Spyderco Forums

Am I the only one who believes that if these steel production companies have a steel with cutlery as a noted purpose that they should stay away from equating a new steel to 440C or D2? I know these are well known but it always leads to people think "eh, I don't want another 440C or D2" even when the steel acts completely different.

Why not try to keep up with current trending steels? "Here we have a steel that's more corrosion resistant than 3V, has the toughness of A2, and the edge retention of Elmax." Sounds enticing right? That's PSF27. Instead people disregarded it because it was mentioned as being another D2.

I threw a statement out about the steel in the MT 20 being like D2 to see if someone would say, no it's more like this or that. No one bit.

The problem is, just consider what percentage of people will read/understand comparisons to non-stock steels. As well a steel company can't say something like "has the toughness of A2 or the edge retention of Elmax" . There are laws against unjustified promotion unless it is clear it isn't mean to be taken seriously, i.e., bill yourself as "The World's Most Dangerous Man".

It is obvious that Ken Shamrock isn't making an actual quantified statement. However steel companies would be held to rigorous standards and if they made such claims they could easily be held to task. Making statements which are not clearly defined and well supported by experiment are actually illegal in many countries, very much so in Canada and the US for example.

What I would like to see is more actual materials data, not vague claims.

I agree but I'm talking about marketing steel. Seems like equating them to known "mediocre" steels hurts more than helps. I think they shouldn't do it and as you say, let the properties of the steel and the composition itself stand up to do the talking. But if comparisons are going to be made, then compare them to what's currently hot in the market rather than what's been surpassed by years.

D2 is one of the most respected tool steels, it is an extremely high wear, high compressive strength cold work steels. Being able to match D2 in either of these respects sets a decent standard.

However pure marketing by companies and such, then yes, I would agree that while giving the impression this is a D2-like steel might not be the best approach because of the perception that the duper steels are many times greater.

I hope it's not really that hard for you to agree without further comment in real life.

You know what I mean, you agree with what I said, but you feel the need to take what was said and twist it to make it sound like you said something different.

Im currently on the road on my iphone. Cannot read entire thread, bad service. What steel(s) are being called mediocre here, D2?

FCM415 wrote:What steel(s) are being called mediocre here, D2?

Yes, part of what I contested.

Cliff Stamp wrote:

FCM415 wrote:What steel(s) are being called mediocre here, D2?

Yes, part of what I contested.

Hehe...You started "contesting" before that word was used. I believe Bodog was talking more about popular perception. I don't think he was actually proposing that d2 should be labeled a mediocre steel. That's not how I read it anyway.

Fwiw, I agree that they could do a better job with their marketing.

FCM415 wrote:Im currently on the road on my iphone. Cannot read entire thread, bad service. What steel(s) are being called mediocre here, D2?

I put D2 in quotes as mediocre. I don't believe there are bad steels as long as they're made with some quality control. I was referring to the idea that because the steel has been out for awhile and has been thrown around many, many times that it's less than good. And more to the point that because people have heard D2 and 440C so many time that using them as a performance standard turns people off.


"This steel has the same composition as D2 but is spray formed."

"Eh, I don't need another D2."

"But it's performance is much, much better than regular D2."

"Eh. I'll pass."


________________________________________


"This steel is as tough as A2, is more corrosion resistant than 3V, and has the edge retention of elmax."

"Oh, man, where do I sign up for this super steel?"

"But it has the same composition as D2."

"I don't care, this steel sounds fantastic!"

This is very interesting and informative, but, FCM415, please keep at least one eye on the road and one hand on the wheel :eek: :rolleyes:


... or maybe you didn't mean literally on the road at this particular moment...

Hehe, Im actually waiting for my connection flight in Korea. On the road as in not at home on a trip sorry.

Yeah all I loaded was the last page. Subsequent posts have made things clearer now. I still love D2, it was great for me then, still great now.

I dunno, I'm not entirely sick of D2 yet. I like the actual stuff (CPM) on a Kershaw I have. I love my MT19. Cruwear and XHP have also been fantastic in my experience. I actually gotta admire the stuff because it inspired all these other nice alloys, some of which are becoming pretty popular themselves. That settles it. MT20, here I come!

It's funny, I've kind of talked myself into buying one. I don't believe I'll see much of a difference between the MT20 and the MT19 except for the amount of corrosion resistance. Isn't that how all experiments start though?

"I have this, I think it's going to do this, now let me test it and find out."

I sort of wanted to get all the mules that dropped since I started with spydies (3 so far) but I'm needing to lay by bit of money for upcoming folders. It's very tempting because the mule plus a couple of USN Ladybugs, or one Ladybug and two clips, etc, would get it over the $150 required for free postage. If money was no object, or course I'd snap one up.

:spyder: Bump :spyder:

I was just wondering how many ordered the MT20 today...

Anyone know what the hardness target is supposed to be for this one?

I have to pass on this one, at least for now. I just bought a Chinook 1 (used), a green Worker (new), and a purple Dragonfly (new). Also, this Mule doesn't seem very different from the MT19, at least in terms of a difference that I could notice. (Cliff don't attack me.) Finally, if I had the $80 to spend right now, I would pick up two more USN LBHBs, because I think that those will become far more collectable than another Mule.

I think that the mention of some of the more exotic mules that are coming soon may be encouraging people to hold off. While I will be passing on the Maxamet I also think it may sell out fast like the S110v mules did. I have too many folders on the wish list and do not have a lot of need for another mule. I have a 52100, M4 and S110V mule already so I have a good variety as it is and it would be hard to sell me on getting another fixed blade that is the same shape as three I already have. I would get more use out of the Bradley Bowie than another mule.

bearfacedkiller wrote:I think that the mention of some of the more exotic mules that are coming soon may be encouraging people to hold off.

True in my case, I'm gonna wait for the 20cv for my first mule.

I picked up two yesterday. Starting on scales today, probably going to use Purpleheart. Hoping it will come out as good as the previous 5...