suedeface wrote:You are probably right, but if I was an officer and found someone carrying a TABLE FULL of weapons, I would put them in hand cuffs as well. IMO that is very unnecessary and suspicious.
Nice try. Doc has experience in law enforcement, knowledge of the law and conducts himself in the RIGHT way. I'm pretty sure Doc would expect big problems with local law enforcement IF he was breaking a law while he was armed. To expect anything else is completely foolish - and you know it.
The problem with most civilians is that they want their cookies AND a glass of milk. We want officers to prevent any possible violence but then don't want them to ever violate all of our "perceived" civil liberties. I won't deny that there have been egregious violations by law enforcement but by and far, officers are not out to get people. Most don't want to spend hours doing all that paperwork anyway. Use your common sense, respect the badge and your fellow citizens and you'll be fine.
suedeface wrote:You are probably right, but if I was an officer and found someone carrying a TABLE FULL of weapons, I would put them in hand cuffs as well. IMO that is very unnecessary and suspicious.
So would I....but then again I have the power to arrest...and you don't....Doc :p :D
"Always Judge a man by the way he treats someone who could be of no possible use to him"
LEO was doing his job & deemed it not in the best interest to let someone drinking illegally to carry a knife. Sucks, but at least you still have a recourse to get your knife back. Once upon a time, back when I was in High School, I was at a beach party with friends. Underage drinking & testosterone a plenty. Female friend wanted me to drive her to a bathroom as she did not want to pee behind a sand dune. Upon coming back we saw Police all over. While we were gone a fight had broken out & someone had gotten cut by a knife. Well it was my misfortune to have a couple of knives on me. One was a cheap switchblade, but definitely illegal. The other was a Pacific Cutlery Balisong with Buffalo Horn scales & a blade ground by Jody Sampson. I was cuffed and put in the back of the cruiser while they sorted it all out. Once it was determined I had nothing to do with the incident & that I'd not been drinking, I was given 2 choices: Donate my knives to the Gilroy, Ca. Weapons Training Facility & go free or go to jail. I opted for go free. Still miss that Balisong, & they are worth a pretty penny nowadays. But I don't miss it enough to have been arrested for it. Phrase I remember from the Army:
"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
"A Delica is still a better weapon than a keyboard and a sour attitude..."Michael Janich
Dr. Snubnose wrote:So would I....but then again I have the power to arrest...and you don't....Doc :p :D
I have the power to complain though Seriously, I saw that EDC pic a while back, and don't know if you really carry ALL that stuff. If you do though, do you really think that is appropriate? Even for a police officer? I still have a hard time believing that you can even carry half of it. Seems uncomfortable. Sorry to derail the thread BTW..
Sequimite wrote:I'm really surprised how many of you believe that one person's/officer's opinion about what is in the "public interest" is a valid substitute for following the law.
Not a substitute... enforcing the actual law. The OP was doing something illegal with a visible weapon. As doc and others mentioned, someone gives up a right to carry a weapon in public when caught doing something illegal. I think the police were more than reasonable and polite.
If I drink I can not carry my gun even with my permit but can still legally carry a knife so I do.Also I cant carry a gun in a restaurant that serves alcohol so I carry a good blade for emergency.I always carry a knife if it is legal.Since I am 40 now and dont hang out in a group and no more tank tops showing off my 'guns and tatts" cops dont notice me.Im just a 40 year old Dad.Getting rid of my Indigo Blue Mohawk helped. Do not drink in public.Keep it in the bar or home.That is what started all of your problems-been there done that haha. Cops were more than fair in my opinion.Hope you get your knife back and learned a life lesson.Oh yeah I think cop should have identified himself before pulling the knife out IMHO. No one is perfect though. At least you were polite respectful-that is always the right thing to do and is how I would have handled it too.Life lesson learned.
Hey guys, just my two cents as a lawyer practicing in Vancouver who worked for a short while earlier in my career as a provincial prosecutor in Vancouver as well.
Without any misbehaviour on the original poster's behalf, the knife should not have been confiscated. However, given the situation in which the original poster was illegally carrying and drinking open alcohol on public transit, the rules change somewhat. From the poster's description the officer took the knife PRIOR to confronting him and his friends. I think that's smart and ensures that had the four drinking guys been belligerent, at least one of them no longer has a potential weapon.
