Has anyone here used their Civilian in self defense?

[Spook410]

I really doubt anybody in this thread is an 'undercover agent entering into situations'.

If you need a self defense tool, carry a firearm. If you can't, carry mace.

[wrdwrght]

Ok, would you rather fight someone with a knife or the same person with no knife?

Without a knife, thanks, if fight I must. Attacking with my own knife, a skill I do not possess, would only divert me from dealing with my attacker's threats, from trying to disarm him or turn his knife against him.

[Evil D]

I have never used my Civilian for SD, but I can tell you something. I didn't realize just how lethal looking it is until I actually held it in my hand. Pictures just don't convey the message.

Exactly.


I didn't read any more of this thread than this, but this can't be overstated. The Civi is an absolute terror to hold. It's the only knife i've ever held in my life that i really honestly felt uncomfortable handling. It's a knife that pulling out and flashing is likely enough to end a confrontation. It's also a knife that spells one intent and one intent only, and you'll need OJ's defense team to get you off if you go to court with it because it's so obvious how lethal the blade was designed to be. I'd imagine if a police officer saw you carrying one, even in a county/state with no blade length laws, you'd either get it confiscated or arrested. It's a knife that i really like, but will never own because i have zero use for.

[chuck_roxas45]

Without a knife, thanks, if fight I must. Attacking with my own knife, a skill I do not possess, would only divert me from dealing with my attacker's threats, from trying to disarm him or turn his knife against him.

So why is an aggressor any different? On the other hand, if it's so easy to take away a knife from a knife wielder, why do you prefer to fight someone without a knife?

[wrdwrght]

So why is an aggressor any different? On the other hand, if it's so easy to take away a knife from a knife wielder, why do you prefer to fight someone without a knife?

You have twisted the meaning of my words. Bully someone else.

[KardinalSyn]

It is clear that some of you prefer PE blades to SE for SD. However, that to me means that stabbing is preferred over pull cuts in the context of the Civilian which is not meant to stab.

It is always interesting to read individual comments on a topic such as this. I look forward to more comments.

[Bladekeeper]

Those whom are in a position to be able to confidently and adeptly use a knife in self defence are far fewer than the amount claiming to do so.
To use the civilian and utilise its design aqquires specialist levels of skill few posses eg stabbing is not what this blade was designed for.
Therefore the likely hood somebody who could use it as a sd weapon would in all likely hood would be able to eliminate the threat by other means or another knife.

[Pinetreebbs]

You have twisted the meaning of my words. Bully someone else.

I think Chuck is giving the you the contrarian argument or opposing view to get you to think about your answer. When he asked, "Ok, would you rather fight someone with a knife or the same person with no knife?" he was talking about someone attacking you. You responded, "Without a knife, thanks, if fight I must." All things being equal, if having a knife is truly a disadvantage for you, why wouldn't you wish the same disadvantage on your aggressor? Point; perhaps it is not really such a disadvantage to be the one with a knife, even without training.

As for bullying, IMO, he was asking a reasonable question, I know, Chuck and I have had some good and lively discussions about sprint runs and speculators. :)

[chuck_roxas45]

I think Chuck he is giving the you the contrarian argument or opposing view to get you to think about your answer. When he asked, "Ok, would you rather fight someone with a knife or the same person with no knife?" he was talking about someone attacking you. You responded, "Without a knife, thanks, if fight I must." All things being equal, if having a knife is truly a disadvantage for you, why wouldn't you wish the same disadvantage on your aggressor? Point; perhaps it is not really such a disadvantage to be the one with a knife, even without training.

As for bullying, IMO, he was asking a reasonable question, I know, Chuck and I have had some good and lively discussions about sprint runs and speculators. :)

Thanks Pinetreebs, apparently it is now bullying to ask someone to clarify his statements. Yeh, we have had our share of lively discussions but nobody was bullying anybody and we each just felt strongly about our positions.

You have twisted the meaning of my words. Bully someone else.

I see what you're doing. It's called going off on a tangent. :p

"Attempting to support one proposition or hide its weakness by arguing for a different one entirely, or dodging the main argument by going off on a tangent. This fallacy is committed when someone introduces irrelevant material to the issue being discussed, so that everyone's attention is diverted away from the points made, towards a different conclusion, in order to "win" the argument."

[SolidState]

Calling someone out on weak rhetoric isn't bullying, and Chuck isn't a bully. He can be a bit forward, but he doesn't actively intimidate people into compliance.

A civilian has every cue to any animal that it is out to rend flesh. In some ways, it is a beautiful example of how to design something to inspire visceral fear in an attacking entity, be it human or animal.

[BAL]

I am on Chuck's point on this one as well. Nothing against wrdwrght or anyone else.
I think that it is an interesting topic. But I do find it funny that people have commented
that they wouldn"t want ot use a knife as a defense weapon. Sometimes that is all that
you might have.

There are a few places, such as my place of employment, where I can't carry. I have a
doctor appt this afternoon (broken finger) and can't carry. What if somethign happens to
and from these places. Or a car jacking. No one ever thinks that it could happen to them.

That's exactly what every person that has ever had anything happen to them thought,
BEFORE it actually happened. I have been a part of two attempted car jackings, both
in a car wash and one close up stolen car atttempt in a Walmart parking lot.

If you say that you don't or won't use a knife as a defense tool, think about this.
If you had to fight for your life in a bad situation and facing you was two different
possibilities. Two exactly built bad guys, one standing there unarmed and the other
standing therE with knife in hand. Which are you going to choose.

