66 - 69, similar to maxamet. That 5% Moly would hopefully help with hardening to the higher end of that range. I would say your estimate of <5 lbs. sounds right. Definitely don't beat on it lol
I would have to agree it's not likely to be pushed past 67-69. In Larrins testing Z-max was just below 70hrc. I imagine Spyderco would be more conservative.
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 pm
by sal
Hi Josh,
In our Mule Teams, we generally heat treat to "Optimum" hardness as recommended by the foundry. This is what a production knife would normally be built to if we made one. We may on individual models alter that depending on the designer's preference.
sal
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:03 pm
by Josh Crutchley
sal wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 pm
Hi Josh,
In our Mule Teams, we generally heat treat to "Optimum" hardness as recommended by the foundry. This is what a production knife would normally be built to if we made one. We may on individual models alter that depending on the designer's preference.
sal
I looked over the datasheet and seen a range of 63-71hrc. Does the geometry have an impact on the final hrc target? That's the thing I didn't think about, Larrin is using blade geometry designed for Catra. The final hrc doesn't really matter to me. This is definitely one I'm excited for.
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:02 pm
by bwj109
Joshcrutchley1 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:03 pm
sal wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 pm
Hi Josh,
In our Mule Teams, we generally heat treat to "Optimum" hardness as recommended by the foundry. This is what a production knife would normally be built to if we made one. We may on individual models alter that depending on the designer's preference.
sal
I looked over the datasheet and seen a range of 63-71hrc. Does the geometry have an impact on the final hrc target? That's the thing I didn't think about, Larrin is using blade geometry designed for Catra. The final hrc doesn't really matter to me. This is definitely one I'm excited for.
I don't know if this is what you meant but,
It could theoretically be affected during production at the edge. A thin edge bevel would react to heat much quicker affecting HRC readings at or towards the edge. The temper being affected. You might have heard people using the term burnt edges. Final HRC should not matter for an 'optimum' heat. I would imagine they would shot for a balanced performance.
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:39 pm
by elmeringalo
I’ve measured all my Mules and this is the results:
MT02P CPM-M4 62HRC
MT03P CPM-S90V 60HRC
MT04P ZDP-189* 65HRC
MT05P 9Cr18Mo* 59HRC
MT06P CPM-S35VN 58HRC
MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC
MT08P Aogami Super Blue 63,5HRC
MT09P Cobalt Special SUS420J2* 56HRC
MT10P CTS-BD1* 57,5HRC
MT11P M390 60HRC
MT12P CruWear * 59,5HRC
MT12P CruWear (2)* 62HRC
MT13P Elmax 60HRC
MT15P CTS-B75P 63HRC
MT16P CTS-XHP* 60HRC
MT17P K390 64HRC
MT18P CPM-S110V 69HRC
MT19P PSF27* 61HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P* 60,5HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P(2)* 61HRC
MT21P CPM4V* 64HRC
MT21P CPM4V(2) 65HRC
MT22P RWL34* 59HRC
MT22P RWL34(2) 61HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV 60HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV(2) 61HRC
MT24P Maxamet 69HRC
MT25P L200N* 57HRC
MT25P L200N(2) 58HRC
MT26P PMA11* 63HRC
MT26P PMA11(2) 64HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1 63,5 HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1(2) 63HRC
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:38 pm
by Cl1ff
elmeringalo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:39 pm
I’ve measured all my Mules and this is the results:
MT02P CPM-M4 62HRC
...
MT07P DPS15/VG10
34HRC
...
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1(2) 63HRC
I can only assume this is a typo!
Thank you kindly for all of these, though!
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:54 pm
by Team Sick
Kristi, Is there going to be a release date/time for the Z-Max Mule as with the SPY27? And just curious, but why isn't there a MT 30?