Having determined that he was in violation of the law, the officer took a good look, saw the knife, and over the course of discussing the situation with the young man, decided he didn't want him to continue carrying it after he'd been drinking. The poster says he wasn't drunk; the officer may well have had a different view. Under those circumstances, the officer acted within the law by temporarily keeping the knife.
Just my thoughts based on a one-sided description of events, and with my experience practicing law here in beautiful but rainy Vancouver. Have a great day all -- and let's all try to keep a good name for responsible knife owners.
Think of the risks for law enforcement and the general public, judging from the facts and circumstances you described: a couple of young guys drinking in the skytrain on Saturday night (right?), possibly traveling into town, one is visibly carrying a knife. Saturday nights are very busy nights for cops in the city, dealing with young men who drink and sometimes carry weapons. Usually spent breaking up fights or picking up the pieces after a fight.
captnvegtble wrote:Not a substitute... enforcing the actual law. The OP was doing something illegal with a visible weapon. As doc and others mentioned, someone gives up a right to carry a weapon in public when caught doing something illegal. I think the police were more than reasonable and polite.
Really?? If you get a speeding ticket you can never carry a knife again?
All I've heard is platitudes. I haven't heard a word about an actual legal justification for taking his knife; not even the cop who took it claimed that his action was based on law. I'm not up on BC law so enlighten me.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897
I appreciate your frustration. I think my post a couple above this last one might be helpful and hopefully persuasive, given my experience. Have a great day!
I appreciate your frustration. I think my post a couple above this last one might be helpful and hopefully persuasive, given my experience. Have a great day!
Thanks. I'm afraid I missed your post before.
What ticked me off was the abuse heaped on the OP. As I said in my original post, the officer should have some wriggle room for judgment.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897
What happens if you're in a physical altercation and possess a knife? Similar situation, wrong place wrong time carrying the wrong tool. I'd get lawyer ASAP.
Speeding isn't the same thing as drinking out of a paper sack. Guy is lucky he got a slap on the wrist by a smarmy cop.
Sequimite wrote:Really?? If you get a speeding ticket you can never carry a knife again?
First, nobody took away the OP's knife for life ("never carry a knife again?"). Second, speeding in a car does not impair judgement like drugs or alcohol. But... if someone was driving erratically and the police had suspicion for other illegal behavior (i.e. DUI/DWI), they could perform a search of the car and temporarily confiscate weapons or other potential hazards to the officer or public.
Jay_Ev wrote:It's probably not the best idea to try to obtain legal counsel on an internet forum, especially one like this where everyone is going to be rah-rah pro knife.
Also, we did only hear your recollection of events. Not saying you were being untruthful but you know what they say about there being two sides to every story.
Indeed.
Go to the BC equivalent of a criminal defense attorney.
I just thought I'd add my two cents as a Canadian law student.
When the police detain you, they have a limited right to search you to make sure you aren't carrying a weapon that would put them in danger. As soon as they touch you or ask you to stop, they are detaining you. They need to have probable cause to do this, but in the OP's case, either the public drinking or the visible knife would probably have been enough.
So basically, the cop saw public drinking, detained you and at the same time removed your knife, which he had reason to think was necessary for his own safety.
As far as not giving the knife back, you have to realize that cops are often relying more on common sense or gut feelings than on a perfect understanding of the law. Technically he may have lacked legal authority to confiscate the knife, but come on. Common sense says you don't give a knife to a person who's been drinking. The cops' power comes from acting in the public interest, to preserve order and all that, and this guy wouldn't really have been doing his job if he gave the knife back (from his point of view).
Like many other people in this thread, I'd say things went very well for you. Getting the knife back is a hassle, but things could have been so much worse. I think the main lesson is not to carry a knife when drinking, or at least to carry one with a deep pocket clip.
Seriously, I saw that EDC pic a while back, and don't know if you really carry ALL that stuff. If you do though, do you really think that is appropriate? Even for a police officer? I still have a hard time believing that you can even carry half of it. Seems uncomfortable. Sorry to derail the thread BTW..
