Spyderco Military Observations

[RamZar]

Military was my perennial favorite folder and Spyderco for a number of years from 2005 to 2007. I got my first one in September 2005 which is a satin CombinationEdge S30V & G-10. S30V was the premium stainless steel back then while other knives were mostly traditional non-powdered stainless steels: VG-10, 154CM and N690. Due to the 4" blade length I knew partially serrated was the way to go and it was like carrying two knives. The other advantage was how light it was for its size! I did get other Military over the years but I still have my original in great shape!

[bearrowland]

Sal I wouldn't change a thing. It's close enough to perfect for me.

[Wartstein]

.......
I don't have strong feelings either way with regard to the liner lock vs compression lock debate.

The liner lock has an advantage when it comes to ease of use, especially with gloved hands.

The compression lock for me would have the advantage of better ergonomics while using the knife, as the large cut-out for the liner lock interferes with ergonomics more than the cut-out on the back side for a compression lock.

Being limited to right hand tip down, to me, feels like a design cue outof the past. Simple giving the model a four way clip and offering it in a new cutting edge steel would go a long way towards modernizing a Spyderco classic.

Your point about ergos of liner- vs comp.lock makes me think that there could be "different ergos", depending on how hard a knife handle gets gripped:

- In "normal" use the comp.lock cutout causes no issues at all for me and the knife is perfectly ergonomic.
But when for example cutting stubborn cardboard or whittling harder wood over an extended period of time, it almost certainly causes that typical hotspot where the hand sits on the cutout.
- When it comes to the linerlock: I personally honestly do even like the large, but "gentle" cutout and where it is on the handle, Feels almost like a chamfering for the finger and makes the handle less blocky.
- But of course the linerlock cutout changes the shape of the scale more than a comp.lock cutout, compared to the same scale but with no cutout at all.

Since I know you have at least one comp.lock folder at the moment (Yojumbo) and a Millie of course: Perhaps you could try some time if you can replicate what I mean when comparing comp. lock and linerlock in "hard" use (like in gripping a knife really tight and cut/whittle tough material over a longer period of time) - I´d be interested in your findings!

/ And yes, a tip up option would be an improvement too in my book (and of course 4 way for the lefties out there!).
If - no, WHEN - I get another Millie, I´ll certainly will certainly find a way to mount a clip in the lanyard hole (as some members suggested or even did themselves) for tip up carry. I tried this already (in a crude and not meant for permanent use) with the Millie I sold ( ), so I know that I definitely prefer tip up

[Xformer]

Wow,

Great story Vivi, thanx much for sharing.

And thanx for all of the comments and suggestions. I don't know how I missed this thread last year, but it looks like a good thing that Noddy brought it back. Eric has a Military 2 that he's testing, but I'd be interested in a discussion for improvement, especially from those that enjoy and appreciate the model. I'll go through it in more detail later (running right now).

sal

=============================================================================

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to Humankind".

The Military is one my favorite. The latest cqi version corrected almost all the problems I had with the previous versions.

2 problems remain imho :

- The lines of the knife looks weird at the front when it's closed.

(Picture added)




- I think Spyderco was right to make it tip down only (the knife is too long to effectively be drawn tip up), but I would appreciate if I could put the clip on the other side so, when closed and in my pocket, the blade is resting against the seam of my pairs of jeans to avoid accidents.

Stronger tip maybe ?

[Wartstein]

=============================================================================

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to Humankind".

....
- I think Spyderco was right to make it tip down only (the knife is too long to effectively be drawn tip up), but I would appreciate if I could put the clip on the other side so, when closed and in my pocket, the blade is resting against the seam of my pairs of jeans to avoid accidents.

Stronger tip maybe ?

For me the Millie is actually not too long to be drawn when tip up. I tried it (clip crudely mounted in the laynard hole) and honestly prefer it.
Why would you mind the option of tip up? Pethaps cause of the looks (additional/visible clip mounting holes in the handle?)

/ Stonger tip: I think most will not like such a change, but I really would not mind a slight "drop" towards the tip for reenforcement, like the Endura has

[Manixguy@1994]

If the clip is mounted correctly tip up works very well on the Military. This conversion was done before the left Military came out.

