Donut wrote:Hopefully the only problems you're having is that they're making stuff TOO good. :)
The only negative things I've heard of Moki was the lack of a laser to cut the holes, which lead the Caly to need a laminated blade. Also, the detent mis-aligning on the Starmate.
The Super Blue Caly 3 and 3.5 are super high demand models and an ode to the quality product that they make.
I never understood why the Super Blue Caly wasn't laminated, though?
And I also really enjoy my Al Mar knives from Moki, as well...
From what I remember of the list of reasons to use Laminated steel, that option was to save cost or limited availability of super blue or maybe for added corrosion resistance.
bh49 wrote:
Donut wrote:
The only negative things I've heard of Moki was the lack of a laser to cut the holes, which lead the Caly to need a laminated blade. Also, the detent mis-aligning on the Starmate.
there were few more comments/observations about Moki. Gritty actions on Calys within last few years. Also Kopas, Moki had no desire to work with scale materials, which Spyderco wanted. I am not sure, considering 2015 discontinued list, what Moki is making for Spyderco now, except CF Caly 3.5 and may be Kiwi2.
Yeah, but I've gotten a few gritty Caly's and none weren't fixable with a little lube. I consider that a moot point.
-Brian A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
sal wrote:We've been working with the maker for 27 years. We'll continue.
sal
This I don't understand...they are having issues producing a cult like knife, but we will keep the design there? What is the most disappointing part of this is that the Japanese are so fickle about imported steel. This model deserves to be in the line up and deserves the same steels the PM2, Native, and Manix get. Golden would be a dream, but Taichung would be 2nd if the current maker could not get their s#!+ together and make the knife right.
It is a cultural thing I believe. Loyalty ya know. They don't operate like we do. We do business very different in this country. I think it is easier to burn bridges there. Here business isn't always personal.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
Donut wrote:
The only negative things I've heard of Moki was the lack of a laser to cut the holes, which lead the Caly to need a laminated blade. Also, the detent mis-aligning on the Starmate.
there were few more comments/observations about Moki. Gritty actions on Calys within last few years. Also Kopas, Moki had no desire to work with scale materials, which Spyderco wanted. I am not sure, considering 2015 discontinued list, what Moki is making for Spyderco now, except CF Caly 3.5 and may be Kiwi2.
Besides the Kiwi4 and Caly3.5CF I think some of the fixed blades are made by Moki but am not sure which ones. There were complaints about lock rock too.
I have barely perceptible vertical play in my Kiwi 4 (from Moki), but the visible gap is less than 0.05mm (less than a thin hair) when the blade tip is pulled down. Is this what you call lock rock?
K-390 on hand: Mule Team 17, Police 4 G-10, Endela (burlap micarta), Endela backup, Endura (canvas micarta), Straight Stretch (now blade-swapped with G-10 Stretch), Delica Wharncliffe, Dragonfly Wharncliffe, & Dragonfly Wharncliffe shorty mod Note to self: Less is more.
Well, it seems like anyone that knows anything about lock backs will say that they will typically develop a little bit of up and down play. I haven't seen much, but I don't use my lock backs very hard.
Were they out of the box with vertical play or did they develop vertical play as should be expected?
-Brian A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
I haven't had any noticeable vertical play in any on my lockbacks except the Kiwi 4, which I bought used. If you hold the blade by the hole (ie, close to the lock) you would never notice it, but it can be detected if grasped by the tip. I'm sure it would pass a QC inspection. My SB Caly 3 has been "coined" a tiny bit on both sides and has no play at all. I may sometime attempt to coin the Kiwi just to see if I can. I'm sure it's hard to have zero play in the Kiwi because the lock surfaces are so tiny compared to the blade length.
K-390 on hand: Mule Team 17, Police 4 G-10, Endela (burlap micarta), Endela backup, Endura (canvas micarta), Straight Stretch (now blade-swapped with G-10 Stretch), Delica Wharncliffe, Dragonfly Wharncliffe, & Dragonfly Wharncliffe shorty mod Note to self: Less is more.
