Spyderco Forums

So which do you like better? Peanut butter and jelly? or Jelly and peanut butter?

I would say the pinch-grip flip wrist opening action of a tip down surely awe the audience, while a tip up opening surprises the audience with the tactical thumb flick.

Great discussion, guys. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

In the context of the discussion, you've identified most of what I feel are the critical considerations for choosing a carry style, as well as the advantages and disadvantages of both. Here's a bit of a summary, with some additional points thrown in:

Tip-Down carry works well for large folders--especially Spyderco's, since they offer the option of the Spyder-Drop opening (many folders with thumb studs and disks don't). The reason that tip-down works better with large folders is that if those knives were carried tip-up, when drawn, the hand would be gripping very close to the butt of the handle and be in a poor position for any type of opening or immediate application.

Tip-down can also minimize the chances of the blade opening if it has a weak self-close mechanism, since gravity is helping to keep it closed. However, as noted, knives carried tip-down have more range of motion to open since the back of the blade faces into the open portion of the pocket.

As cool as the Spyder-Drop is, it requires a pinch grip on the blade that uses only the surface area of your thumb and index finger. That small area means that, under stress, you don't have a very secure grip. Also, the grip you achieve once the knife is open does not lend itself to immediate application. You have to adjust your grip before you can use the knife with force. The best way I've found to do that is to draw the knife back into a guard position and brace the butt of the handle against your hip. That provides support as you slide your hand back to a better grip.

Tip-up carry offers security against accidental opening if you carry the knife all the way to the back of the pocket. In that position, the pocket applies pressure to the back of the blade to help keep it closed. This position also allows clearance for your hand to reach into your pocket without abrading it on the handle.

On the draw, tip-up carry allows you to achieve a full grip on the handle with much more surface contact than a Spyder-Drop. That is, providing that the length of the knife, the depth of carry provided by the pocket clip, and the size of your hand allow you to dig deep enough on the draw to achieve a "using" grip before the knife clears the pocket. This is exactly like drawing a handgun, where your goal is to achieve a "firing" grip before you clear the holster. This will always be a dynamic combination of hand size, knife size, and clip placement. If you do all this right, the knife comes out of your pocket in a solid grip, ready for an immediate opening and an immediate application with little or no adjustment of your grip once the blade is out.

As for speed on tip-up draws and openings, in my previous life, I produced this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJC15lEZwx0. All the openings demonstrated in the video are real time--none were sped up in editing. When performed with even better knives--like Spydercos--the results are even more impressive!

Stay safe,

Mike

I like either one, don't really prefer one over the other all the time.

I do like the tip down carry on the Spydercos because my thumb is right there were it needs to be when I pull out the knife the way I pull them out.

I to like the bigger folders with around 4" blades though.

But then I can do a lot of damage with the knife without opening it until I really have too, or really need to put someone away.

Michael Janich wrote:You have to adjust your grip before you can use the knife with force. The best way I've found to do that is to draw the knife back into a guard position and brace the butt of the handle against your hip. That provides support as you slide your hand back to a better grip.

Hey, if MJ himself is doing it like that, I must be doing something right! :D
I never did it conciously but it just "happened" everytime I tried to open the Military fast.

With tip down/blade to front of pocket you can pull the knife out and holding the hole with thumb and index finger flip the knife up so it lands on the top of your hand then flip the handle down and open. This results in a good holding position for some uses with the thumb and index finger still in the hole. Cutting boxes open is one. The hole in the blade really helps with this opening style. The very first time I saw someone open a knife this way was hilarious. I kid came to work one day just as happy as he could be about the new knife he just bought. We were all in the break room watching as he pulled the knife out of his pocket and gripping the blade spine with thumb and finger flipped the knife open. We were all watching as the blade slipped out of his fingers and bounced (opened) across the floor and against the wall. The laughter was deafening. The look on the new knife owner's face was equally as funny. For some unbelievable reason the edge wasn't damaged at all. I was happy to see that.

Jack

I prefer tip up because I prefer deep carry clips.

I have no problem with tip down on my Militaries. I carry them on the right side of my right rear pocket so that the blade is against the side of the pocket. It's possible for a blade to open in either configuration, but at least with tip down you don't drive your hand onto the tip. When I carry a tip up in my back pocket I always turn it around so that the blade is against the side of the pocket.

Tip down for me

1. I tend to carry large folders
2. I've had a tip up knife open in my pocket and cut me (not a spydie)
3. I like the Spyder drop when I am working on something and need to open it one handed...

