I'm falling out of love with the Compression Lock

[Evil D]

Sounds like you need left-hand comp lock variants for all of your hard, hammer-grip cutting activities. :)

Not sure that would make a difference, still a thin half bit of handle back there. I need to go do some hard cutting with my Spyderhawk for comparison.

[wrdwrght]

More a barely-formed philosophical thought.

Are there not some degrees of work where any apparently ergonomic knife (whether a folder or not) will present hot spots in a given set of hands with one hold or another?

If so, I suspect that one of a designer’s goals is to delay in-hand friction farther along the curve of force needed to accomplish work.

I think Sal is a master of this delay.

[JRinFL]

Well, I'm glad someone else is bringing up the comfort issue of comp locks. Too bad so many sprints are on knives that feature the fiddle-friendly comp lock. I don't hate the lock, it makes for a fine EDC knife lock, but for hard work other locks are superior. For truly difficult heavy cutting a fixed blade will always be best.

[TkoK83Spy]

I agree, it seems to appeal more to fidgeters than hard users...but it's also plenty capable as a hard use lock. As previously mentioned, I also find the lock a bit difficult in use when gloves are required. I've never experienced the hot spot that Dave has shown here, but can see how it could easily happen.

I prefer the CBBL, especially when using gloves. I have nothing against the liner locks or backlocks either. Funny thing is, most of my collection is compression lock knives...yet it's not my favorite :confused:

[Evil D]

More a barely-formed philosophical thought.

Are there not some degrees of work where any apparently ergonomic knife (whether a folder or not) will present hot spots in a given set of hands with one hold or another?

If so, I suspect that one of a designer’s goals is to delay in-hand friction farther along the curve of force needed to accomplish work.

I think Sal is a master of this delay.

Eventually with enough work you'll probably form blisters even if a grip is molded from your actual hand. I'm ok with blaming a large part of this issue on maybe using the wrong tool for the job, but once I start putting limits on my knife I start to really question why I pay so much for them if I can't sit in the shade and whittle sticks.

[James Y]

When the compression lock first came out, I didn’t like it, because when I handled a few knives with it, I’d get pinched on my index finger. But when I actually bought my first compression lock, a PM2 back in 2011, I didn’t experience that at all, and never have since. So the lock design must have been tweaked.

I haven’t experienced that same hot spot while using with my comp lock knives, BUT the sharp, unchamfered edges of the PM2 scales where the fingers grip irritate me during longer use.

As far as lock strength, to me the comp lock is plenty strong enough. There’s a lot more to folding knife safety than a lock’s brute strength. I treat blade locks as additional safeties, not as potentially foolproof. I’ve used SAKs and other slipjoint knives like stockman patterns with no locks fairly extensively, over decades for many things, and never had one close on me. OTOH, the worst knife injury I ever got was while using a Cold Steel triad lock knife. Now, the triad lock itself never failed on me, it was user error on my part. But when I (stupidly) attempted to one-hand close a Code 4, the blade slammed shut on my index finger. The potential danger with that design lay in the unlocking and closing phase; it didn’t matter that the lock was vault solid while open and locked. Some will think my mentioning this is stupid; I think otherwise. Folding knife and lock safety includes all aspects during use, not only when it’s “locked and loaded.” And many people consider the triad lock to be the safest and strongest lock out there. But accidents can still happen.

Jim

[Evil D]

I'm one of the few that doesn't put as much concern on lock strength as I do ease of operation. I would have done most of the tests I've done with my Caribbean if it were a friction folder. I grew up whittling sticks with a slip joint.

[tyd450]

Just a tip and it may seem obvious but it never occurred to me until I saw someone else mention it.... When you are wearing gloves with a compression lock knife, don't try to close it using your normal pinch method with your index finger. Instead, just close it using your thumb like you would with a back lock and let the choil fall on to your finger and then close it.

[James Y]

When I unlock the comp lock, I push the lock bar with my middle finger, then use my index finger to push the spine of the blade behind the hole, and finish pushing it closed with my thumb to the middle of the blade spine. I feel I maintain more control of the knife this way, and with practice it’s every bit as fast as ‘dropping’ it shut.

Jim

[Evil D]

The Yojimbo has one of the smallest cutouts for the lock tab next to the ikuchi or Hanan. Do you think the Yojimbo would give you the same issues?

Here's about 5 minutes in whittling with a Yo 2 in hammer fist grip. Immediately I noticed that hard corner at the back of the lock cutout.



I also got out my Sliverax and gave it go, after about a 20 minute break to try to let the impression on my hand go away.



Not quite as bad but still there and would be just as bad as the Caribbean after a while.


However, these two knives are models that I really would never use in a hammer grip, the handle feels really weird and I always grip them in more of a Filipino grip, which makes a gap between your hand and the handle.







I guess I can try to use my Caribbean more this way, I would like it and use that grip more if it didn't have a thumb ramp. Even then sometimes when you're whittling away at something your thumb can get in the way.

[Ankerson]

Never was high on my list in the 1st place.

I like Liner Locks and Frame Locks personally.

I still say the Military is the best folder Spyderco makes for real use hands down.

[MichaelScott]

I would say that everything made by human hands has found its critics. It is the way of things. It doesn’t matter. One likes a thing or does not. Either way, not terribly informative.

[BobABQ]

Wow, I never had the same issues as some of the members here. I own 2 compression lock knives, a Salsa and a Lil' Native. I like the knives but I am not crazy about the compression lock itself. I find it awkward to manipulate, fortunately the Lil' Native comes with a back lock and that is what is in my pocket.

[anycal]

If I fell out of love with everything which causes me pain...

As someone who doesn't do manual labor for living, yet who likes to take on remodeling and landscaping projects around the house, or work on my cars, even with the roundest most ergonomic tools, hand pain is a reality.

