Spyderco Forums

gbcaffee wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:33 am

RustyIron wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:21 pm

Joshcrutchley1 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:05 am

The only thing available was a old beat up manix 2 so I pulled the trigger. This is the first knife I stepped out of my comfort zone for. I was blown away by the ergonomics. It seems no matter how I hold it never feels too big.

I don't want to be an enabler... but...

When the Manix 2 XL came out I wasn't interested because the Manix 2 was so darned good. Why mess with perfection? Then the XL was offered in M4 and I became curious. I bought two, with he intention of selling my least favorite. When the knives were delivered, I was disappointed that they were so big. But being an open-minded sort of bloke, I carried one for a week. In the space of five days I fell in love with the XL. The handle fits me BETTER than the regular Manix 2, and a larger blade is always welcome. The XL was so good that I decided to keep both.

If you thought the Manix 2 would be too large and were pleasantly surprised, be careful about trying out an XL. You might just set your old Manix aside, in favor of the BEST sized knife.

I grabbed a Manix XL in M4 as well and I can't believe how much I love that knife. The manix 2 is a fantastic knife and I have several in different steels and handles, but the times when I would be using the finger choil on the manix 2 translate to a full handle grip on the XL and I don't use the choil at all. it feels good to be back that far on the knife. I would go for a choilless XL in a premium tool steel in a heartbeat.

Already made a mock-up :)



I only use the choil when whittling. If the edge went further back I wouldn't need to.

vivi wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:35 am

gbcaffee wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:33 am

RustyIron wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:21 pm

Joshcrutchley1 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:05 am

The only thing available was a old beat up manix 2 so I pulled the trigger. This is the first knife I stepped out of my comfort zone for. I was blown away by the ergonomics. It seems no matter how I hold it never feels too big.

I don't want to be an enabler... but...

When the Manix 2 XL came out I wasn't interested because the Manix 2 was so darned good. Why mess with perfection? Then the XL was offered in M4 and I became curious. I bought two, with he intention of selling my least favorite. When the knives were delivered, I was disappointed that they were so big. But being an open-minded sort of bloke, I carried one for a week. In the space of five days I fell in love with the XL. The handle fits me BETTER than the regular Manix 2, and a larger blade is always welcome. The XL was so good that I decided to keep both.

If you thought the Manix 2 would be too large and were pleasantly surprised, be careful about trying out an XL. You might just set your old Manix aside, in favor of the BEST sized knife.

I grabbed a Manix XL in M4 as well and I can't believe how much I love that knife. The manix 2 is a fantastic knife and I have several in different steels and handles, but the times when I would be using the finger choil on the manix 2 translate to a full handle grip on the XL and I don't use the choil at all. it feels good to be back that far on the knife. I would go for a choilless XL in a premium tool steel in a heartbeat.

Already made a mock-up:)

Yes please!

vivi wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:13 am

Blnd wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:50 am

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:16 am

bearrowland wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:57 pm

My fifth pocket is my favorite knife sheath! I have been on the downsizing trend for awhile now, but deep down I'd love to EDC a Military. Words from an old knife sage I knew: A large knife will do anything a small knife can, but the reverse isn't necessarily true. Just when I think I have my EDC figured out

That´s just very true in my experience. It is just no problem at all to practically "shorten" a large knife should need be by using a pinch grip on the blade or whatever, while one just can´t make a short blade longer.

Maybe though the saying could be altered like that a large knife will do with ease anything a small knife can, while a small knife will do many large knife tasks just very awkwardly and messy (think of cutting up a melon with a DFly or something like that) - and some the small knife won´t do at all (if a certain amount of reach is necessary for example).

If I’m cutting up a melon I’m using my very nice kitchen knives, not my EDC.

In my experience, folks tend to justify a larger blade by pushing their EDC into use-cases typically occupied by more specialized knives (food prep, dinner knife, axe Etc.). There isn’t anything wrong with that of course, but I think it’s the result of knifeaholism rather than a practical take on EDC.

