s35vn compared to s30v?

[bh49]

I want to like CRK. I really do. But I have yet to find one that says "buy me" the way Spydies do .
But, back on topic, S35VN would never keep me from buying a knife after my experience with my Native 5.
Ken

+1 on both accounts.
I handled CRK knives on knife shows. It didn't click for me.
I carried S35N Native5 for a while and was absolutely satisfied with edge retention and sharpening. If I like the knife, S35N would never stop me from buying it. I cannot say that I prefer S53N to S30V or opposite.

IIRC S35VN got some bad reviews at one point.

I can recall bad review only from CrimsonTideShooter. From my professional point of view the review was purely subjective and based only on emotions instead of data. So from engineering point of view can be disregarded.

I bought a Native 5 kind of in spite of the steel, rather than because of it.

I am glad that you did.
How many days left until you put Forum Native is you hand? :) I am blown away with this knife. :) Cannot wait to hear from you.

[JNewell]

But, back on topic, S35VN would never keep me from buying a knife after my experience with my Native 5.

I bought a Native 5 kind of in spite of the steel, rather than because of it. But now I know I like it just fine.

I carried S35N Native5 for a while and was absolutely satisfied with edge retention and sharpening. If I like the knife, S35N would never stop me from buying it. I cannot say that I prefer S53N to S30V or opposite.

If we are talking about and buying and using quality knives from companies that really 'do' knives right (like Spyderco, but there are several others), if the design and size work for you, there is a practical argument for choosing the knife almost without regard to whether it's VG-10 or S30V or 154CM or even M390 or CPM-M4 or another steel. Will M390 outperform VG-10? Sure, objectively, it's going to outperform a VG-10 blade. In practical terns us the VG-10 blade likely to be satisfactory? Very likely, for all but the most demanding uses.

Or, to put it differently, in many cases you can buy on the basis of who made the knife and its basic design attributes and not get tied up in knots trying to draw relatively fine distinctions based on lab or other careful test results. :) :spyder:

[bh49]

Or, to put it differently, in many cases you can buy on the basis of who made the knife and its basic design attributes and not get tied up in knots trying to draw relatively fine distinctions based on lab or other careful test results. :) :spyder:

absolutely.

[dragonram7]

I haven't been to impressed with S35VN. The crk test with the steel demonstrated a warping while cutting manila rope. The S30V performs well if heat treated correctly. I was excited about the zt 550 with S35VN. However, I decided to stick with S30V and elmax.

[chuck_roxas45]

I haven't been to impressed with S35VN. The crk test with the steel demonstrated a warping while cutting manila rope. The S30V performs well if heat treated correctly. I was excited about the zt 550 with S35VN. However, I decided to stick with S30V and elmax.

How many tests were done? And who did them?

[Clip]

How many tests were done? And who did them?

I've only heard tales of this test so I'll pass them on an make the rumors grow even larger.

I heard someone took a Sebenza and cut a Manila rope and the edge rolled so bad it looked like the gutter on a house. This obviously means that Reeve doesn't know how to make knives and probably doesn't deserve Blade's manufacturing award for so many years, and Crucible makes crap steel.

Then again, I'm sure every knife maker has a bad heat treat once in a while. It's how they remedy the situation that matters.

[chuck_roxas45]

I've only heard tales of this test so I'll pass them on an make the rumors grow even larger.

I heard someone took a Sebenza and cut a Manila rope and the edge rolled so bad it looked like the gutter on a house. This obviously means that Reeve doesn't know how to make knives and probably doesn't deserve Blade's manufacturing award for so many years, and Crucible makes crap steel.

Then again, I'm sure every knife maker has a bad heat treat once in a while. It's how they remedy the situation that matters.

Didn't that same tester test an S35VN native too? With the same results, that nobody else could duplicate?

[Clip]

Didn't that same tester test an S35VN native too? With the same results, that nobody else could duplicate?

I found pictures of his test:

[chuck_roxas45]

I found pictures of his test:

Bahahaha!

[kbuzbee]

How many days left until you put Forum Native is you hand? :) I am blown away with this knife. :) Cannot wait to hear from you.

Thursday, brother. Counting the minutes!

Ken

[Blerv]

Didn't that same tester test an S35VN native too? With the same results, that nobody else could duplicate?

Edit: snarky response unnecessary

[senorsquare]

IIRC S35VN got some bad reviews at one point those reviews may well stop someone from buying a knife in the future that they otherwise would have liked.

Ken

I have read some discussions all about how CRK runs their heat treat a little softer than others in order to make it easier for their customers to sharpen their knives. I think this may be where S35VN got its bad rap. I think I even recall watching an interview with Chris Reeve where he said something to the effect of: "what good does it do to give my customers a super hard steel if they can't sharpen the **** thing." So there is that, and I could be remembering it all wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Whatever.

I've had a Native 5 with S35VN that I was thoroughly pleased with and I am currently EDC-ing an S35VN para 2 and I've been quite happy with it as well. I probably like S35VN a little better than S30V and the reason may only be that it has more alphabet on the blade. It's got 5N more!!

Honestly, both steels have both served me well and I doubt the average user would see much of a much of a difference between the two. They both take an edge easy enough and hold it reasonably well and touch up pretty quickly. The S35VN has also seemed a little less prone to edge damage and I know this because I cut some cardboard once and also read it in a magazine.

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Didn't that same tester test an S35VN native too? With the same results, that nobody else could duplicate?

No one tried to duplicate...so yeah. Lol

I know you guys refuse to think that there's any possible way that anything I do has any merit, but all I did was use the knife. I used a knife, on camera, and it performed terribly. I don't see anyone else doing the same.