[yablanowitz]

I don't much care for the Swiss cheese look, i.e. having 9 empty screw holes. Tip up vs. Tip down is an argument that has gone on as long as pocket clips, and it still amounts to personal preference. My preference is for tip down, since all of the knives that have come open in my pocket and cut me have been tip up only. The "spine against pocket seam" argument only works if the clip is strong and tight enough to keep the knife in that position all the time. I have not found one yet that will. Besides, I carry my Military clipped in the front corner of my back pocket.

I have tried to like the compression lock since the L'il Temp, ATR and Paramilitary. So far, I haven't had much luck in that department. I'd take a good slip joint over the comp lock, or a well-executed friction folder for that matter.

I understand that Spyderco needs to follow their market, even if it happens to lead them away from what I prefer. It has been happening for years, and will eventually lead them to a place I won't follow. But that's okay, I think I have a lifetime supply.

[vivi]

Wartstein, I can see where you're coming from regarding the liner lock vs comp lock and hard use.



That's the grip I use for pointing a stick to roast a sausage, and it looks like it should cause a hot spot for me on comp lock knives, but in practice I haven't had an issue with that.

The cut-out for the liner lock on the Military doesn't make the knife feel bad in my grip by any means, but I think having the full scale there would improve ergonomics. I made a cardboard scale to test this theory once and the handle felt better to me without the cut-out for the lock.

That being said, it's placed so that it conforms quite well to my grip and is pretty unobtrusive for how large it is. I can definitely tell there was thought given to its placement in this respect. As it stands the Military has one of my favorite knife handles, and I'd rather see a four way clip than see the scale filled out.

Wow,

Great story Vivi, thanx much for sharing.

And thanx for all of the comments and suggestions. I don't know how I missed this thread last year, but it looks like a good thing that Noddy brought it back. Eric has a Military 2 that he's testing, but I'd be interested in a discussion for improvement, especially from those that enjoy and appreciate the model. I'll go through it in more detail later (running right now).

sal

=============================================================================

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to Humankind".

The Military is one my favorite. The latest cqi version corrected almost all the problems I had with the previous versions.

2 problems remain imho :

- The lines of the knife looks weird at the front when it's closed.
- I think Spyderco was right to make it tip down only (the knife is too long to effectively be drawn tip up), but I would appreciate if I could put the clip on the other side so, when closed and in my pocket, the blade is resting against the seam of my pairs of jeans to avoid accidents.

Stronger tip maybe ?

Might be the case for some draw styles / hand sizes, but I can easily draw a Military, Police, Yojumbo, Manix XL etc. from tip up position. Having tried this knife with a tip up clip I can say that for me it also carries more comfortably in my pocket that way. Though I do like the tip down clip for how I'm carrying mine this morning - IWB.

[JD Spydo]

Vivi I remember a story that someone told me about the C-36 Military model shortly after I joined the forum in the fall of 2004. By that time the C-36 Military had been in the main line up for about 7 years. And that was before it became the showcase model for introducing all the newer supersteel blades.

I was told by a guy I trust that Sal had wanted to do a design based on the following: I heard that he wanted to create a design that he could feel confident enough to give to one of his own kids or family member who was going into the US armed forces>>knowing that they would have an excellent blade for their time in military service. So he designed what he thought to be a premier knife design which would be great for anyone in the US Military ( or any of our allies too for that matter). His design of the C-36 Military is another reason I've had an affinity for GOLDEN, Colorado, USA Earth models. Along with several other great designs that are made at the GOLDEN, CO plant.

You couldn't have given the C-36 Model a better name than the "MILITARY">> which later spawned the PARA2 and PARA3 models. This C-36 model is one of the better "In House" designs that really put Spyderco on the map so to speak.

[Steeltoez83]

The hundred pacer is currently my favorite spyderco. And for a possible military 2 id like to see the pacer influence the changes. Thumb ramp being part of the handle. The choil being reduced almost removed, wider in pocket for better egos. Multi colored g10 scales. I think a trail point blade shape is awesome but not in the spirit of the mille. Just my 2 cents.