I’ll caveat that by saying that I’ve been exclusively carrying (very) small knives as EDC for many, many years. I’m still waiting for the task my small knives won’t handle (but admittedly I’m not cutting up a melon in my car or using it to fend off black Bart and his gang with Ralphie).

The good news is that there are a ton of options out there and we are blessed with a gluttony of choice, regardless of how we choose to use them.

Small knives can generally get the job done, but big knives do it more efficiently for me. Here's a few scenarios:

- Breaking down a lot of cardboard. Bigger knives have more edge to dull, so they'll cut more before needing sharpened. The longer edge also means you can stack pieces and slice them at once, speeding up the job.

- Hiking down a trail and there's some briars growing across, you decide to trim them back. With a dragonfly you'd have to carefully grab each one with an off hand and cut them, with a police or Manix XL just slash through em.

- Cutting up an apple. My Police will quarter one in two cuts. Dragonfly takes four. Eat an apple or two a day and it starts to add up.

- Misc utility. Its moving day and you decide you're going to slice up your 8" thick memory foam mattress top. Which blade length do you choose? I chose my 9" Scrapyard Dogfather....wouldn't want to do that job with a delica.

- Going for a long bike ride, I'm about 25 miles from home and pass a fruit stand with cantaloupes for 1$. Two knives on me, my Perrin Street Bowie and a Leatherman Micra. I picked the bigger one.

I've EDC'd Swiss Army Knives and gotten by just fine, so I'm not saying small knives are incapable. Same story when I EDC'd a UKPK. I merely find larger knives more efficient, require less sharpenings and tend to fit my grip better. But if I moved somewhere that allowed knives Delica sized and smaller, I'd get by.

I’m not disagreeing with any of your examples - my point was more along the lines that determinations of “practicality” and “efficiency” are so often distorted by our own biases and use cases, and often some of the examples proffered are a little extreme (“I can’t use my ladybug to cut up dinner...” etc.) and don’t really get at the heart of the issue.

For example - I’ve carried a very small knife on 1000+ Miles of Sierra Nevada backpacking - it’s absolutely accomplished everything I’ve needed, including food prep - in a size and weight package that is borderline zero, and I’ll gladly take any decrease in blade length “efficiency” for the overall carry package efficiency.

Which brings up my last point - EDC also includes the other 99% of the time we ARENT using a knife. In that case, a small, unobtrusive, and out of the way knife wins the the “practicality” award hands down, no?

That cost/benefit curve of overall package vs blade length skew preferences one way or another and end up distorting our views on what makes a knife practical or efficient depending on where we stand.

That’s why I mentioned having so many choices is a good thing. EDC and the compromises we make to carry a folding knife will be different for all - but with our own distorted bias we tend to forget the full picture of EDC - is it the right knife for every task, or is it just enough knife for what we need?

skeeg11 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:19 am

ladybug93 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:13 am

most people aren't skinning deer every day

So true. Thank god for Elk, Caribou, Black Bear and lotsa wild pig. :D

i could go for some elk. aside from pig, that's by far the tastiest meat i've eaten.

ladybug93 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:20 pm

skeeg11 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:19 am

ladybug93 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:13 am

most people aren't skinning deer every day

So true. Thank god for Elk, Caribou, Black Bear and lotsa wild pig. :D

i could go for some elk. aside from pig, that's by far the tastiest meat i've eaten.

Yesiree Bob! Well marbled Raghorn makes for some mighty fine dining. When I was young and dumb I hunted for the largest set of horns I could find. A Royal in rut is no culinary prize. The stank is pretty rank. In fact, a very good case can be made for a fat cow elk as far as quality meat and yield is concerned. Don't miss beef a bit as long as there's prime elk in the larder.

Blnd wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:20 pm

I’m not disagreeing with any of your examples - my point was more along the lines that determinations of “practicality” and “efficiency” are so often distorted by our own biases and use cases, and often some of the examples proffered are a little extreme (“I can’t use my ladybug to cut up dinner...” etc.) and don’t really get at the heart of the issue.