THG wrote:Well... Then you carry your knives in strange places lol

I don't know how the 710 thing worked in your case (isn't the blade too long to open up in a pocket?), but I guess it did. Can't argue with that because I don't carry my knives in my pockets.

I carry IWB, which I think is the safest (so long as it's not AO, even though I still carry AOs IWB lol). I'll let you guys know if I ever gut myself. Or if I mysteriously stop posting on the forum, assume that I gutted myself :o

The 710 didn't open all the way, but the Axis doesn't have enough closing bias to snap it back shut either, so it was about a third open when I reached for it to cut the cord I was using to tie a load down.

As for IWB carry, an ATR taught me that tip up isn't that great an idea there, either, especially with a Cobra Hood. I really liked that shirt, but at least I got to keep my kidney. (Inadvertant wave opening)

The Deacon wrote:Why do people like clipped carry? To me, the potential it creates for losing knives, "keying" furniture and vehicles, fraying pockets, and cutting yourself and your clothing due to accidental opening, not to mention the increased potential for police attention, outweigh any possible advantages it may have in terms of "deployment speed".

If you carry IWB, the clip is protected by the belt and the shirt (if you don't tuck your shirts in.) Scratching or snagging isn't an issue in that case.

yablanowitz wrote:As for IWB carry, an ATR taught me that tip up isn't that great an idea there, either, especially with a Cobra Hood. I really liked that shirt, but at least I got to keep my kidney. (Inadvertant wave opening)

Tip-up doesn't work for IWB carry, anyway. IWB pretty much requires a pinch grip, and if you do that to a tip-up knife, it requires a lot of readjustment to get it into position to deploy the blade.

THG wrote:If you carry IWB, the clip is protected by the belt and the shirt (if you don't tuck your shirts in.) Scratching or snagging isn't an issue in that case.

But with my love handles, IWB carry would mean unbuckling my belt and unzipping my fly every time I wanted to use the knife. :eek:

My main point in posting as I did was that each of us finds our own way of doing things to be the most logical and tend to view those who do it some other way as doing it wrong. Am sure gun forums have the same kind of interplay between the advocates of upside down cross draw shoulder holsters and the belt/IWB holster crowd.

i dont view either method as wrong. i carried tip down for about 8 years, got a new knife eventually that afforded me the option for tip up and after some experimenting i found i prefered to carry tip up. now to avoid messing with muscle memory and for safety sake i switch all mine to right hand tip up carry. you could go the other way and do this tip down and i dont think its any real disadvantage. you get used to it and then are fine with either way.

MCM wrote:"Why do people like tip down carry?"


I have no idea. :confused:

Some of my older spydercos have to be carried one way, tip up. personally i like the tip down, liner lock as in the military. Just comes down to personal preferences. "apples and oranges" "6 of one, half dozen of another"

Tip up or tip down, there's always the potential for risk when EDCing any knife... it all comes down to situational awareness of the person EDCing the knife to minimize the potential of getting cut.

For pocket clip carry of my :spyder: s, I prefer tip-down since, at least for me, there's less required handling of the knife for me to get my thumb to the Spyderco Round Hole.

For pocket clip tip-up carry of a knife, I'll only do that with a Spyderco folding knife. For those tip-up carry :spyder: s with a cobra hood, I secure the tip on the knife with my finger prior to drawing it from my pocket.

All other knife brands that are set up for tip-up carry with a thumb stud are EDCed in a leather belt sheath.

Michael Janich: just curious, what is your current EDC and how is it situated for carry?
FWIW: I retired as a Leo in 2008 and have tried to follow MBC.

"I have no problem with tip down on my Militaries"

I have no problem with tip UP on my Militaries.

Doesn't matter to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOzZ4xTjh4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIyIpyRpZEg

This may have been mentioned but didn't read all three pages. Whether is a Spyder hole or some other means of opening that's never at the tip of the knife but always at the pivot. As the knife comes up out of the pocket the hand goes around the handle and the thumb flips the hole or button or whatever. The handle is in the natural grip position tip down, at least for front pocket carry. Tip down seems natural and second nature. Tip up seems unnatural and a learned but not automatic response. Obviously Emerson design is the exception but otherwise it seems to hold true. Ok, asbestos shorts donned, let the flames begin.

The only knives I have tip up are my waved folders and ones that do not have tip-down carry options like my Benchmades. I prefer tip up for non-waved knives.

I am left handed, and for those models that doesn't have the option to put the clip on the opposite side the only convenient carry method for me is the tip down.

This allows me somewhat easily draw and open a right-hand clipped knife by grabbing the handle from inside the pocket and reaching the spydie hole with my thumb from outside.