[kerrcobra]

IMG_20211221_091124_391.jpg

The hundred pacer is currently my favorite spyderco. And for a possible military 2 id like to see the pacer influence the changes. Thumb ramp being part of the handle. The choil being reduced almost removed, wider in pocket for better egos. Multi colored g10 scales. I think a trail point blade shape is awesome but not in the spirit of the mille. Just my 2 cents.

I wouldn't want to see any of those changes. I think the hundred pacer is hideous, but I'm glad you have one and enjoy it. Different strokes and whatnot.

[yablanowitz]

IMG_20211221_091124_391.jpg

The hundred pacer is currently my favorite spyderco. And for a possible military 2 id like to see the pacer influence the changes. Thumb ramp being part of the handle. The choil being reduced almost removed, wider in pocket for better egos. Multi colored g10 scales. I think a trail point blade shape is awesome but not in the spirit of the mille. Just my 2 cents.

I have a Hundred Pacer as well, and it is an interesting knife, but I find it too bulky for regular carry. It also didn't sell particilarly well, as evidenced by the fact that I got mine on overstock/clearance at the SFO. Why would they alter a solid seller like the Military to be more like a poor seller like the Hundred Pacer?

[Xformer]

=============================================================================

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to Humankind".

....
- I think Spyderco was right to make it tip down only (the knife is too long to effectively be drawn tip up), but I would appreciate if I could put the clip on the other side so, when closed and in my pocket, the blade is resting against the seam of my pairs of jeans to avoid accidents.

Stronger tip maybe ?

For me the Millie is actually not too long to be drawn when tip up. I tried it (clip crudely mounted in the laynard hole) and honestly prefer it.
Why would you mind the option of tip up? Pethaps cause of the looks (additional/visible clip mounting holes in the handle?)

/ Stonger tip: I think most will not like such a change, but I really would not mind a slight "drop" towards the tip for reenforcement, like the Endura has

About the bolded, yes. I'm slightly tired to see knives design being adapted to foster 1% of the customers (laynard holes, 4 tips positions...).

[Bloke]

The Military is a mess!

Hope all the clever people on the Forum can give Mr Glesser some clues on how to fix it.

[bearrowland]

There's Bloke!!

[Wartstein]

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to Humankind".

For me the Millie is actually not too long to be drawn when tip up. I tried it (clip crudely mounted in the laynard hole) and honestly prefer it.
Why would you mind the option of tip up? Pethaps cause of the looks (additional/visible clip mounting holes in the handle?)

/ Stonger tip: I think most will not like such a change, but I really would not mind a slight "drop" towards the tip for reenforcement, like the Endura has

About the bolded, yes. I'm slightly tired to see knives design being adapted to foster 1% of the customers (laynard holes, 4 tips positions...).

I guess you could be right that just a very low percentage of customers and even more so people who really use their knives want a lanyard on a large folder (different story perhaps on small ones!)

But: Perhaps I got you wrong: You say that the additional option for tip up (in case of the Millie) "fosters just 1% of the customers?!
It seems to me more people prefer tip up over tip down even on large folders (I could be wrong, but I very rarely see clips mounted tip down on let´s say Police, Chief, Endura,.. despite they´d offer the option, and don´t hear people complain if there only is a tip up option on large folders like the Manix 2 XL... )

[aicolainen]

The Military is a mess!

Hope all the clever people on the Forum can give Mr Glesser some clues on how to fix it.

^This^

hahaha. Thanks for the laugh :)

[Xformer]

For me the Millie is actually not too long to be drawn when tip up. I tried it (clip crudely mounted in the laynard hole) and honestly prefer it.
Why would you mind the option of tip up? Pethaps cause of the looks (additional/visible clip mounting holes in the handle?)

/ Stonger tip: I think most will not like such a change, but I really would not mind a slight "drop" towards the tip for reenforcement, like the Endura has

About the bolded, yes. I'm slightly tired to see knives design being adapted to foster 1% of the customers (laynard holes, 4 tips positions...).

I guess you could be right that just a very low percentage of customers and even more so people who really use their knives want a lanyard on a large folder (different story perhaps on small ones!)