Bear down cutting, even with my most ergonomic fixed blade I own, will eventually rub me raw. I love folders for their EDC, accept them for their convenience, and ultimately seek the ones which will work for me in majority of my cutting tasks. I don't think there is a perfect, do it all folder. Most of the ones I use are close enough.

[JD Spydo]

This subject has really got me thinking in a completely different way about folder "Locks". Yeah I know some of the "experts" have determined by various tests that there are some locking systems that have been proven to hold up better over the long haul. But again of all the Spyderco folders I've owned since 1995 I've never had any locking system on any Spyderco folder model ever fail me. Now isn't that ultimately what we are shooting for by selecting a certain type of folder lock?

And I've owned about every type of locking system that Spyderco and even Benchmade too for that matter has to offer and I've never had any of them fail on me>> and yes that includes the much maligned "liner locks" from 4 different companies.

I guess what I'm getting at is>> Does it really matter which locking system it is? A lot of people think I'm a nut-job for liking Spyderco's ball bearing locks as good as I do. But on the Dodo models I have I couldn't imagine any thing else on that model.

I encourage all of you to go back through the Forum Archives. When I first joined this great forum in Sept 2004 there was a thread running at that time that was launched by Sal himself. And to the best of my memory I believe the title was "Let's Talk About Locks" or it might have been " Let's Talk About Locking Systems". It ran for about 12 pages to the best of my memory. But I printed off that thread because I liked it so much. I'm hoping that one of you might be ambitious enough to find it and pull it up. I tried once but didn't have any luck. And believe me there is some real timely stuff in that thread.

[Evil D]

If I fell out of love with everything which causes me pain...

As someone who doesn't do manual labor for living, yet who likes to take on remodeling and landscaping projects around the house, or work on my cars, even with the roundest most ergonomic tools, hand pain is a reality.

Bear down cutting, even with my most ergonomic fixed blade I own, will eventually rub me raw. I love folders for their EDC, accept them for their convenience, and ultimately seek the ones which will work for me in majority of my cutting tasks. I don't think there is a perfect, do it all folder. Most of the ones I use are close enough.

Well no nothing is perfect, sometimes it's "no pain, no gain" but if you have two options and one option gives you pain and the other option does not give you pain, then you're either really stubborn or really stupid if you keep choosing the option that gives you pain if both options can achieve the same goal.

[PeaceInOurTime]

I encourage all of you to go back through the Forum Archives. When I first joined this great forum in Sept 2004 there was a thread running at that time that was launched by Sal himself. And to the best of my memory I believe the title was "Let's Talk About Locks" or it might have been " Let's Talk About Locking Systems". It ran for about 12 pages to the best of my memory. But I printed off that thread because I liked it so much. I'm hoping that one of you might be ambitious enough to find it and pull it up. I tried once but didn't have any luck. And believe me there is some real timely stuff in that thread.

This one? viewtopic.php?t=1603

[anycal]

If I fell out of love with everything which causes me pain...

As someone who doesn't do manual labor for living, yet who likes to take on remodeling and landscaping projects around the house, or work on my cars, even with the roundest most ergonomic tools, hand pain is a reality.

Bear down cutting, even with my most ergonomic fixed blade I own, will eventually rub me raw. I love folders for their EDC, accept them for their convenience, and ultimately seek the ones which will work for me in majority of my cutting tasks. I don't think there is a perfect, do it all folder. Most of the ones I use are close enough.

Well no nothing is perfect, sometimes it's "no pain, no gain" but if you have two options and one option gives you pain and the other option does not give you pain, then you're either really stubborn or really stupid if you keep choosing the option that gives you pain if both options can achieve the same goal.

Sure. It's a no-brainer choosing between those two options. To me, there are levels of hard use discomfort I am willing to tolerate if there are other positives to a design.

Look, I get that people use their knives differently. And your experience of this lock causing a hotspot is a legitimate reason for disliking it. And I really don't know what the point of my original post was. Happy hour started early for me today :D

[Evil D]

If I fell out of love with everything which causes me pain...

As someone who doesn't do manual labor for living, yet who likes to take on remodeling and landscaping projects around the house, or work on my cars, even with the roundest most ergonomic tools, hand pain is a reality.

Bear down cutting, even with my most ergonomic fixed blade I own, will eventually rub me raw. I love folders for their EDC, accept them for their convenience, and ultimately seek the ones which will work for me in majority of my cutting tasks. I don't think there is a perfect, do it all folder. Most of the ones I use are close enough.

Well no nothing is perfect, sometimes it's "no pain, no gain" but if you have two options and one option gives you pain and the other option does not give you pain, then you're either really stubborn or really stupid if you keep choosing the option that gives you pain if both options can achieve the same goal.

Sure. It's a no-brainer choosing between those two options. To me, there are levels of hard use discomfort I am willing to tolerate if there are other positives to a design.

Look, I get that people use their knives differently. And your experience of this lock causing a hotspot is a legitimate reason for disliking it. And I really don't know what the point of my original post was. Happy hour started early for me today :D

Lol ain't nothing wrong with that :D

To be clear, this is absolutely not going to stop me from carrying my Caribbean, but it's something I'll be thinking about with future purchases. If a similar knife comes out with a back lock (Rock Jumper, maybe a Rock Jumper XL?) Then I may be making a switch if other criteria is met.

The reality is even during the hard use tests I've done in my other Caribbean thread, this hot spot thing was not an issue because those cutting jobs weren't as intensive as carving. This is just one of those things I look at when considering what the ultimate EDC (for me) looks like.

[Brock O Lee]

The inevitable solution to this nasty problem is to have a well rounded collection, in different shapes, sizes, locks and steels, to cater for all possible use cases. :)