The Strongest lock?

[Blerv]

The Chinook (2?) broke the lock test machine :p . Really, who cares if it rivals another design. Anything in that league is stupid-strong.

[vic]

I also bet the compression lock and (C)BBL are stronger than the original Manix. A back lock doesn't have a stop pin and just isn't as strong of a lock.

lol

unless the original manix had a very weak lockback, and it doesn't look like it does, you must be joking

i don't know how strong the comp lock (not as strong as a good backlock i doubt) is but the bbl? you just must be joking us man

[mongatu]

It sounds like you haven't had much experience with Spyderco's compression lock. :rolleyes:

[The Deacon]

Or the BBL for that matter. Although I'd rate the Manix's midlock up there with them both in terms of strength and superior to the BBL in terms of reliability.

[vic]

no experience, a lot of experience with lockbacks though

i'd like to try a compression lock but the bbl just seems weak

[araneae]

lol

unless the original manix had a very weak lockback, and it doesn't look like it does, you must be joking

i don't know how strong the comp lock (not as strong as a good backlock i doubt) is but the bbl? you just must be joking us man

Have you any research to support your premise or are you just assigning strength based on your impression of the lock?

[jossta]

Ball lock is far from weak. I'm pretty sure the Manix 2 is MBC rated. Not positive though.

[Blerv]

Regardless of our arbitrary perspectives of lock strength those mentioned are very tough. Any MBC/extra heavy duty lock provides 200 lbs/inch or more of strength. In other words without a vice and a big breaker bar you're gonna look silly trying to defeat it.

For those with lock testing equipment and engineerig phd's disregard the arbitrary comment :p .

[Blerv]

On a different note if they CAN engineer a lock as strong as they want and CHOOSE not too you gotta think about that. Why would they cut back on strength?

* cost : you want to pay $200 for a folder to can't break or $70 you also can't?
* weight: generally tough things get heavy or large
* clunky : again, see above
* marketing : Besides bragging rights for sake of marketing the average person sees no benefit. Where do you draw the line? A 2,000 lbs lock on a 16 ounce knife? How strong are your hands? :p

Fact is most the knives we use (Spydie and not) don't get anywhere close this range. Those knives most people use to a fraction of their capacity (i.e. Cutting with edge not spine).

You can put a Rockwell or a Unimog rear end in a Ford Explorer but chances are it's an exercise of ego/stupidity vs logic/need.

[FlaMtnBkr]

lol

unless the original manix had a very weak lockback, and it doesn't look like it does, you must be joking

i don't know how strong the comp lock (not as strong as a good backlock i doubt) is but the bbl? you just must be joking us man

I'm not joking. Do you have hands on experience with any of the locks mentioned? Have you taken them apart to see how they work?

I knew the comment about the original Manix would upset some people but I stick with my claim. The back lock is beefy and is probably close to the strength of the compression lock but I think the later is going to be stronger. Without Spydercos testing data its impossible to know for sure but from an engineering standpoint looking at how the forces are dealt with the compression lock should be able to handle forces better.

[Sequimite]

I trust the compression lock over any of the others. I have no engineering expertise but I have taken them all apart and played with them. It seems to me that one would need enough force to actually crush the steel to make that lock fail.

[FlaMtnBkr]

no experience, a lot of experience with lockbacks though

i'd like to try a compression lock but the bbl just seems weak

Have you held a ball bearing lock knife? Actually used it to get a good feel for it? Or maybe did you watch one video on YouTube of a Manix 2 that had problems? Which is also the only one I have heard of there being a problem and it also had a very loose pivot which means the tolerances got all out of whack and like most things with a sloppy fit, it broke eventually.

I have used my S90V Manix 2 pretty hard and even spine whacked it a few times and it still works like new. There is nothing weak about it unless you are trying to break it with a breaker bar.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

Honestly once a lock reaches 200lbs per inch...who cares which ultimately ends up strongest. At that rating a lock will stand up to anything that can be thrown at it...when used as a knife.

If you are attempting to use a folding knife to do things that a knife isn't made for like batoning or prying...then if it fails, it is YOUR fault, not the fault of the lock or the manufacturer.

If you want to baton or pry...get a fixed blade at the least, or a hatchet and crowbar if you want to use the proper tools.

Everyone wants this mythical knife that will fit comfortably in your pocket, be lightweight, look cool, never need sharpening and can take any punishment thrown at it...well sorry it doesn't, and will never, exist.