But: Perhaps I got you wrong: You say that the additional option for tip up (in case of the Millie) "fosters just 1% of the customers?!
It seems to me more people prefer tip up over tip down even on large folders (I could be wrong, but I very rarely see clips mounted tip down on let´s say Police, Chief, Endura,.. despite they´d offer the option, and don´t hear people complain if there only is a tip up option on large folders like the Manix 2 XL... )

The clip position depends on the knife, so yeah I think the Military should stay as a tip down only. I've always been a tip up person but the military is different. I'm all for respecting what the vast majority of people want and giving them just that, so if the vast majority would prefer a tip up Military, let's go for it.

It's nice to give people options, but that 1% of people using laynard holes or 4 positions clips could also mod their knives to accomodare their particular needs. Last time I suggested that Spyderco could offer a satin clip on the Delica instead of the cheap black coat they use, 3/4 of the forum told me to just use sand paper (and I'm quite tired of sanding my clips =D).

Instead, I have 2 clips positions I don't use on my PM2 (the tip down position) with kind of disgracious small holes and a laynard hole that makes the knife a pain in the neck to disassemble (I switch scales from time to time).

[yablanowitz]

For me the Millie is actually not too long to be drawn when tip up. I tried it (clip crudely mounted in the laynard hole) and honestly prefer it.
Why would you mind the option of tip up? Pethaps cause of the looks (additional/visible clip mounting holes in the handle?)

/ Stonger tip: I think most will not like such a change, but I really would not mind a slight "drop" towards the tip for reenforcement, like the Endura has

About the bolded, yes. I'm slightly tired to see knives design being adapted to foster 1% of the customers (laynard holes, 4 tips positions...).

I guess you could be right that just a very low percentage of customers and even more so people who really use their knives want a lanyard on a large folder (different story perhaps on small ones!)

But: Perhaps I got you wrong: You say that the additional option for tip up (in case of the Millie) "fosters just 1% of the customers?!
It seems to me more people prefer tip up over tip down even on large folders (I could be wrong, but I very rarely see clips mounted tip down on let´s say Police, Chief, Endura,.. despite they´d offer the option, and don´t hear people complain if there only is a tip up option on large folders like the Manix 2 XL... )

Don't ever look at my knives. Fifty Police Models from a PIG to a serrated K390 P4 -all tip down. A dozen Endura and Delica 4s, all tip down. 4 Native Chiefs, all tip down. Original Manix and 83mm Manix, both tip down. I don't and won't own a Manix XL, in part because of that tip-up only clip.

[Wartstein]

For me the Millie is actually not too long to be drawn when tip up. I tried it (clip crudely mounted in the laynard hole) and honestly prefer it.
Why would you mind the option of tip up? Pethaps cause of the looks (additional/visible clip mounting holes in the handle?)

/ Stonger tip: I think most will not like such a change, but I really would not mind a slight "drop" towards the tip for reenforcement, like the Endura has

The clip position depends on the knife, so yeah I think the Military should stay as a tip down only. I've always been a tip up person but the military is different. I'm all for respecting what the vast majority of people want and giving them just that, so if the vast majority would prefer a tip up Military, let's go for it.

It's nice to give people options, but that 1% of people using laynard holes or 4 positions clips could also mod their knives to accomodare their particular needs. Last time I suggested that Spyderco could offer a satin clip on the Delica instead of the cheap black coat they use, 3/4 of the forum told me to just use sand paper (and I'm quite tired of sanding my clips =D).

Instead, I have 2 clips positions I don't use on my PM2 (the tip down position) with kind of disgracious small holes and a laynard hole that makes the knife a pain in the neck to disassemble (I switch scales from time to time).

Valid points, but I think modding a Millie for tip up carry is a lot harder than sanding a clip.
The screws would sit just in the G10, or one would have to come up with a durable lanyard hole mount.

I get that unused and open holes for clip screws might not look pretty, but functionally speaking leaving those for tip up open does not matter.
Perhaps a different story for open/ unused tip down position holes, since they are right above the pivot area and so potentially dirt and gunk could get to the pivot (never happened to any of my Spydies though I think).

Also this is not about the "1% of people who use four position clips (like in all of those four or at least two positions), but about those I am sure much more than 1% who just want a tip up Millie.

Anyway, if I get my hands on another Millie I'll do as you say and mod it for tip up carry...