So don't say that there isn't an advantage to having a knife. You don't have to use it,
but it is your choice. And if a real life situation presents itself, you might be damned
glad that you have something more than your bare hands.

[JT]

A little off topic, and you can call me names, but the youtube video posted earlier is an illegal ripoff from James Keating's DVD,and I think it should not be posted here. As a courtesy to Mr. Keating would moderator remove it from this forum?
This is a Spyderco forum, and Mr. Keating is one of the Spyderco collaborators... and IMHO one of the good guys. Yes I know that anyone can post anything on the internet or youtube, but please guys, not here. You can get the DVD from the man himself...

[Evil D]

BAL,

The problem is, in the law's eyes you don't have a right to stab someone just because they're car jacking you, and even if they put a gun to your head you'll have a really hard time defending your action in court. Even if they shoot you, you'll have a really hard time defending your actions in court. The judicial system wants you to lay down and yell for help, plain and simple. I think this is why some people say they wouldn't want to use a knife for self defense. Personally, they can take my car and kick my *** before i kill someone and spend life behind bars for it. My version of knife self defense is more along the lines of dogs and other random animals.

[Blerv]

BAL,

The problem is, in the law's eyes you don't have a right to stab someone just because they're car jacking you, and even if they put a gun to your head you'll have a really hard time defending your action in court. Even if they shoot you, you'll have a really hard time defending your actions in court. The judicial system wants you to lay down and yell for help, plain and simple. I think this is why some people say they wouldn't want to use a knife for self defense. Personally, they can take my car and kick my *** before i kill someone and spend life behind bars for it. My version of knife self defense is more along the lines of dogs and other random animals.

Self-defense is one of those things that people are predisposed to take a mile if you offer an inch.

You are always able to offer more resistance physically than with tools. While a Spyderco Civilian is a fantastic tool there is an art to throwing a solid Muay elbow. Honestly the elbow is faster and probably has a more dramatic physiological effect.

There is a "what if?" for everything in life. You don't build a basketball team around cross-court lobbing 3 pointers.

[bonesmalones]

It looks like it'd be a really nice back scratcher. Just sayin'...

[IG-88]

A little off topic, and you can call me names, but the youtube video posted earlier is an illegal ripoff from James Keating's DVD,and I think it should not be posted here. As a courtesy to Mr. Keating would moderator remove it from this forum?
This is a Spyderco forum, and Mr. Keating is one of the Spyderco collaborators... and IMHO one of the good guys. Yes I know that anyone can post anything on the internet or youtube, but please guys, not here. You can get the DVD from the man himself...

You are 100% right. I hadn't read the comment underneat the video, my mistake! I removed the link to the youtube movie!

[Bladekeeper]

Here in the uk we don't have the edc or gun laws afforded to you in the USA yet our government has passed a legislation that allows lethal force if confronted by a burglar.
I thought there were laws in some states where if your life is threatened lethal force can be used is this correct or wrong just curious that a country where concealed firearm permits are issued that the use of lethal force is an issue that would be against you in the court system .
The questions are just of my interest no judgement meant

[gaj999]

I thought there were laws in some states where if your life is threatened lethal force can be used is this correct or wrong just curious that a country where concealed firearm permits are issued that the use of lethal force is an issue that would be against you in the court system

Colorado has a "make my day" law where you can legally defend yourself from an intruder in your home using lethal force. If it happens to me, I won't be grabbing for a knife in my pocket if there's anything resembling a club within reach.

Gordon

[BAL]

BAL,

The problem is, in the law's eyes you don't have a right to stab someone just because they're car jacking you, and even if they put a gun to your head you'll have a really hard time defending your action in court. Even if they shoot you, you'll have a really hard time defending your actions in court. The judicial system wants you to lay down and yell for help, plain and simple. I think this is why some people say they wouldn't want to use a knife for self defense. Personally, they can take my car and kick my *** before i kill someone and spend life behind bars for it. My version of knife self defense is more along the lines of dogs and other random animals.

Hey David. Laws are funny and that's why lawyers are plentiful in our land. However,
you DO have a right to defend yourself and if you can prove that you life was in
imminent danger and that the perpetrator had intent to do you bodily injury then
you have the right to use lethal force to defend yourself. Again, the other side
can try to prove differently, and hey they might win. We all know how that goes.

This is where it can be a disadvantage for the good guy to have a self defense
weapon such as a Civilian, Warrior, machete etc.

Also if a person yells hey I am going to kill you and then walks away, isn't showing
imminent danger to you. On the other side if he sticks a toy gun to your head and
yells, I am going to kill you, you would have the right to use lethal force, provided
you didn't know that it was a toy.

Again, anytime there is a loss of life in a situation, family members can have their
day in court and anything can happen. David, I respect you and your opinion, I just
slightly disagree with it.

Perhaps I am tainted by my history in this area, but I will defend myself and protect
my family however I have to. If someone stick a knife against my body or a gun to
my head, I will react accordingly. No need to be Johnny BA, but I have my mind
clear and am prepared to take a life if they present a clear attempt to take mine.

Interesting and important topic. Very important.

[KardinalSyn]

Just to note that the civilian was intended for people with basic motor skills, who were not formally trained in defensive knife techniques.

I should have said that LEOs should chime in with their views too on the initial post. I remembered only now.