For example - I’ve carried a very small knife on 1000+ Miles of Sierra Nevada backpacking - it’s absolutely accomplished everything I’ve needed, including food prep - in a size and weight package that is borderline zero, and I’ll gladly take any decrease in blade length “efficiency” for the overall carry package efficiency.

Which brings up my last point - EDC also includes the other 99% of the time we ARENT using a knife. In that case, a small, unobtrusive, and out of the way knife wins the the “practicality” award hands down, no?

That cost/benefit curve of overall package vs blade length skew preferences one way or another and end up distorting our views on what makes a knife practical or efficient depending on where we stand.

That’s why I mentioned having so many choices is a good thing. EDC and the compromises we make to carry a folding knife will be different for all - but with our own distorted bias we tend to forget the full picture of EDC - is it the right knife for every task, or is it just enough knife for what we need?

Just a quick +1 to this since we can't add a "like" to a post.

Blnd wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:20 pm

vivi wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:13 am

Blnd wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:50 am

Wartstein wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:16 am

That´s just very true in my experience. It is just no problem at all to practically "shorten" a large knife should need be by using a pinch grip on the blade or whatever, while one just can´t make a short blade longer.

Maybe though the saying could be altered like that a large knife will do with ease anything a small knife can, while a small knife will do many large knife tasks just very awkwardly and messy (think of cutting up a melon with a DFly or something like that) - and some the small knife won´t do at all (if a certain amount of reach is necessary for example).

If I’m cutting up a melon I’m using my very nice kitchen knives, not my EDC.

In my experience, folks tend to justify a larger blade by pushing their EDC into use-cases typically occupied by more specialized knives (food prep, dinner knife, axe Etc.). There isn’t anything wrong with that of course, but I think it’s the result of knifeaholism rather than a practical take on EDC.

I’ll caveat that by saying that I’ve been exclusively carrying (very) small knives as EDC for many, many years. I’m still waiting for the task my small knives won’t handle (but admittedly I’m not cutting up a melon in my car or using it to fend off black Bart and his gang with Ralphie).

The good news is that there are a ton of options out there and we are blessed with a gluttony of choice, regardless of how we choose to use them.

Small knives can generally get the job done, but big knives do it more efficiently for me. Here's a few scenarios:

- Breaking down a lot of cardboard. Bigger knives have more edge to dull, so they'll cut more before needing sharpened. The longer edge also means you can stack pieces and slice them at once, speeding up the job.

- Hiking down a trail and there's some briars growing across, you decide to trim them back. With a dragonfly you'd have to carefully grab each one with an off hand and cut them, with a police or Manix XL just slash through em.

- Cutting up an apple. My Police will quarter one in two cuts. Dragonfly takes four. Eat an apple or two a day and it starts to add up.

- Misc utility. Its moving day and you decide you're going to slice up your 8" thick memory foam mattress top. Which blade length do you choose? I chose my 9" Scrapyard Dogfather....wouldn't want to do that job with a delica.

- Going for a long bike ride, I'm about 25 miles from home and pass a fruit stand with cantaloupes for 1$. Two knives on me, my Perrin Street Bowie and a Leatherman Micra. I picked the bigger one.

I've EDC'd Swiss Army Knives and gotten by just fine, so I'm not saying small knives are incapable. Same story when I EDC'd a UKPK. I merely find larger knives more efficient, require less sharpenings and tend to fit my grip better. But if I moved somewhere that allowed knives Delica sized and smaller, I'd get by.

I’m not disagreeing with any of your examples - my point was more along the lines that determinations of “practicality” and “efficiency” are so often distorted by our own biases and use cases, and often some of the examples proffered are a little extreme (“I can’t use my ladybug to cut up dinner...” etc.) and don’t really get at the heart of the issue.

For example - I’ve carried a very small knife on 1000+ Miles of Sierra Nevada backpacking - it’s absolutely accomplished everything I’ve needed, including food prep - in a size and weight package that is borderline zero, and I’ll gladly take any decrease in blade length “efficiency” for the overall carry package efficiency.