All I see is the same "steel X or Y has done great for me!!" No one is willing to SHOW that the knife does well for them. Until someone will nut up and SHOW how well it does, I laugh at your point of view just like you scoff at mine. :)



I so, SO don't want to discuss whether or not anyone thinks my "tests" are worth anything. What I will discuss (and find quite amusing) is that the people who are most vocally against me and my videos are the same people who most likely aren't in a position to evaluate steel performance.

After all, it's hard to know how a steel will perform if your main use is stabbing it into a tree, laying it on a flower, or cutting your pizza for pictures. :rolleyes:


The group that says "I've never had a problem with steel X or Y" is the same group who says, "I haven't had to sharpen my XXX in over a year!" You just aren't cutting enough to see the difference between K390 and 420j2. ANY steel will do "great" against envelopes and apples.

[bh49]

Thursday, brother. Counting the minutes!
Ken

Just let me know your impressions.

[bh49]

No one tried to duplicate.
I don't see anyone else doing the same.

Did you ever wonder why?

What I will discuss is that the people who are most vocally against me and my videos are the same people who most likely aren't in a position to evaluate steel performance.

I consider your video in some cases misleading at the best. I have Master degree in ME. I am quality professional with more than 20 years of experience. About 4 years in metrology of one of major US corporation and 16 in quality engineering and management. Design of experiment was my routine for several years as well as various variability studies. So I think that I know a thing or two about testing.

The group that says "I've never had a problem with steel X or Y" is the same group who says, "I haven't had to sharpen my XXX in over a year!" You just aren't cutting enough to see the difference between K390 and 420j2.

I never tested knives or steels. The one of reasons that I know that in my home environment I cannot do valid test. Most likely I use knife less than many of other user, but if I considering my routine I need to sharpen my S35V blade every week and with the same or about the same use S110V every 3-4 weeks, I can see a difference.

ANY steel will do "great" against envelopes

Really? Not any after a dozen of cardboard boxes.

[w3tnz]

I can't remember the last time I had to cut some manilla rope into hundreds of pieces, but in my day to day, cutting things such as soft plastics, rubber, cable sheathing, foam, tape, cardboard, the odd staple, plants, my fingers etc, I have found crk s35vn slightly better suited to my uses than spyderco s30v.

I don't have any qualifications or structured testing results to back this up, I don't even have 2 knives of a fair comparison, but under 'normal use' I prefer the softer, tougher blade that takes less edge damage and is easier to maintain. If I only have to spend 5 minutes a week getting it back to shaving sharp and easily go for several weeks, months with a "working edge" I'm not complaining about the edge retention either.

ymmv, imo, bbq, etc.

[CrimsonTideShooter]

I can't remember the last time I had to cut some manilla rope into hundreds of pieces, but in my day to day, cutting things such as cardboard, soft plastics, rubber, cable sheathing, foam, tape, cardboard, the odd staple, plants, my fingers etc, I have found crk s35vn slightly better suited to my uses than spyderco s30v.

I don't have any qualifications or structured testing results to back this up, I don't even have 2 knives of a fair comparison, but under 'normal use' I prefer the softer, tougher blade that takes less edge damage and is easier to maintain. If I only have to spend 5 minutes a week getting it back to shaving sharp I'm not complaining about the edge retention either.

ymmv, imo, bbq, etc.

In metallurgy, softer does not = tougher.


Common misconception (heavily perpetuated) that has done a lot of damage to the industry. Softer DOES NOT equal tougher.

Softness does equal propensity for edge damage and deformation, though.

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Did you ever wonder why?
I consider your video in some cases misleading at the best. I have Master degree in ME. I am quality professional with more than 20 years of experience. About 4 years in metrology of one of major US corporation and 16 in quality engineering and management. Design of experiment was my routine for several years as well as various variability studies. So I think that I know a thing or two about testing.

I never tested knives or steels. The one of reasons that I know that in my home environment I cannot do valid test. Most likely I use knife less than many of other user, but if I considering my routine I need to sharpen my S35V blade every week and with the same or about the same use S110V every 3-4 weeks, I can see a difference.

Really? Not any after a dozen of cardboard boxes.

Throwing around a degree is cool and all, but it all just sounds like excuses to me.

Bottom line, no one has to take ANY stock in the cut demos I do. I could care less, because I did the cutting and I know what happened. What I take offense to is the people who like to say that my results are invalid, yet they are unwilling to do ANY cutting on video to show that my results are invalid. You can cite degrees and provide excuses all day, but it still doesn't provide ANY evidence to support the idea that my videos are invalid.


You'd think that after all this time at least someone would have made ONE video showing their performing better than mine...but nope - not a one. Not a single video showing a Sebenza in S35VN actually staying sharp after some cutting on rope. I have my own ideas why that is.


Oh, and the "I don't find myself cutting rope all that often" excuse is laughable. If you're very familiar with testing then you should know that CONSISTENCY is highly important. Rope is about the only very consistent thing I can get my hands on. Cardboard is about the least consistent...



The dog pile effect is huge on these forums. There are numerous people who have experienced the same things that I have that have contacted me personally, but they won't DARE post about it because they've seen the heat I've taken. That's the worst part about all of this. The dog piling is so severe that people with information to share, won't, because of the figure heads on the knife forums will start a hate fest.

[w3tnz]

In metallurgy, softer does not = tougher.


Common misconception (heavily perpetuated) that has done a lot of damage to the industry. Softer DOES NOT equal tougher.

Softness does equal propensity for edge damage and deformation, though.

I thought s35vn was considered a tougher steel than s30v on its on merits, hardness aside. But like I said, I don't have the qualifications to talk about this kind of stuff I just use my knives to cut things.

[CrimsonTideShooter]

It is considered to be tougher, solely based on alloy content - yes. :)