[chuck_roxas45]

Everyone wants this mythical knife that will fit comfortably in your pocket, be lightweight, look cool, never need sharpening and can take any punishment thrown at it...well sorry it doesn't, and will never, exist.

Never say never. As late as a decade ago, a lock bearing 200 pounds per inch was probably unthinkable.

[shimage]

Have you held a ball bearing lock knife? Actually used it to get a good feel for it? Or maybe did you watch one video on YouTube of a Manix 2 that had problems? Which is also the only one I have heard of there being a problem and it also had a very loose pivot which means the tolerances got all out of whack and like most things with a sloppy fit, it broke eventually.

But here again, we come back to the reliability of the lock. It doesn't matter how "strong" a lock is if it's too reliant on tight tolerances. I'm not saying this is a problem with the CBBL, just that one should consider reliability and not just how large of a static load a lock can take before breaking. And while it's the not best use of a knife to just go out and try to break it, the fact of the matter is that it's hard to tell how reliable a lock is until you start abusing it.

[jossta]

Any knife can have the pivot get loose, no matter how tough. Just tighten it down before doing anything stupid.

[The Mentaculous]

How the heck does the BBL "look weak"?? It works by the same basic mechanical premise as the compression lock, triad lock, and axis lock, three of the locks that are the most acclaimed as being heavy-duty. All of them work by wedging the locking surface between the tang and the stop pin or backstop, so that putting pressure on the spine causes the pressure to be exerted on said stop-pin/tang.

No offense Vic, but it seems kind of ignorant to make such sure claims about a lock that you have little or no experience with and don't know the design philosophy behind, just because it "looks" a certain way to you.

I personally would be much more likely to trust an expert (like, say, Sal, who has been making knives for 30 years), and the data of a machine that is designed to empirically test lock strength in knives.

That's not saying the the original Manix and the Chinook series don't have incredibly strong locks..possibly stronger than the BBL. But if you understand how the BBL works, what it was strenuously designed and tested to do, I think that it will show itself to be a very heavy-duty locking mechanism as well, regardless of how it "looks" to you.

PS-As far as the single, unreplicated test in which a Manix 2 was broken..any lock can have a failure, especially in a single knife that may or may not be defective or at least loose. I'd put much more value on the testing done by Spyderco, who I'm sure repeatedly break every lock they put on the market, and analyze the data to get a real outcome. You can never get good data from a single "test" with no measurements taken.

[jackknifeh]

How the heck does the BBL "look weak"?? It works by the same basic mechanical premise as the compression lock, triad lock, and axis lock, three of the locks that are the most acclaimed as being heavy-duty. All of them work by wedging the locking surface between the tang and the stop pin or backstop, so that putting pressure on the spine causes the pressure to be exerted on said stop-pin/tang.

No offense Vic, but it seems kind of ignorant to make such sure claims about a lock that you have little or no experience with and don't know the design philosophy behind, just because it "looks" a certain way to you.

I personally would be much more likely to trust an expert (like, say, Sal, who has been making knives for 30 years), and the data of a machine that is designed to empirically test lock strength in knives.

That's not saying the the original Manix and the Chinook series don't have incredibly strong locks..possibly stronger than the BBL. But if you understand how the BBL works, what it was strenuously designed and tested to do, I think that it will show itself to be a very heavy-duty locking mechanism as well, regardless of how it "looks" to you.

PS-As far as the single, unreplicated test in which a Manix 2 was broken..any lock can have a failure, especially in a single knife that may or may not be defective or at least loose. I'd put much more value on the testing done by Spyderco, who I'm sure repeatedly break every lock they put on the market, and analyze the data to get a real outcome. You can never get good data from a single "test" with no measurements taken.

I have taken two Manix2s apart and the BBL looks very strong from inside the knife. The top metal bar is anchored between both liners and the ball bearing rides under it. As the blade opens fully the ball is forced forward on top of a spot cut from the tang holding it open. So, you have the tang, BB, bar on top. The only way I could see this being a weak lock is if the ball doesn't go forward enough. The center of the ball needs to be contacted by the tang. If it isn't far enough forward the tang would be resting on the round portion of the ball and with enough force push the ball back releasing the lock. But I don't see this happening. I'm no expert but it looks like it is a VERY strong and reliable lock.

Jack

[v8r]

I imagine a ball bearing is pretty hard to crush......at least by any man, and if he can why not start crushing coal in between his hands and make some diamonds? That would be a more productive use of his time.

[chuck_roxas45]

I imagine a ball bearing is pretty hard to crush......

I guess it would be easier to move it in between two pieces of metal held together by small screws.