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:08 pm
by elmeringalo
I guess it will be the outer layer of the damask, but that was the measurement
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:22 pm
by Josh Crutchley
elmeringalo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:39 pm
I’ve measured all my Mules and this is the results:
MT02P CPM-M4 62HRC
MT03P CPM-S90V 60HRC
MT04P ZDP-189* 65HRC
MT05P 9Cr18Mo* 59HRC
MT06P CPM-S35VN 58HRC
MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC
MT08P Aogami Super Blue 63,5HRC
MT09P Cobalt Special SUS420J2* 56HRC
MT10P CTS-BD1* 57,5HRC
MT11P M390 60HRC
MT12P CruWear * 59,5HRC
MT12P CruWear (2)* 62HRC
MT13P Elmax 60HRC
MT15P CTS-B75P 63HRC
MT16P CTS-XHP* 60HRC
MT17P K390 64HRC
MT18P CPM-S110V 69HRC
MT19P PSF27* 61HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P* 60,5HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P(2)* 61HRC
MT21P CPM4V* 64HRC
MT21P CPM4V(2) 65HRC
MT22P RWL34* 59HRC
MT22P RWL34(2) 61HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV 60HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV(2) 61HRC
MT24P Maxamet 69HRC
MT25P L200N* 57HRC
MT25P L200N(2) 58HRC
MT26P PMA11* 63HRC
MT26P PMA11(2) 64HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1 63,5 HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1(2) 63HRC
S110v @69hrc? I think that might be 59?
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:36 pm
by Josh Crutchley
Team Sick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:54 pm
Kristi, Is there going to be a release date/time for the Z-Max Mule as with the SPY27? And just curious, but why isn't there a MT 30?
The next mule release should be posted here(it will get its own thread) about 1-2 weeks in advance. Mt-30 hasn't been announced yet and I doubt they'll skip it. They do have several prototypes in steels not yet used in production. At this point I know of Rex-121, Vanax, and Cpm-15v.
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:32 pm
by Team Sick
Just wondered as #29 is Z-Max and #31 is CPM S45vn, nothing announced in for #30.
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:40 pm
by sal
I imagine they will announce it when they want to.
sal
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:50 am
by Tucson Tom
sal wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:40 pm
I imagine they will announce it when they want to.
sal
I'll bet you are right! :-)
And I am rather enjoying the mystery surrounding MT30.
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:26 am
by archangel
The Z-Max MT was revealed with #7, right? On Jan 19th, correct?
What was the time frame in which the knives should hit the stores after they were officially revealed, was it 90 days? Can't be that much longer, n'est pas? I hope that schedules have been sorted out a bit after Corona messed them up. Maybe Kristi or Sal could give an indication...?
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:34 pm
by Woodpuppy
Is Z-Max something that should be able to be maintained on the sharpmaker? With cbn rods I assume...
P.S. my favorite bike tires are Ritchey Z-Max :D
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:55 pm
by Bemo
Could be interesting indeed. I'm all for toughness in a fixed blade.
Re: Z-Max mule!
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:31 am
by Gtscotty
Joshcrutchley1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:36 pm
Team Sick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:54 pm
Kristi, Is there going to be a release date/time for the Z-Max Mule as with the SPY27? And just curious, but why isn't there a MT 30?
The next mule release should be posted here(it will get its own thread) about 1-2 weeks in advance. Mt-30 hasn't been announced yet and I doubt they'll skip it. They do have several prototypes in steels not yet used in production. At this point I know of Rex-121,
Vanax, and Cpm-15v.
:eek: Vanax is the Mule I desire above all others, and who wouldn't pick up a Rex-121 if it were offered! I hope those make it into production, but if they do I hope they raise the price some and maybe limit purchases to one-per, otherwise I bet it will be really difficult to compete with all the "one for me and one to flip" folks out there.
Of the steels announced, Z-Max is definitely my must have, although I am glad I picked up one of the SPY27 Mules in case I'm not fast enough on the draw to get a Z-Max.
seems like what ever model I want is always late and/or the last to come out at the end of the year. Most recently the k390 police lightweight 