Which brings up my last point - EDC also includes the other 99% of the time we ARENT using a knife. In that case, a small, unobtrusive, and out of the way knife wins the the “practicality” award hands down, no?

That cost/benefit curve of overall package vs blade length skew preferences one way or another and end up distorting our views on what makes a knife practical or efficient depending on where we stand.

That’s why I mentioned having so many choices is a good thing. EDC and the compromises we make to carry a folding knife will be different for all - but with our own distorted bias we tend to forget the full picture of EDC - is it the right knife for every task, or is it just enough knife for what we need?

I took an Ark on an 800 mile bike tour, found it lacking, and have since gone back to Pacific Salts for bike campings. Different strokes.

I'm not here to convince anyone to carry a bigger knife, just pointing out reasons why they work better for me. And its mostly hand size at the end of the day anyways.

Blnd wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:20 pm

Which brings up my last point - EDC also includes the other 99% of the time we ARENT using a knife. In that case, a small, unobtrusive, and out of the way knife wins the the “practicality” award hands down, no?

If I were doing some kind of extreme hiking where every ounce of weight mattered then yes maybe, but in my typically daily carry size and weight (to an extent) do not matter to me if it means better ergonomics in my hand. For me having a wafer thin handle just for a flatter pocket profile is a poor tradeoff for worse ergonomics.

I like smaller knives but I rarely carry them, unless as a 3rd knife. I usually carry knives in the larger mediumish range, around 3 to 3.5 or maybe a hair bigger. I don't think NC has a length limit but i live in Raleigh where I've read there was a 3" law, and have also heard that officers would test blades against the palms of their hands to roughly gauge whether a folder was too large. I've never had any trouble but usually that 3-3.5" range is good for carrying everywhere other than a courthouse or some other place that doesn't allow knives. I have some larger models I like, Military, Chinook, Civilian, etc. but unless I'm out hiking or gardening I tend not to see as much of an advantage to that extra .5-1". many larger models also get a bit crowded or long to sit in some pockets (Military gets high marks for staying fairly slender while giving greater length - I would assume the police is the same), but mostly I have a lot more options in the Matriarch/Endura/Manix2/PM2 size range so I can try different blade steels, colors, waved or not, etc.within that range.

defenestrate wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:18 pm

...Military gets high marks for staying fairly slender while giving greater length - I would assume the police is the same...

The Police 4 carries remarkably small, more so than the Military in my opinion; even smaller than the Manix 2! What I’m saying is, I think you’d like one

MFlovejp wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:27 pm

defenestrate wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:18 pm

...Military gets high marks for staying fairly slender while giving greater length - I would assume the police is the same...

The Police 4 carries remarkably small, more so than the Military in my opinion;even smaller than the Manix 2! What I’m saying is, I think you’d like one

Totally depends on if you mind length or width in pocket more.

For me it is clearly the former, while width in pocket does not bother me at all. The Manix to me is a small knife in practically every aspect: Small carry (for me), short cutting edge, and I totally like it for a small knife in my categorization.

The Endura though is close to being to large (but is just ok), cause it is long. The Millie, Police...would be larger than I´d want in carry.

Reason being: Since I normally carry nothing else in my RFP, width of a knife does not matter.
But length does, since the knife can get a bit inconvenient when riding a bicycle or doing high steps in mountain hiking.
That´s also one of the reason why I don´t like deep pocket clips at all. They just make knives longer in the pocket.

I have larger hands so I've found I don't like anything smaller than a Manix 2. I think the sweet spot for me is 3.75-4.25inch, but CO (the home of Spyderco) has an asinine 3.5inch conceal carry law so that's what I mostly own and carry. I usually open carry a 4.5inch fixed blade when hiking. On the plus side CO just legalized automatic knives so it's just a matter of time before I pick up an Autonomy 2.

Edit: deleted. I already replied to this thread oops.

Small knives are best knives.

