Thanks for the pic Kyle. I appreciate it.
Also I do have the SM, haven't used it much and need to learn to use it. I wasn't sure it could fix this one. I do have all the stones for it too (UF and diamond). I figured i would need the edge pro or something similar. Thanks again.
Talk to you guys in about 8 hrs or so; I need to get some sleep...3 am now
Sprints, Limiteds, exclusives; run of bad luck
CF Balance, CF Caly3 ZDP, Caly 3.5 SB, CAT 440C, Chaparral, Orange Jigged Damascus Delica, Blue Jigged Damascus Delica, BRG Delica ZDP(SOON TO BE G-10!), FG G-10 DragonFly, Gayle Bradley, 2012 Jester, H1 Ladybug Salt Hawkbill w/G-10 scales, Tan Manix 2 M4, MoonGlow Manix 2, C22CF Michael Walker, BRN Millie XHP, Native 5, PM2, All Black PM2, Gray PM2 20CP, Blue PM2 M390, Sage 1, Sage 2, Sage 4, Terzuola, CF Stretch ZDP, UKPK Drop Point
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The Deacon
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Probably a number of factors at work here.
As noted, and for the reasons noted, Sprints tend to have more minor F&F issues than regular production knives. That's not meant as an excuse, just as a fact that's unlikely to change.
Being late to the party does increase your risk of getting less than perfect knife. Dealers have been known to resell knives that someone else returned, or you may simply be getting the one that kept getting put back on the shelf when customers asked them to pick out a good one for them.
Unrealistic expectations, especially regarding how perfect edge grinds should be, since Spyderco knives are all sharpened by hand with power grinders.
Unfamiliarity with what's normal. Caly 3 and 3.5 are made by Moki, who make some of the finest Japanese Spyderco models. AFAIK, they do not use washers on any of them.
Failure to do one's homework. Checking the forums can often give you at least some idea of the issues a given knife might have, and the relative risk it will have them.
Plain old bad luck. In spite of all of the above, there are still some specimens of even the most issue prone Sprints that will please almost any collector.
As noted, and for the reasons noted, Sprints tend to have more minor F&F issues than regular production knives. That's not meant as an excuse, just as a fact that's unlikely to change.
Being late to the party does increase your risk of getting less than perfect knife. Dealers have been known to resell knives that someone else returned, or you may simply be getting the one that kept getting put back on the shelf when customers asked them to pick out a good one for them.
Unrealistic expectations, especially regarding how perfect edge grinds should be, since Spyderco knives are all sharpened by hand with power grinders.
Unfamiliarity with what's normal. Caly 3 and 3.5 are made by Moki, who make some of the finest Japanese Spyderco models. AFAIK, they do not use washers on any of them.
Failure to do one's homework. Checking the forums can often give you at least some idea of the issues a given knife might have, and the relative risk it will have them.
Plain old bad luck. In spite of all of the above, there are still some specimens of even the most issue prone Sprints that will please almost any collector.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
Ditto - Deacon has a good answer that's quite plausible. I personally have not really seen any issues, but I may not be looking as close as you are. I'll admit I couldn't see most of the issues you were illustrating in the pictures, but I suspect they are there. You have a more trained and focussed eye on those issues. I suspect you'll find the knives function well, however. I, as many others are, am very impressed with all of my Spyderco knives and the materials they use.
You may very well be approaching the need for a few good custom knives that are quite the show pieces. I agree they can be amazing. I tend more towards the "working mans" knife, so Spyderco blows away my expectations without destroying my pocket book. Granted they are still expensive and if I was a "smart working man", I'd be buying their "run of the mill" product, which is still far superior to other knives in that price range, 100% as functional as the sprints and arguably last as long. But I'm not so smart and the Sprint bug s bit me! :D
You may very well be approaching the need for a few good custom knives that are quite the show pieces. I agree they can be amazing. I tend more towards the "working mans" knife, so Spyderco blows away my expectations without destroying my pocket book. Granted they are still expensive and if I was a "smart working man", I'd be buying their "run of the mill" product, which is still far superior to other knives in that price range, 100% as functional as the sprints and arguably last as long. But I'm not so smart and the Sprint bug s bit me! :D
Certainly I agree it is a let-down when a new knife doesn't meet expectations. I had a Byrd Wings that had a defective lock on one of the blades -- it "clicked" and sounded like it was locked, but the liner lock wasn't actually keeping it locked. I sent it to Spyderco and they sent me a new one, but I was out the shipping cost. Minor issue, and many other companies handle warranty in the same way.
On the other hand, when the cruware mules were recalled, they refunded me the return shipping even though I didn't ask them to.