DougC-3 wrote:I haven't had any noticeable vertical play in any on my lockbacks except the Kiwi 4, which I bought used. If you hold the blade by the hole (ie, close to the lock) you would never notice it, but it can be detected if grasped by the tip. I'm sure it would pass a QC inspection. My SB Caly 3 has been "coined" a tiny bit on both sides and has no play at all. I may sometime attempt to coin the Kiwi just to see if I can. I'm sure it's hard to have zero play in the Kiwi because the lock surfaces are so tiny compared to the blade length.
DougC-3 wrote:I haven't had any noticeable vertical play in any on my lockbacks except the Kiwi 4, which I bought used. If you hold the blade by the hole (ie, close to the lock) you would never notice it, but it can be detected if grasped by the tip. I'm sure it would pass a QC inspection. My SB Caly 3 has been "coined" a tiny bit on both sides and has no play at all. I may sometime attempt to coin the Kiwi just to see if I can. I'm sure it's hard to have zero play in the Kiwi because the lock surfaces are so tiny compared to the blade length.
What is "coined"?
Some sort of tiny punch, drift, or whatever is used to make tiny indentations in the sides of the lockbar to extend the lockface out a minuscule amount, tightening the lockup a bit.
(If she'd known she was in for a photo session, she'd probably have cleaned up a bit )
For me a large part of the appeal of these knives is the long tradition of hand-crafting techniques involved. I'm sure some computer controlled machine could spit out knives made to closer tolerances but it wouldn't be the same to me.
Last edited by DougC-3 on Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
K-390 on hand: Mule Team 17, Police 4 G-10, Endela (burlap micarta), Endela backup, Endura (canvas micarta), Straight Stretch (now blade-swapped with G-10 Stretch), Delica Wharncliffe, Dragonfly Wharncliffe, & Dragonfly Wharncliffe shorty mod Note to self: Less is more.
Every one of my Mokis are peened like that and they all have play. I think peening is just how moki fits their locks. You can peen any back lock like that to take play out of it.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
sal wrote:
What we do in Golden with our lock-backs is harder to do than it might appear. We're holding 2-10/1000".
sal
Very impressive.
This is coming from ex QA manager, who spend 16 years in fairy large machine shop. In general .0002" is not a production tolerance, which you can consistently hold. In general, this is a tolerance for toolmaker's jobs.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
DougC-3 wrote:I haven't had any noticeable vertical play in any on my lockbacks except the Kiwi 4, which I bought used. If you hold the blade by the hole (ie, close to the lock) you would never notice it, but it can be detected if grasped by the tip. I'm sure it would pass a QC inspection. My SB Caly 3 has been "coined" a tiny bit on both sides and has no play at all. I may sometime attempt to coin the Kiwi just to see if I can. I'm sure it's hard to have zero play in the Kiwi because the lock surfaces are so tiny compared to the blade length.
What is "coined"?
Some sort of tiny punch, drift, or whatever is used to make tiny indentations in the sides of the lockbar to extend the lockface out a minuscule amount, tightening the lockup a bit.
(If she'd known she was in for a photo session, she'd probably have cleaned up a bit )
For me a large part of the appeal of these knives is the long tradition of hand-crafting techniques involved. I'm sure some computer controlled machine could spit out knives made to closer tolerances but it wouldn't be the same to me.
27 year relationships are rare indeed and I'm glad it's recognized and valued. We are talking about one of the worlds most well respected cutlery manufacturers. Along with their production capacity you get their relationship with the steel manufacturers and working relationship with engineers and metallurgists and heat treaters. Underrated but valuable resources especially when it's no longer available. I'd always try to give them a fair shake at bids as well as working with them during times of changes. They are probably having grandchildren of the first generation Spyderco worked with entering the job and learning. It takes time and experience which can only be learned hands on with repetition in a skilled job like that. Assembly line work with drop in parts differs from hand fitting and finishing a product. I got to learn that lesson on revolvers.
I'd guess setting up and enlarging the Golden plant and capacity gives good perspective on this.
)