Yup. I always thought the Military was too big for EDC, but I got one at a good price and started to anyway. Man, it barely takes up any room in the pocket - seems like it carries smaller than my PM2. Now I carry it all the time, it's just so much blade in such a slim, lightweight package.

Also replied in this thread already when it came up first.

So just briefly: Still large folders, as long as they remain convenient in carry, for me personally are really always more versatile and capable in more tasks than small folders. And I don´t think this will ever change.

One of my mentors said, "Simplicate and add lightness". So designs like the P4 make sense to me when laws are not a concern. Most of the time, Vivi and I usually agree on design. Large. light, high performance, easy to carry and reliable as ****.

sal

During the colder seasons, when I can't wear shorts (I know, I'm a sissy ), I carry a small environment friendly (and legally permitted for carry) AND a larger Spydie, cause I have the pockets for them and don't mind the weight. You know me (I'm a big guy), light weight of a knife is NO plus for me - au contraire. :o

I even carry the biggest 4 of my collection (Millie, Szabo Folder, Tighe Stick, K2) from time to time - not as often though as my standard larger models Smock, Southard Folder, PM2, Stretch, ... Yes, these are in fact more mid range, but still larger than the small Spydies Pingo / UKPK / Urban / Meerkat / Roadie...

Most times there's a third Spydie in my pocket, a bug that is tied to my keys. And sometimes I carry one bigger plus TWO smaller Spydies, one of them being my ClipiTool, cause I like to have scissors with me. In these cases I then have 4 Spydies on me. Too much...? No.... :)

The essence of this: small & handy Spydies are cool, but always have one bigger Spydie with you, too. :D

Laws and social pressures have pushed people away from big knives. Thankfully we have no size limit here and nobody cares what I carry. I use my Police4 at work all the time. I have been carrying larger knives for so long now that a Para2 seems small. I do still occasionally carry Delicas and Natives but only when paired with a full size knife.

Keep in mind that for many years the Buck 110 was one of the most popular folders and it is a pretty large knife.

On the other hand I do realize that many people’s knife needs are minimal and that the Chap and Lil’ Native are all they need. Different strokes.

sal wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:33 am

One of my mentors said, "Simplicate and add lightness". So designs like the P4 make sense to me when laws are not a concern. Most of the time, Vivi and I usually agree on design. Large. light, high performance, easy to carry and reliable as ****.

sal

That’s ok, you also designed the OTHER best EDC knife (Dragonfly2) so I’ll let the large knife sacrilege slide.

Sumdumguy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:40 am

I do know of an area where large blades are very troublesome, if not completely unwieldy.

Skinning game. I would never(given the choice) choose anything larger than 3". Preferably 2-2.5".

This can be seen in the Stretch. It has an edge of like 2.9" and was designed with hunting/skinning in mind.

Now that I think about it, a Swick with the edge/tip profile of the Stretch would probably make for an awesome game knife.

That's a great point you make about the SWICK model possibly being a great wild game knife. It's been a few years back in one of the old Backwoodsman magazines that a regular contributor named "Christopher Nyerges wrote a most interesting article about big versus small blades for game and regular cutting chores. It was a most amazing article and the points that Mr. Nyerges made in that article truly made great common sense. The last two fixed blades I ever field dressed deer with were my Spyderco Temperance 1 model and my older Spyderco Micarta STREETBEAT model. Neither one of them have a very large blade but yet both did a splendid job.

Now I wouldn't want to go too small either. If I were using a folder I wouldn't want to go smaller than a C-36 Military or at the very smallest would be a Para2 or Endura. But the point Mr. Nyerges made was that big blades aren't as efficient as a lot of people may believe. Even with a fillet knife I rarely go longer than a 8 inch blade and most of the time I'm completely content using a fillet knife with a 6 inch blade. In 95% of my fish cleaning/filleting jobs I find that any of my Spyderco Catcherman models are usually quite adequate for most anything I need to do with big or smaller freshwater fish.

Size is a good marketing tool for many people who buy based on good looks but in all practicality I find that most field, stream and lakeside cutting jobs can be done well with the aforementioned medium sized blades.