An uneven grind, while troublesome, at least *can* be fixed by the user. My Temperace 2 came with a *very* uneven grind about the last two inches toward the tip, and this was not an inexpensive knife either. I didn't want to risk removing too much material with a grinder, so I fixed it by hand with the SharpMaker and diamond rods, but it did take a *lot* of time, and I still don't have it perfect, but functional. I know Spyderco will sharpen blades for free, but then you have to pay for shipping to them, and $5 for return shipping, and be without the knife for the few weeks it might take.
An off-center blade, or one that has play *in the closed position* just doesn't bother me as long as it doesn't rub the liner, but I would be bothered if it rubbed the liner, or if the blade edge hits the back spacer, dulling it. I plan on carrying and using most of my knives, so I consider them "users", not investments, which reduces the pain of any minor cosmetic flaws :) .
My Michael Walker CF does have some tiny chips in the CF near the screw holes, but I was aware of this common complaint when I ordered it, and I am *so* glad I didn't let that stop me from buying one when they were easily available, I really have enjoyed mine.
So not saying you were being too picky, it can be frustrating when the knife doesn't meet your expectations, especially when it is a more expensive/highly sought after knife, and maybe you have had a run of bad luck :) . I myself don't own any Sebenza's or customs (yet! :D ) to compare them to, but there are a few Spyderco models that I have paid more money for that I ever would have believed a couple of years ago.
On the other hand, when the cruware mules were recalled, they refunded me the return shipping even though I didn't ask them to.
An uneven grind, while troublesome, at least *can* be fixed by the user. My Temperace 2 came with a *very* uneven grind about the last two inches toward the tip, and this was not an inexpensive knife either. I didn't want to risk removing too much material with a grinder, so I fixed it by hand with the SharpMaker and diamond rods, but it did take a *lot* of time, and I still don't have it perfect, but functional. I know Spyderco will sharpen blades for free, but then you have to pay for shipping to them, and $5 for return shipping, and be without the knife for the few weeks it might take.
An off-center blade, or one that has play *in the closed position* just doesn't bother me as long as it doesn't rub the liner, but I would be bothered if it rubbed the liner, or if the blade edge hits the back spacer, dulling it. I plan on carrying and using most of my knives, so I consider them "users", not investments, which reduces the pain of any minor cosmetic flaws :) .
My Michael Walker CF does have some tiny chips in the CF near the screw holes, but I was aware of this common complaint when I ordered it, and I am *so* glad I didn't let that stop me from buying one when they were easily available, I really have enjoyed mine.
So not saying you were being too picky, it can be frustrating when the knife doesn't meet your expectations, especially when it is a more expensive/highly sought after knife, and maybe you have had a run of bad luck :) . I myself don't own any Sebenza's or customs (yet! :D ) to compare them to, but there are a few Spyderco models that I have paid more money for that I ever would have believed a couple of years ago.
Which Knife, A or B? get Both! (and C, D and E) :)
I think this could be the main reason. The Michael walker, Caly 3.5, Damascus Delica were of the very last ones left from the vendors. The M4 Manix2, I am not sure about.The Deacon wrote: Being late to the party does increase your risk of getting less than perfect knife. Dealers have been known to resell knives that someone else returned, or you may simply be getting the one that kept getting put back on the shelf when customers asked them to pick out a good one for them.
I also believe that I got spoiled by the ones with very minimal imperfections and hoped that I wouldn't get any of the birth defects. To make it clear I do understand that these things happen and can tolerate them to a certain degree. That degree varies between all of us just as our opinions on knives and steels.
The Damascus and Manix are very legitimate complaints. The michael Walker not really and I think If I play around i can get the blade close to where i like which I might have taken care of this morning after playing around more. The Caly 3.5 was mainly the blade grind and centering which could be tolerable. I will have to play with the Sm and see if I can get it to look better.
I know that these issues do not effect the funcionality of the knife and I will be using all my knives as they were intended. I do not have and safe queens. I buy all my knives to use.
On a side note and for fun :) ; does anyone have any pics of their uneven grinds that they tolerated?
CF Balance, CF Caly3 ZDP, Caly 3.5 SB, CAT 440C, Chaparral, Orange Jigged Damascus Delica, Blue Jigged Damascus Delica, BRG Delica ZDP(SOON TO BE G-10!), FG G-10 DragonFly, Gayle Bradley, 2012 Jester, H1 Ladybug Salt Hawkbill w/G-10 scales, Tan Manix 2 M4, MoonGlow Manix 2, C22CF Michael Walker, BRN Millie XHP, Native 5, PM2, All Black PM2, Gray PM2 20CP, Blue PM2 M390, Sage 1, Sage 2, Sage 4, Terzuola, CF Stretch ZDP, UKPK Drop Point
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The Deacon
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Possibly.INFRNL wrote:The Damascus and Manix are very legitimate complaints.
Then again tight is subjective as, to some extent is smoothness, and off center is not all that uncommon. Not sure what "tolerance issue that nicked the blade" denotes, so can't comment on it.
As for the black spots on the Manix jimping, it's probably not corrosion, just an artifact of the way the blades are cut and not terribly uncommon, especially with certain steels.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
I can tell you that this misgrind cannot be missedRedRunner wrote:Embarrassingly, I suspect I haven't looked close enough to notice a bad grind. I probably have 50+ spydercos, so I know I must have some bad grinds, I've just never noticed. I'm going to be a little more observant as I pull them out in the future.
I agreed that centering, tighness/smoothness was not part of the legitimate complaint.The Deacon wrote:Possibly.
Then again tight is subjective as, to some extent is smoothness, and off center is not all that uncommon. Not sure what "tolerance issue that nicked the blade" denotes, so can't comment on it.
As for the black spots on the Manix jimping, it's probably not corrosion, just an artifact of the way the blades are cut and not terribly uncommon, especially with certain steels.
I added the main factors in the OP, but was mentioned earlier, sorry if you did not get the chance to see it.
I will admit that the black corrosive looking stuff is no big deal and has been mentioned somewhere in my threads or posts. Thanks for the clarification of what it probably is.
On the Manix 2: The pivot screw was tightened as much as possible, no further tightening unless we want a stripped screw. There was still excessive lateral blade play (enough to add in another washer, when fully tight)
Damascus Delica: Its posted in my Damascus thread but added to the op. The tolerance issue I believe is on the back spacer or in whatever stops the blade from bottoming out. The blade hits the step on the back spacer which caused the nick.
I believe these are legit complaints, but maybe I should use better/different wording. I was just misfortunate to get a knife that had to be sent back and could not be fixed by the user without voiding the warranty. Spyderco said to send them in, which is what was done.
CF Balance, CF Caly3 ZDP, Caly 3.5 SB, CAT 440C, Chaparral, Orange Jigged Damascus Delica, Blue Jigged Damascus Delica, BRG Delica ZDP(SOON TO BE G-10!), FG G-10 DragonFly, Gayle Bradley, 2012 Jester, H1 Ladybug Salt Hawkbill w/G-10 scales, Tan Manix 2 M4, MoonGlow Manix 2, C22CF Michael Walker, BRN Millie XHP, Native 5, PM2, All Black PM2, Gray PM2 20CP, Blue PM2 M390, Sage 1, Sage 2, Sage 4, Terzuola, CF Stretch ZDP, UKPK Drop Point
I have some pics in the very first post. I tried to capture it the best I could but the pics do not quite show it as bad as it actually is.Niles wrote:Do you have a picture of the misgrind? Just to satiate my curiosity...I'm not doubting your assessment.
as stated somewhere in this thread: towards the tip is less than 1/64" of an inch closer to 1/2 of a 64th. the wide spot near the middle is a solid 1/16" this is far edge to far edge of the line on a tape. The back towards the handle is 1/64"
Granted its pretty a straight grind in a sense, I think it was ground too long or tilted too much on the wide spot and not quite enough on the tip. the back towards the handle is good. The good side is 1/64" along the entire edge and looks **** near perfect.
I also meant to add yesterday that maybe part of the reason why I tend to be so picky is because I am a perfectionist. Granted I am nowhere near perfect; when I do my work; I try to do it as perfect as I can. This goes for anything I do and I know its not always going to be perfect.
CF Balance, CF Caly3 ZDP, Caly 3.5 SB, CAT 440C, Chaparral, Orange Jigged Damascus Delica, Blue Jigged Damascus Delica, BRG Delica ZDP(SOON TO BE G-10!), FG G-10 DragonFly, Gayle Bradley, 2012 Jester, H1 Ladybug Salt Hawkbill w/G-10 scales, Tan Manix 2 M4, MoonGlow Manix 2, C22CF Michael Walker, BRN Millie XHP, Native 5, PM2, All Black PM2, Gray PM2 20CP, Blue PM2 M390, Sage 1, Sage 2, Sage 4, Terzuola, CF Stretch ZDP, UKPK Drop Point
I get the disappointment. The issue with my Lum for instance, it does bother me that the convex portion of the blade tip on the two sides aren't even remotely close. But as I said earlier I love the knife so I am willing to live with it.
In these days of Internet buying these are the kinds of things we just have to deal with. The price is great but we don't get to examine things the way many of us would like to and sometimes the service that we recieve would be better if we were dealing face. One thing is for certain, it puts more pressure on the supplier to make every item perfect and when humans are involved I don't really see that as a possibility. I think in general Spyderco's QC for the price is better than most.
In these days of Internet buying these are the kinds of things we just have to deal with. The price is great but we don't get to examine things the way many of us would like to and sometimes the service that we recieve would be better if we were dealing face. One thing is for certain, it puts more pressure on the supplier to make every item perfect and when humans are involved I don't really see that as a possibility. I think in general Spyderco's QC for the price is better than most.